I know tier lists are ten a penny, but just thought I would post this. Iplaywinner has a tier list up, putting Abel in 3rd spot (although a couple of the matchups dont quite add up).
Reason I’m posting this is just to ask what you think about the ratings for each matchup. Do you agree with all of them? Eg I seem to find it an uphill battle vs Blanka, but the tier list has this 6/4 in Abels favour.
Pretty sure Abel vs Blanka has always been in Abels favour 6-4.
So there isn’t anything new there.
Him and Bison did shoot up the tier list though, and Sagat fell like a rock.
Rufus is holding his ground though, even with the down grades, did they buff much from him? As far as I know he only got a few nerfs (damage on EX Snake Strike and less invincibility on EX Messiah/Jesus Kick and I think something happened to his dive kick if I remember correctly?)
Anyway, Abels few buffs do help him out, and EX Falling Sky seems like a valid option to me now so I use it.
I think Abel is pretty decent and he might even be really high tier but this list is flawed. When you say a match is 3-7 or whatever I feel it should actually be that way (at some level of play). This entire list is based on opinions. These guys know what they’re talking about but these numbers represent how they, as players, feel about the match. So where you see Abel, it actually says Combofiend (for example).
All meaningful tier lists are based on opinion, and I know it wont be the 100% perfect list, which is why I’ve posted it for discussion :shy:
rufus u2 completely changes some of his match ups. ryu and sagat can’t fireball him to death. akuma’s demon flip bs and hurricane kick crossups gets u2. jump back fireball gets u2. u1 still have the same comboability although the priority on his j.hk seems a bit weaker.
invincibility still feels the same with the ex messiah kick. except the damage is cut in half. dive kick does 20 points less damage.
The jump does look strange at a glance because Abel still has the fundamental flaws that he had in SF4 we can say he got EX falling sky buff but I was never one to say Abel hasn’t got good anti airs.
TL;DR Abel does well against most of the new characters and the shotos in general have got worse due to the same risk but less reward on shoryukens making life easier
Rufus - Still 6-4 sounds right the fat guy will still be very hard for us
Akuma - The match up has certainly changed I used to think it was 7-3 against a very good Akuma but 6-4 with no loop and demon flip throw OS shenanigans seems about right. I’m not sure about how much Akumas damage has been nerfed too…?
Dictator - This match up is still 6-4 to Bison imo what has changed? You wouldn’t really use breathless in this match up because ultra 1 catches teleports and the only other change I see is st.hk for Bison does less damage good shit but not enough to say 5.5 in Dic’s favour
Boxer - This match up hasn’t changed either has it? I’m unsure of Balrogs nerfs but playing one today it all seems the same bs, Breathless seems good in this stops the neutral jump hp/throw mix up and beats meaty j.hp’s always been 6-4 to Boxer in my mind and ain’t changed.
Ryu - In are favor by 5.5 now? Nah, Ryu has got weaker but he still has all the shit that made it diffcult for us except his new srk is shit so he takes risk throwing it out for even less reward than in sf4 and no trade ultras now. Don’t see how breathless helps over Ultra 1 but meh. 5-5 or still 6-4 for Ryu IMO
Chun - 5-5!!! No way shit is still one of our hardest match ups for Abel her damage has barely been touched on her pokes and she can now ultra out of nothing HOWEVER Breathless on reaction to cr.hk, st.hk or st.hp feels good man.
Ibuki - 5-5 shit I don’t know momentum match but I think we have more options to escape than Ibuki does against us think its 6-4 in our favour but yeah not sure…
Zangief - Got easier haven’t played any Zangiefs lately so I dunno seems like it is still fucking bullshit though 6-4 or 7-3
Honda - Used to be a nasty 6-4 in Hondas favour but being able to punish headbutts is good shit with U2 don’t think its a 5-5 though think its still in hondas favour with that big ass damage output still intact.
Blanka - Same shit we still win 6-4
Sagat - 5-5 or 6-4 in our favour tbh sagat is pretty easy for Abel now get that one knockdown and go to town. He has to take the risk of hp TU which does shit damage now but if it gets baited he is fucked since he has less health and our damage is still gdlike. st.lk being double hitting is good shit and no more TK traps means that this shit is pretty free. You still have to respect the 2 bars though.
Guile - Been facing Guiles recently and damn this shit is harder imo recovery time for guile is ridiculous in fact I got knocked out by a guile in a tournament 2 weeks ago Dimenion came london with new guile and was ripping shit up I’m unsure bout this match up breathless helps but shit new Guile ain’t easy
T.Hawk - Ain’t played no T hawks but from what you lot have been saying we lose not gief lose but we still lose
Juri - From what I’ve seen it is in our favour because her zoning ain’t shit for our rolls and her health is low but her ex pinwheel is a bitch
ELF - Always thought this was 6-4 for us dunno how it could have changed, what is breathless like after getting knocked down? how many options armour break and how many win? His ultra 2 is good though
Dhalsim - Shit has got worse for him imo just because of the new ultra he teleports i activate ultra 2 it auto corrects hold it 'till he floats down and its a wrap dunno if it adds .5 though + his new ultra grabs rolls…
Cammy - What has changed? 6-4 in her favour
Fei - 5-5… Shit 5-5 no clue tbh, need to play starnab or suttin
Ken - 5.5 in our favour? I’m unsure tbh don’t know why can’t give you any science on this match up but yeah I don’t think so
Seth - 6-4 yep, guy is a big threat once his mix up gets going but we do so much damage that its cool for us + he can’t zone us as well as he can many other characters
Viper - 6-4 in our favour nothing much has changed can breathless get BK’s that cross over that like make it auto correct?
DJ - seems like a Guile with worse normals to me they say 5-5 but I would assume that its in our favour more 6-4 ish
Dudley - At first I thought Dudley was frrrreeeee I still think it is easy but it ain’t free his mix up is potentially more devastating than ours but we have ex tt to beat over head and sweep (maybe not max range sweep but dudders sweep range is shit). He has maybe the worst footsies in the game but normal st.hp beats all our normals except f.mk that beats him clean, st.mk/ex jet upper beats all of our jump ins and st.hk can counter poke f.mk so really the match up all relys on who can out footsie the other to get a knock down and then mind fuck the shit out of each other still think Abel wins 6-4 though
Adon - No clue ain’t played any… Damage output is on our side I guess…
Cody - He has the tools to keep us out rocks/fake rocks, sick pokes and decent anti airs but as soon as we get a knock down its GG his options are jump, back dash, ex zonk, block… That is it I’m unsure if ex zonk is safe on block but whatever. Once you knock down just go in and don’t let him keep you out again. EX COD seems pretty good in this because it goes through rocks and pokes. F.mk and st.lk are good in this match up st.lk kills off his cr.lk lp CU footsies. EX TT beats out his cr.lp f.mp frame trap shenanigans
Gouken - Nothing much has changed as far as I’m aware of it is still pretty easy
Claw - He has got better but we still have the same advantages
Rose - No clue what has changed still a 6-4 I guess so
Gen - Gen has got shitter due to his links + it was always 6-4 imo anyway so nothing has changed to make Gen have an advantage or a better chance
Hakan - He ain’t as bad as I thought he would be but after a knock down he has like 0 options I just neutral jump when he ain’t got ultra, when he does it is kinda tricky his footsies aren’t very good and his slide is punishable on block 6-4.
Guy - I don’t know I can’t say but his reversal isn’t very good so already it leans towards Abel
Makoto - Biggest momentum match in the game this match up is NOT easy once you get knocked down but mid range we win giving us the advantage, both characters are as deadly as each other after a knock down though.
Sakura - her new ultra is good for her but we still win, lol @ getting hit by those resets now
Dan - new ultra is nice for him but we will still take it
Biggest sentence I’ve ever looked at.
Lol.
Don’t even care if no one reads it, it was good to write for myself even. As I was reading it I came up with mad shit that I should test.
I read a good amount of it, but no periods always screw with my flow.
For the record, the only part of Falling Sky that got buffed was the hit box. EX FS still gets stuffed because its invincibility and active frames do not overlap.
here’s my own IMO list of Abel matchups in alphabetical order. I’m sure Abel is one of the best characters in the game now. Abel’s number is first
Abel - 10-0
Adon - 5-5. Adon has a shoryu, good pokes, and has a lot of options for getting in on Abel
Akuma - 4.5-5.5, no more loop, demon mixups toned down, damage on big FADC combos toned down… while Abel has stayed the same
Balrog - 6-4. Breathless removes any guessing about which rush punch Rog is doing, beating them all with its sheer speed. Rog is still free on wakeup.
Blanka - 6-4. Same as SF4
C. Viper - 5-5. Still the most exciting matchup in the game
Cammy - 4-6. At least cannon strike FADC cannon strike is toned down but this is still a frustrating matchup. Breathless helps, but enough to make it even? I don’t think so
Chun Li - 5-5. Chun health, meet Abel damage. Her wakeup is still a liability in this one.
Cody - 6.5-3.5. This guy is too free on wakeup and defense and has a limited offensive game. He does lots of damage and stun, but so does Abel. Rocks are weird to get around until you realize you can roundhouse roll through them on reaction and punish…
Dan - 5-5 because that annoying knee and Dan’s new FADC ultra
Dee Jay - no comment but I think Abel will end up winning
Dhalsim - 6.5-3.5. Breathless makes this match even worse for Sim than it was already
Dudley - 6-4 because of Dudley’s lacking defense
E. Honda - 6-4, same as SF4
El Fuerte -4-6. Fuck Ultra Spark. His mixup is so incredibly dangerous when he has it
Fei Long - 4-6. Fei’s pressure game is still tenacious and difficult for Abel to punish
Gen - 6.5-3.5. I thought this was a 5-5 with the slightest edge to Abel in vanilla, but now Gen has gotten hammered with the nerf bat. mk loops cost meter instead of building it, Oga invincibility has apparently been reduced, his jumps are no longer difficult to AA, and Gen’s damage output is still low.
Gouken - 6.5-3.5. Gouken sucked in regular SF and only got worse in Super. His damage output is still ridiculous but with the added recovery to EX demon flip throw, his safest escape move vs. Abel is now not so safe… his only fully invincible reversal is now EX Tatsu and throwing one out is the equivalent of doing a wakeup ultra sooooo eat it Gouken
Guile - 5-5
Guy - no comment but I have a feeling Abel wins handily
Hakan - no comment
Ibuki - 6-4. Abel damage helps win this one. Ibuki’s oki is effective and relatively safe, but easy to escape once you recognize all the patterns, and Abel can bully her standing up because of her awful footsies
Juri - no comment
Ken - 4.5-5.5. Ken is still a harder matchup than Ryu for Abel
Bison - 5-5.
Makoto - I like to say 7-3 because on paper, Makoto is far worse than Abel in every way but due to lacking experience I’ll go with "no comment"
Rose - no comment
Rufus - 4-6. Same as vanilla
Ryu - 5.5-4.5. Same as vanilla except Roo does less damage now and shoryu FADC ultra isn’t quite as threatening
Sagat - 6-4. Sagat can’t rush down as effectively (needs more testing) and like Ryu his shoryu FADC ultra isn’t quite as big of a deal anymore.
Sakura - 6-4, same as vanilla
Seth - depends on the Seth. Zoning runaway Seths lose, rushdown Seths win. Guys who can play both styles win, 6.5-3.5 for Seth. Damage isn’t enough to even up the fight when you have as many options as Seth does in the hands of a capable player.
T. Hawk - no comment but its not quite as bad as the Gief matchup. Maybe?
Vega - 6-4. Same as vanilla.
Zangief - 3-7. Same as vanilla.
While I’m not good or recognized by any measure and thus lacking in credibility, I’d say go ahead and say 7-3 over Mak sakeido. I played Abel for about 90% of vanilla’s life-span (the other 10% Akuma) and only wanted to play Mak in Super… After roughly 100 games with her on XBL and probably 50ish games in local casuals I have decided to stay as far away as possible from her because she’s literally the same character as Abel except vastly worse in every possible way. This is also my way of saying I’m coming back to playing Abel… not that anyone ever knew me or would have known that I was gone XD.
I honestly am not sure about the Adon match. Standing MP puts that fucker on the ground, and that’s where you want him to be.
Yeah, that move is godlike for this match. On a side note, I’ve never seen a strategic/skilled Adon player. All I see are Jaguar wall dives and Rising Jaguars everywhere. Shit gets old.
Dan is actually a problem though he may be a joke character but that knee works very well against Abel playing Ryan Harts Dan was a learning experience that made me realise that the match up is not easy at all + now he can fadc ultra so what is lol worthy about that?
Ryu - Like I said I think its 5-5 tbh he still has cr.mk and his solid combos but the risk reward for shoryuken has changed
Sagat - 6-4 in our favour I really think so now Sagat can’t j.mp and tk pressure us to death which is one of the main reasons why the match up was 6-4 in vanilla (even then many called it only 5.5). His health is worse now whilst our damage is pretty much the same, his damage is much less whilst our health is still high. Risk reward for TU has changed to our advantage. Only thing that keeps us out is st.hk and that isn’t that much of a problem. The match up was all about respecting the 2 bars and now we can respect that shit way less.
u gotta be trolling me, dan is better than ryu and sagat. nice joke guys! u got me!!! seriously, u trolling me right? playing ryan hart was not easy, it wasnt because of dan.
Wait, fei is 4-6 because his “pressure game is still tenacious and difficult for Abel to punish”, but Dudley is 6-4 because he has limited reversal moves?Well, his presure game IS WAYYY better than Fei’s.Also , Dudley players can also say Abel is easier because of lack of defense.I am not saying the matchup may not be as you said, just pointing out that some of the explications to WHY the matchups are like that are not the best.
Nah. As soon as Cody gets an EX, EX Zonk Goes through all of Abel’s options on Cody’s wakeup. That’s all he needs to get away. While Ex Zonk is hella punishable, just the fact that he has it is enough to be annoying. If he has 3 EX’s, beware, Ex Zonk FADC Ultra 1 is quite damaging. His offensive game is not that limited but still, that’s not where Cody will be in this matchup. He wants to keep Abel away, and is pretty good a it. Good pokes, lots of safe normal moves, many traps and normal Zonk is decent against Abel since Abel rarely hits low. And fake Rock > Marseille. It’s a matchup in favor of Abel, but I’d say 5.5, maybe 6 but no more.
Seriously bro, read the Sagat match up section then read the Dan section
Notice how half of both posts for Sagat from Eric Kim and HAV talk about the importance of TU FADC and how much you have to respect it the fact that risk and reward for TU has drastically changed along with TK pressure not very effective any more the match up really has swung in Abels favour IMO. Even health wise Sagat can’t take was many risks as he could in vanilla.
I’d also like to point out this bit of the Dan section
/
As for Cody I think it is 6-4, 6.5 might be pushing it. I agree with the limited offense (especially since his fame traps get EX TT’d) and the fact that he is free on wake up (ex zonk is good but it ain’t no TU fadc ultra, shit… 3 bars ain’t a joke). It is the pokes and the general safeness of Cody that make me think it is only 6-4.
you just don’t know
Dudley has crap footsies and has a tough time getting in, even on Abel. You have to be careful for s.rh xx machine gun or something similar to catch one of your pokes but that move doesn’t have many active frames and lasts forever so you can whiff punish it relatively easily. lp machine gun =/= rekka when it comes to pressure. Dudley needs to burn EX to have invincibility, while Fei always has a dragon kick available to him. Fei’s c.mp and c.mk are also deadly pokes, so on so forth.
Dudley’s damage output is much higher, no question, but I dunno… I don’t think too highly of him
Zonk is terrible. You can safe jump it, do a meaty c.lk option select like you would against headbutt (except its even easier), its mad punishable on block, and you can mess with Cody to the point he can’t even get a reversal EX Zonk out.
His pokes aren’t great, he can’t hit confirm from a low and Abel can punish jab criminal usually, his walk speed sucks, his throw game is weak so fishing for counter hits is difficult, and so on. Fake rocks do not own roll… the animation is still 30+ frames long so unless you were planning on rolling directly up to him, he can’t even reach you to take his free throw and his c.lk probably won’t reach you because the hitbox ends at his ankle. The proper way to punish a roll w/rocks is to hold the button and charge a jab rock and throw it meaty when Abel recovers from the roll but think about how hard of a time normal fireball chars have zoning Abel… then think of one of the weirdest fireballs in the game, and try zoning Abel with that. Doesn’t work out that well.
I’ve only actually played a few Cody vs. Abel rounds against Strider but I gotta say… Cody feels completely outgunned in that matchup