Tick Throw setups and the Scrub Rule


#1

Hey guys.

I was going to post this in the Urien section, but I think it might fit here in the general strategy a little bit better.

Anyway, I grew up with the Scrub Rule. Which means fight with “Honor” (Which in this day and age is literally extinct) and to not use any “Cheap” tactics.

Now, I personally like and stick to the scrub rule. I find matches are much more fun when both players want to play their game instead of just being douchebags. I try not to complain about it but I still become furious when I’m stuck in the corner and I’m thrown 6 times in a row (which completely dumbfounds me, it defies logic to me). I personally feel as if I’m skilled enough to defeat an opponent without using tick throws over and over, that I’m a much better player because of it.

The point of this thing is, of course, is I have problems against tick throw setups (especially with my urien). I find the only way to beat someone like that is to take the momentum for the entire match, throw lots of Aegis and completely lock them in the corner.

So what do you find is the best option to get out of a tick throw setup?

I’ve been really concentrating on teching in that situation, although I’ve found it’s mediocre at best. Even though I know when the throw is coming, throw teching is REALLY inconsistent for me. I know that if I throw first I’m in trouble, but I’ve made sure to check my timing on the tech. It’s so frustrating to time it so carefully, mash throw to get out, and you just go back into this cycle anyway.

Jumping strait up works on occasion, but any Ryu / Ken in that situation will tech any jump attack and Shoryu > Shoryu me, then I’m back in the same situation.

I’ve also tried headbutting my way out, but in a tick throw setup, for some odd reason, my headbutt normally doesn’t come out in time for me to be technically leaving the ground. Since throws are a single frame, there is really no room for error.

Anyway, I look forward to your responses ^^


#2

stop being a scrub

time your headbutts better, throws will never beat heatbutts because headbutts get off the ground the instant you do them. try rh kneedrop if you’re cornered. if a shoto tried to throw you hit them because they get hit standing by headbutts. also be thankful you were getting thrown and not getting hit each time


#3

LOL i didn’t know we still had scrubs that have the bravado to post such a long scrubby rant on srk in this day and age

as you are now you are still years before playing at even a decent level because of your attitude


#4

I play Rock Paper Scissors honorably meaning no cheap Scissors. I think I’m skilled enough to win throwing only Rock and Paper, yet I’m having against other people throwing Scissors. What do I do??

Seriously though, that attitude won’t only get you beaten, but will also get you shit talked on.


#5

I had no intention of ranting. It was supposed to be a question relative to tick throw setups, my views on it, and how you guys get out of it.

Sorry if you thought I was complaining, everyone uses tick throw setups and it’s not like I /ragequit whenever it happens to me.

It’s my personal opinion. The reason I put the Scrub Rule is because it’s something I personally enjoy, no more no less. The reason I choose to fight this way is because I literally hate winning like that. It’s just the way I am, and I’m willing to lose for it. Free wins for you, right? Enjoy 'em

Sorry, I’ll be sure to keep it down to 3 sentences so you can read it. As you are now, you’re still years from your testicles dropping out of your stomach. Quiet now otaku boy, mommy and daddy are talking.

Sorry, I think I did something wrong there. When I said “(Which in this day and age is literally extinct)” I meant no one cares or talks about honor in fighting games since the days of asian gangsters who want to “take it outside” every time you throw once in a match.

Anyway, I don’t mind if people call me a scrub, because I choose to think like one. I can either grow this way and be able to fight evenly with everyone, or I can go home and cry under my bed.

What I was asking of course is the best option for when you sit in the corner and someone wants to work on their tick throw setups.

Against shorter characters, attempting a knee drop is what I normally do. Against anyone of Shoto height or higher, the RH kneedrop gets parried, then I get thoroughly raped.

I was wondering if teching is the only good option. I’ve been studying RX’s matches for this particular situation, and it seems as if a tech really is the best option.


#6

why do you play?

if someone in the corner is blocking your attacks or guess parrying on wakeup every time, you’re not gonna throw them repeatedly? if they get up blocking high every time, you’re not gonna sweep them repeatedly? if they try to meaty you everytime, you’re not gonna reversal dragon punch/wakeup super them?

the list goes on and on. go ahead and be honorable. if you’re not gonna do what it takes to win, someone else will, and you’ll always be a loser.

skill is not refusing to use a tactic that you consider cheap. It is to win in the most efficient manner possible. Someone will find a way around your “cheap” tactic, and you in turn will find a way to counter the counter. This is how you get better.

and you were already given a few good options, namely headbutt and RH kneedrop but you choose to ignore them. here’s a hint: if they parry in anticipation of your headbutt/kneedrop, change it up. Throw them into the corner, aegis, and win.

of course its much easier just to ban repeated tick throws from your matches.


#7

playing the way you do actually makes the person you’re playing against worse. free wins, yea sure. but once someone gets conditioned to your “scrub rules” and then faces someone who’s actually playing real 3S they won’t be prepared to deal with it. you make the entire 3S player pool weaker(including yourself) by playing that way. thats not fair to anybody that plays you.

edit: on that note, play however you want. just don’t expect everyone to take you seriously


#8

Chose to ignore? They’re the options I put on my first post.

Headbutt out of a throw is not a bad option. It’s very rarely parried, and it works alot of the time. Most people when trying to lock you into the corner will throw something like a cr. lk or just a close lp. Cr. lk, I’ll hop over, but they have more then enough time to hit with a shoryu or a pre-emptive throw before / right as I hit the ground. Close lp will outright beat the headbutt itself, due to it’s less - then - spectacular priority. So, while it is a fair option, it only beats 1 situation, losing to the 2 examples I gave and any other situations where the opponent throws an attack. Therefore, not a great choice.

RH. Kneedrop is the option I use most of all, but is also the most risky. While a good option, it loses out to any standing moves and anything remotely meaty. Also, on a standing shoto or taller class, RH kneedrop will not go over, even if the opponent throws immediately when I rise. Throw animations are short enough to let a mediocre opponent block and a decent player parry a RH kneedrop on the way down. When blocked, cr. mk > super will destroy me on any shoto. Chun can cr. mk > sa2, Yun can strong fierce palm > genei, Makoto can karakusa, etc. See the trend? You win under only 1 circumstance, losing in every other situation while the opponent gets a free super / monster combo off.

If I had been “ignoring these options”, I would definitely not have posted here.

I’ve been spending most of my time learning from Cruise, Flexo, and I’ve been talking alot of theory fighter with Furious Roy. From what I understand, the only throw setup I need with Urien is strait from a headbutt, and I tend to use that more for teching purposes anyway.

This argument is actually interesting, and I had come to a similar conclusion before. Friends of mine that also play online play much differently from myself. Their answer from a jump in ANYTHING is a throw, whenever I’m even remotely close to them they whiff 2 throws in a row simply because they’re mashing their buttons.

But even after our matches, that never actually stops. Until we exchange our “ggs”, they will repeatedly keep doing that throw game they play. They might play “real third strike”, but does that not give me an advantage? If I spend all my time learning how to play a different kind of 3s, while all my opponents try to play a constant “let’s throw you 12 times” 3s, in the end does that not create a good situation for myself? Sure, I might not be able to win that much NOW, but later on it could turn into a very good advantage. It’s worked in other games, it might just work now.

I know it seems offensive to alot of players, but I really don’t mean it as some kind of offensive rant against any other player. Regardless of my personal thoughts, a win will always be a win. The game does not recognize the way you paly, it recognizes the results. That goes to your record, and that’s what people care about. And that’s what people want to see.

Edit This wasn’t only supposed to be about Uriens options. I posted it here in general chat because I want to hear what everyone, regardless of character, likes to do in this situation.


#9

1.There is no “honor” in 3S because it’s a fucking game
2.Don’t get trapped in the corner
3.???
4.Profit


#10

jesus christ. everything people suggest you either ignore or shoot down. you are aware that you have multiple options? your opponent cannot do 10000 things at once, nullifying all your options.

MIX IT UP and ADAPT. people give you suggestions and you just give excuses about why they would not work.

I gave you a very simple one: throw them in corner if they try to parry your kneedrop. and you state some ridiculous shit about a pre-emptive c.lk or w/e. well if they do that, down parry, headbutt. or block the low lk, crouch tech the throw. then dash up, low parry, high parry, throw them in corner, crouching fierce, whatever. use your options. you dont have to do the same thing (kneedrop) everytime.

you start parrying the lk, they’ll start throwing your parry attempt. that’s when you can do a headbutt. see where this is going?

ramza tells you to time your headbutt better. perhaps he knows what he’s talking about?

instead of complaining about a very minor aspect of the game, work on getting better. you’re only getting hit by THROWS. so if you wisen up and start teching properly, people are gonna start dashing back, c.mk super, 3, 4 times in a row. hey if it works, why not? is that cheap too?

no because good third strike is proven. your different (AKA shitty AKA refusing to throw 12 times even if it works) 3rd strike will be beaten easily by anyone that knows what they’re doing. RX doesn’t get thrown 12 times in a row. Copy what he’s doing. Learn how to tech. Unless you want to be original.

this game has been out since 99, you think you’ll beat good players with a “new” style?


#11

I’m sorry?

I wasn’t aware I was shutting down any suggestions. The only suggestions I got were “Stop thinking like that”. Doesn’t really help.

The things suggested were:
A) Headbutt
B) RH Kneedrop
C) Throw Tech
D) Guess Parry

The only thing I didn’t mention myself is guess parry, but it’s not like I just completely gapped on the fact that I’m playing third strike instead of kof 98.

As far as I know;

Headbutt

Wins Against:
Throw

Headbutt loses to:
Standing attack
Crouching attack
Parry

The good part of Headbutt is that it’s safe on block. But an opponent looming over your head in the corner is not about to block when you wake up, will he? Also, any short characters will be too short for the headbutt to hit. If they’re short, I’m not about to headbutt, but it’s still something to consider.

RH Kneedrop

Wins against:
Short / Crouching character throw

Loses to:
Shoto+ height character throw
Attack(Whiff or hit)

RH Kneedrop is a surprisingly weak option in my opinion vs. anyone shoto height or taller. If the opponent whiffs a throw, whiffs an attack (which is nearly impossible), or tries to parry, there is easily enough time to see a RH Kneedrop. You have enough frames to block and more then enough to parry. Once that happens, you eat the biggest combo they’ve got. It might be worth getting out of the corner for such a risk to happen, but it still loses in alot of places.

Guess parry in the corner can either save you or get you murdered, it depends on if you want to take the risk. It might actually be the best option though, because it is a 50 / 50 situation. In all the others, your chances of getting out are much smaller (wins once out of something like 4 situations, etc)

Did I ever even HINT that Ramza doesn’t know what he’s talking about? I don’t know if he knows the frame data (Hell, wish I did) but I’m more then willing to take his word for it. He’s pretty much the only one here who gave me something to work with. Ramza’s been giving me his opinion on what I said fairly. I respect what he’s said, and tried to tell him what I thought of his reply. I’ve also pointed out multiple time that what I wrote isn’t meant to offend anyone. It seems to have offended you quite a bit, not sure why, but you’re free to do and think what you want.

Just in case you never actually read through what I’ve been saying and skimming through it: THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT THREAD. Let me repeat that one for you.

THIS THREAD IS NOT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING!

This thread was a QUESTION, regarding YOU, in the CORNER, being raped by TICK THROW SETUPS. How do YOU, as a player, regardless of character, get OUT of the corner?

Why would I want to be exactly like RX? Sure, RX is great, but he’s human. Even if he was trained by Kuroda (I don’t know if that’s fact or not) he’s still made up setups himself. He still has his OWN parry skills, and he knows what he knows because he studied it. He wasn’t a computer that someone just programmed the “greatest Urien” code into.

And are you telling me you’re going to magically quit 3s? ST is still being played, what makes you think a game this good is going to be cancelled and removed from arcades now that sf4 is out?

You’re right, RX doesn’t get thrown 12 times in a row. Do you know why? It couldn’t possibly be because he had measured all the options, gathered experience from that, and then put that experience into practice. He couldn’t have possibly played theory fighter with another great player like kuroda or ANYONE that was better then him at the time.

I don’t know why you’re getting so worked up. The hate coming from your posts is clear as day. I was trying to express an opinion. I’m sorry that opinions don’t matter anymore these day, but I asked a question so that new information might be shared with me. The new information I’ve received from this is that headbutts do apparently beat throws, as long as the headbutt is performed on the precise frame. Thank you for that Ramza.

I’ve written more then enough in this one, sorry to anyone who’s actually reading all of this.


#12

guess right…:woot:

Also I find it ironic that someone who doesn’t want to play “cheap” would pick Urien


#13

Why???


#14

Got to love my rep being raped from “bitching”. Oh well, admin abuse isn’t new to me.

Urien’s combos do a ridiculous amount of damage, but hitting the combo itself is much more difficult then playing Chun / Yun / Duds / Makoto and all that. Urien’s quite unsafe, but definitely playable.

I pick Urien for a simple reason. I play for fun. I find Urien to be the most fun character in the game.

This game is much less strategic then anything else I’ve ever played. It’s so simple to play balls out.


#15

look, you’re obviously new at the game. your posts demonstrate this. yet you come in here with a know it all, arrogant attitude, and a rant about why its ok to think like a scrub, in 2008, on srk, of all places.

and you’re wondering why you don’t get a warm reception.

basically it breaks down to this:

us: hey! tech throws!
you: noooo i can’t do it

us: hey RH kneedrop!!
you: nooo it gets parried

us: hey headbutt at the right time!
you: no its too hard, i can’t time it.

you ask for suggestions you got them buddy. no hate from my side.


#16

Dude, all I’ve been doing is weighing situations. Since you couldn’t be new to the game, as “proven” by your attitude, you’ve obviously thought over certain situations and thoroughly weighed all your options before.

I play 3d fighters, I’ve never been good at games like third strike. That’s why I’m asking for something I might not have ever thought of before. Maybe Urien has an option select? Characters like Chun can SGGK right out of that situation, I had hoped there was something like that for Urien. It’s quite obvious that SGGK doesn’t exist for Urien, and apparently he has 0 option selects for this situation.


#17

well first of all, you should have put this in the character specific urien threads because your posts about tick throws really doesn’t count as “strategy” because the answer is obvious. The key to winning any game is to read your opponent and counter. You say they do the same thing over and over, which implies that you’re letting yourself get thrown. I lock down people in the corner all the time with Necro and people still find a way out of the corner. either parry the hit before the throw, tech throw, or just gtfo of the corner.

You also said you consider yourself a much better player than the “douchebags” because you don’t use tick throws, but if you get raped by them, How exactly are you better if you lose? I personally think your scrub rule fits you as a scrub because only scrubs complain about play styles and bash on other players.


#18

I was apparently implying much more then I meant to. Either that or I worded it wrong.

If I had said I consider myself to be a better player then the people who beat me with ANY tactics, then I was wrong to say so. The computer recognizes winner and loser, no more no less.

I enjoy fun matches. I personally cannot find myself having fun when someone is willing to go so far as to spend all of his time throwing until his lp and lk buttons are broken. (Please don’t take that analogy seriously.)

And yes, the way I think makes me a scrub no matter how you look at it. Thing is, I don’t mind being a scrub. I prefer to fight in a way that let’s me enjoy the game I’m playing. I simply can’t do that the way most people can.

And I agree, this really should be in the Urien thread. I had hoped people that played different characters were going to tell me how they got out of corners with their character of choice, but so far it’s been entirely about Urien’s options.

For the record, I really did have no intention of complaining :S. And this is probably the 6th time apologizing for people thinking I meant to bash other players.


#19

be formless…shapeless…like Bodler…now you put Bodler into a cup…he comes the cup you put Bodler into a bottle he becomes the bottle you put Bodler into a teacup he becomes the teacup…now Bodler can crash or he can flow…be Bodler homie


#20

There’s a ken player at my arcade who almost broke HP and HK by excessively taunting after landing SA III >_> I wouldn’t be surprised if someone broke the throw buttons