Tiers for obscure games


#2081

How do you play with enemys? I know K’s and Dolf are broken, but only played the Snes version.


#2082

The SNES version is the only one =) here is the boss cheat, among others:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588812-tuff-e-nuff/cheats


#2083

I’ll try.

PS: Try it: Vortz. As soon as you get one grab, the rest of the fight is just push 6+A


#2084

BURNING RIVAL

S: Asuka, Jackson
A: Arnold, Shingen, Bill
B: Craze, Mr. Chin
Santana Tier: Santana

(You can crouch cancel basically every normal in the game)

Asuka
Extremely effective defensive tank with a variety of options. Decent projectile, only character that can teleport. Has the most special moves in the game including a divekick and a flashkick. Possess great pokes in her crouching kicks and to top it off she has a chain toss move similar to Scorpion’s from MK. It instantly stuns you + she has a very easy infinite off of it.

Jackson
Knee smash is an almost instant move that knocks down on hit and can counter alot of things but its Unsafe on block. His normals are very good, especially crouch lk which is around 2 frames startup. He has the best uppercut in the game and great combos off his launcher.

Arnold
Basic shoto with very good normals and his fireball is probably the best in the game. Invincible uppercut really helps people get off him and he has a giant damage combo with his launcher. Can hold his own against anyone.

Shingen
Shingen is an oddball character. He has the best poke in the game with his sword swipe (qcb+p) which reaches about half the screen or more and he has slow fireballs that can be used for decent zoneing. His throw is unsafe, so he has to rely on the basics more than most when it comes to playing offensively.

Bill
Bill has some of the most heavily damaging combos in the game, an array of different throws all of which are really good, and several setup shenanigans. His throw range is the biggest in the game to the point he can throw you out of jumps. He also possesses the power lariat: probably the best rushdown move in the game (the lp version is safe on block from the tip).

Craze
Craze has The best command normal in the game: a backfist that reaches about half the screen and comes out fairly fast. The Final Elbow is safe on block and moves him very far forward. This is complimented by one of the best throws in the game which he can douche out after a blocked elbow dealing massive damage. He also has the Overhead Crush which, contrary to its name, isn’t an overhead but hits twice and is completely safe on block. It works wonders for chip damage. allso has a low hitting projectile with fast startup. Very solid character but he just is not as cheap as anyone above him.

Mr. Chin
Mr. Chin has bad normals but the same amount of specials Asuka has (7!) including a command grab, a decent fireball, a great half screen chipping poke, and Hurricane Kicks that can crossup on wakeup in the corner. He struggles against most everyone except Craze,Bill and santana because his fireball is slow and he just can’t cheap out health like others can. His command grab doesn’t even do more damage than a regular grab from most characters. To make it even worse, his normal throw is unsafe.

Santana
Santana has decent specials and normals but falls flat in most match-ups because everyone above him except Bill has a projectile and most of his throws are unsafe. His only real saving grace is the Flying Cross Chop which is basically just the Final Elbow except slightly safer. His only other strength is that his crouching hp is one of the best crouch canceled normals in the game.

EDIT: Some stuff after messing around with the game again

Jacksons knee smash although really cheap fast And cuaseing knockdown isnt exactly as safe As i thought it was So its a high risk/High reward attack hes Still Solid and deserves his spot But hes not as solid as originaly Thought.

Normals in this game seem to hit Different on different chars much like in fight Fever Where An attack would hit low against one char But mid on another.


#2085

Anyone got tiers for WWF In Your House?

I only gave it a cursory look, but it certainly has some flashbacks to WWF Wrestlemania. Undertaker has the same projectiles from before, Ultimate Warrior has a combo-starting punch rush that calls to mind Doink’s buzzer, and Bret Hart seems very close to his previous version.

In general, more characters have a range game, and damage seems higher than in the original, making the buildup for long combos seem irrelevant. The COMBO meter carries between rounds, but since the only way to set it up is to become vulnerable to reversals, it’s like you’d only ever use the meter for Second Wind.

*EDIT: Investigated further and made some notes:

[details=Spoiler] Bret and Owen Hart seem like the scariest characters. I’ll elaborate on why, but first things first:

-Zoning in this game is pithy. Long projectile startup and recovery means they’re easy to sidestep.
-Many more characters have button-up Razor/Doink-style attacks in this game. Any which enable combos are a plus.
-Pushblocking (BLK+LP) is interesting, since you can “reversal” with it in some circumstances or pressure near the ropes. Everyone’s Push has different startup/recovery, but put simply: Vader’s is fast, Bret’s is long, Taker’s is ass. Ahmed, Goldust, and HHH recover slowly when Pushed, Shawn and Taker recover fast. Everyone else floats somewhere in between. This means different matchups change the corner game greatly.
-Most close normals start small combos, or sometimes infinites. This is important–combos are arguably more reliable, since infinites don’t deal much damage and get finicky based on distance and proximity to the ropes.
-The standard 44LP and 66HP are the only throws that universally “beat” blocking. Pushing does so, too.
-66HP setup allows the victim to Reversal. If a character deals decent damage or safe chip without this risk, I consider that a plus.
-Unlike WWF Wrestlemania, every character has the HP+HK power lift. Since you can’t Reversal this, characters able to combo into this have an advantage.
-Oki options consist of pummeling them on the floor until they Recover, or using HP to put them into the 66HP state. Stomping is arguably more reliable.
-Causing the Recover state seems inconsistent, like ST dizzy timers or something. Characters who get this more often have a small advantage.

With all that in mind, here’s the lowdown on the Hart clan:

-Both retain zoning options (Owen’s is slightly better, since it’s faster and deals more damage)
-Both get combo-enabling button-up attacks
-Both have combo-starting close normals
-Both have an exceptional oki option with Sharpshooter (Bret has two for some reason, Owen’s is slightly better since it’s easier to do)
-Both seem to force Recover with more reliability on some throws
-Like several others, Bret has an infinite on cl.HP. Owen lacks this, exchanging it for a plus-on-block approach on 66HK.

Essentially, landing a cl.HK and/or a button-up (for instance, by shimmying to whiff-punish a Push), they can combo into a HP+HK, 2HP for about 50%. If this causes Recover, they can position for Sharpshooter (64HK for Bret, 4HK for Owen, then mash HP) for a combo yielding around 80-90% damage. Since their neutral is pretty much on par with everyone else alongside incredible damage potential, I consider these two the men to beat. Sharpshooter is love, Sharpshooter is life.

Most other characters suffer in comparison, whether by lacking good followups to close normals, opportunities for HP+HK, a decent button-up, or Sharpshooter. Sometimes they just have bad frames. More notes:

-Shawn seems kinda shitty. He has a metric buttload of specials and grabs, yet he lacks options into HP+HK and his projectile’s buttcheeks. His oki stomps are very powerful, though. Good Push recovery, but many of his specials leave him wide open. And if you’re not down with that, I got two words for ya…
-Vader’s not awful. His 44LK is useful for combos and pressure, since it’s totally safe on block, covers a lot of ground, and can snag Push attempts. He’s a big guy, so he has decent range. His Push is quite fast, so he’s more threatening when you’re cornered. He has to risk Reversals to maximize his damage output.
-Ahmed Johnson’s okay, but his button-ups are weak, his zoning slow, and his normals mediocre. It’s hard for him to catch people by surprise, but if the opponent sucks at Reversals, his damage output from 66HP, 44HK is unreal. He also has an infinite on cl.HP, and it’s not hard to do. He recovers a bit slower when hit by a Push, so he’s vulnerable near ropes.
-Bulldog sucks ass. Terrible normals and gimped combo potential (his 2-hit 44HK Scorpion spear doesn’t even combo into itself–pathetic!), alongside frame disadvantage everywhere. He can manage HP+HK combos, but that’s simply not enough. Artist’s interpretation of his tier standing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGt4TL5sJbA
-Undertaker seems taken down a peg since WWF Wrestlemania. His stun projectile is basically the same, but he also gets a horrid bat blast. His safe specials are lacking in the damage department, so it’s best to stick to HP+HK if you get a close hit. His button-up Urn Smash is lousy, so he seems best played as a zoner. His long LP and solid HP, combined with his stun projectile, give him decent neutral. He can use his 46HP–unblockable–to guarantee extra damage from certain situations. Has a very slow Push. His cl.HP infinite is tricky. Not exceptional, but he can play.
-Goldust is pretty much average. His button-up has a lot of range, but very low advantage (so stay close). His combos are barely above Bulldog’s, but his normals are okay and he has a cl.HP infinite. Middle of the road sort of character. His biggest flaw is his extended “Pushed” animation, so he can eat big damage near the ropes.
-Warrior is high risk/reward. He can combo much like the Harts (normal, button-up, HP+HK, 2HP), and he has several button-ups and projectiles. He’s hard to predict, but a good read or a whiffed special leaves him in hot water. In that respect he’s very much like Doink. His Push is rather slow, so in general he’ll be taking explosive risks to get what he wants.
-HHH is solid. He has a cl.HP infinite and his 82LP extends combos with generous advantage. He can use it for ghetto 50/50s between 66HP and another close normal into 82LP and start it over again. He can do similar combos to Warrior, and his cane attacks give him interesting neutral. 22LK is a long unblockable that forces people to stay lightfooted–it causes very small juggles. 214BLK is a functional counter, so he can force complicated situations at small frame disadvantages, but beware an opponent making a strong read and sidestepping around it. He too recovers slowly from being Pushed, and his own Push has oddly long startup.

Overall,
A - Bret, Owen
B - HHH
C - Warrior, Vader, Undertaker, Goldust, Ahmed
D - Shawn, Bulldog[/details]*
I should note that increased Difficulty = increased damage, even in multiplayer.


#2086

Tiers for Virtua Fighter 2 (Genesis/Mega Drive version)

This game is in a very compromised position. A poverty version of an outdated VF? Good gravy.

This plays remarkably close to the original, given the circumstances (it even retains vanilla VF2 backdashes), but there are differences. Unlike the 3D version, certain features like Counter-Hits and Stagger escapes don’t exist. Several offense/defense Option Selects aren’t here, either. This makes for a high-stakes variation–6P starts combos dealing upwards of 50% against crouchers, and it’s a 90’s game so throws hit like a falling airplane. Senbon Punches (PKG cancel) are still present(!), and can still lead to infinites, but are pretty tough.

The system changes make for a slightly different tier list than its counterparts:

S - Dural
A - Kage, Akira, Lau
B - Wolf, Jeffry, Sarah/Jacky/Pai

[details=Spoiler]
Dural is basically a better Kage. She’s the boss character for a reason, but given the circumstances she’s not outrageous.

Kage can theoretically set up a zero-death 50/50 between a mid launch or his skyscraper toss, so he’s well equipped to murder you.

Akira isn’t terribly worse than Kage, but his “throw” game is SPoD–it’s hard to do and does a lot less damage than the 3D versions.

Lau is basically like Akira in terms of Senbon stuff, but his throw game is weaker.

Wolf is pretty scary in this game–he can’t really Senbon, but between 6K/Giant Swing you’re risking over 50% every time he gets plus frames.

Jeffry is in the same boat as Wolf, but Splash Mountain doesn’t have nearly the same RO potential as Wolf, so he’s a smidge weaker. He also lacks his auto santaku, so his offense can’t be as brainless.

Sarah, Jacky and Pai all occupy a similar boat–they can Senbon, but have much less scary throws compared to the likes of Kage or Akira. If you suck at Senbon there’s not much reason to pick Pai, if you ask me.[/details]

If you suck at Senbon Punches (like me), then Wolf/Jeffry are essentially A-tier.


#2087

Thx for that VF2 GEN. I have always been curious about that game. Sadly there arent combo vids nor matches at YT.

Good stuff


#2088

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4UW1YtBnr0


#2089

THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY

Edit: Are you testing the Game Gear version too?


#2090

Real Bout 1 is kinda like an oldschool Hokuto no Ken. A large part of the cast is full of powerful bullshit, and the whole system makes it so that you die in one or two solid hits. Damage is super high for everyone and out of bounds heavily punishes positional disadvantage, so any slip can be deadly. This makes it a very exciting game to watch and makes it kinda balanced too since at least half of the cast has something really really dumb to hit you with. I’d say tiers would be something like this

S +

Yamazaki - Snake arm cancel is godly. It lets you do feint-cancel like pressure strings, gives you massive advantage on everything and it builds a tooon of meter in the process. Allows an infinite on crouch characters (which can be landed decently well since Yama has great high/low mixups) and a super damaging combo otherwise (A, Cx3, Snake cancel, A, Cx3, repeat if crouch, end with knife if not), stand C has massive range, super is safe and comboable from normal antiairs, deadly mixups after OTG, great supers, knife attack is a great combo ender that does good damage and sets up oki, high damage on everything, so basically he touches you once and you are dead. Wakeup sand attack is great too. He basically has it all and everything he does is deadly.

Billy - Godly defensive character, everything is safe and has super long range, air d+C makes Seth’s old j.HP in SSFIV look like a joke, baton thrust kills projectiles so he wins ranged wars too, and he doesn’t lack damage either despite being a long range character. You have to hope to get once and kill him right there or it’s hopeless. He’s kinda like ST Sim+O.Sagat rolled into one, plus more.

S

Franco - Excellent space control via stand/crouch C, power bicycle and projectile, tackle is super safe on block and gives excellent pressure, huge damage. Power bycicle lineshifts and setups mixups and combos, super is very safe and has massive hitbox, Potential has great damage but also carries the enemy a lot so it’s great for out of bounds.

Duck King - He touches you once and it’s over. Jump C is godly, crosses up like crazy, lots of hitstun that enable you to do stuff like land, rejump, do jump C again into dive ball into cr.Ax3 into DP for dizzy and combo into KO. Lots of trickery on oki, great karacancelable normals with excellent range, safety in general, lots of very useful breakspiral setups (like after a backdash, tick from cr.A, karacancel overhead, karacancel stand C, etc).

Sokaku - Great range on everything, projectile is godly (hits twice, second hit is low, massive frame advantage), afterimage gives excellent pressure, great damage, flame ball is a godly reversal with like two seconds of full invincibility.

A

Geese - Kicks have excellent range, safe pressure, lineshift combo into super does insane damage, Raging storm does lots of chip and breaks stage borders really well when done on wakeup.

Kim - It’s Kim, he’s always been good in Fatal Fury, has great damage and supers and good normals.

B

Jin Chonrei - Lots of ambiguous roll trickery that lead to good damage, lineshift combo into unblockable super setups, good pressure.

Mary - Safe pressure, great AA, great supers with poweful setups, good damage.

Jin Chonshu - Very nice mixups, probably best ground overhead, teleport trickery.

C

Bob - Good damage and normals, some good pressure, flashkick is pretty good. Very good throw.

Terry, Joe, Andy - Solid characters, not too much in the way of mixups so while they might have some good damage options setting them up isn’t as reliable as the best characters. Terry probably the best of the bunch due to Power Geyser.

D

Hon-fu: he has little other than his dp. Low damage in general, no mixups, some pressure with rolling attack but doesn’t amount to much. DP isn’t THAT good either, has great invincibility but is much easier to punish than in RB2.

Mai - Low damage in general so she has to work very hard to win compared to the rest, some good normals but far from the best, not too much in the way of mixups or offense. She would be a decent character in any other game probably but she can’t keep up with all the bullshit here.

Most of these opinions come from what I’ve seen on rb1ukyo’s youtube channel, they do lots of stuff I haven’t seen when playing online (which is mostly limited to Brazilians picking Billy and doing jump C/jump down + C all the round).


#2091

Wow I didn’t think Yamazaki was that good, I’m gonna have to look into him harder.


#2092

Godzilla: Monster War
(aka Gojira: Kaijuu Daikessen)

I’ll preface this by saying that the throw system seems borked–invincible reversals and/or throw-immune prejump aren’t in place, so setting up repeated walk-in throws appear the number one strat. It seems that being able to escape is entirely character/throw-specific, so while it may not spoil everything, it does lend advantages here and there. Fortunately, throws have steep recovery, limiting some abuse–as does that knockdowns are rare outside of throws to begin with.

EDIT: I may have spoke too soon. I can’t make all these traps works 100%. Whether by spacing, difficult timing, or mashing, it’s harder to get bullshit throws than I thought outside of ticks. You can also do ghetto kara normals with the dash buttons, so you can increase throw range in this manner. In other words, this game’s pretty damn solid. Added a few more notes here and there.

Gameplay in this is pretty good otherwise. True to the films, buttons are heavy and slow (and often stubby), making traditonal combos unlikely (most attacks are more plus on block than on hit). Beam attacks allow for variable duration at the trade-off of longer recoveries. They can often be adjusted or aimed, which is cool, and you can simply enter the input without holding it to do feints. Dashes are attached to a button–for some it’s a run, others a typical dash–as are the aforementioned throws (which are like kara-throws in practice), where you land grabs before entering commands for unique grapples. There’s a stun system in place, and you can roar (i.e. taunt) to raise the stun gauge by double-tapping Dash. Stuns rather oddly knock down, but there are OTGs so it’s all good. Everyone has a Wrath Attack (i.e. DM) that deals a metric arseload of damage. When it’s charged you also passively deal more damage. Watch yourself. Interestingly, getting stunned empties the DM, giving added incentive to avoid stuns.

Characters in no particular order within their tiers (no Super Mechagodzilla/Gotengo for the time being):

A - Biollante, Mothra
B - Megalon, Mechagodzilla '93, Gigan
C - Godzilla, Mechagodzilla '74, Anguirus, Ghidorah

[details=Spoiler]
Biollante is really sick. She can’t jump or duck, but has perhaps undisputed air coverage and good reach. Her throws allow setup for OTG projectiles and other goodness. Some of her projectiles have extremely steep recovery, however–a simple jump is all it takes for her defensive network to fall apart. Good thing she does a lot of damage. Her anti-air cr.A is more damaging than it looks, as you can juggle like three in a row. Her incredible size is a liability against certain characters, particularly on her wakeup. Additionally, she has a hard time against Gigan/Mechagodzilla '93 because of their unblockable Ranbus. Once they hit DM, she has little choice but to backdash or else she will get hit. Her zoning sort of loses to “real” zoning, so pushing the opponent to the corner and keeping them there is key to her success. A jump is a huge risk if she has her spacing right: button-up 8B combos into 22A for ridiculous damage against Mechagodzilla '93. Her DM is finicky–it can combo at close range, but the second half can be blocked depending on spacing. She has an infinite with her heavy dash attack: it knocks down and guarantees a 214A, which can be timed such that you combo into another dash attack. The timing for this is tricky and is character-dependent (and her heavy dash attack is really unsafe on block).

Mothra, like Biollante, is mechanically unusual–she flies. No dash attacks, no jumps, no crouching. She can plant herself at positions onscreen where characters lack the air coverage to stop her, and she can neutralize zoning pretty easily with 214A/B. Since she can fly, she can more easily avoid throws while setting up her own. If you have bad anti-air against Mothra you’re in trouble. I suspect Biollante is a bad matchup for her. Another big downside is that while she has two DMs, they’re unwieldy and easily neutralized. Mothra relies on freedom of movement, so characters capable of stripping that away leave her with little else to go on. She also can’t block–so when it rains, it pours.

Megalon is just a solid all-rounder. His held normals (st.B, 2B) offer decent reach and damage, his 66B is a just-do-it chip attack that gets in for free (it goes through projectiles), 236A is a relatively fast fullscreen beam, and 214A bombs might have powerful applications for oki. Even basic combos from his 62 throw deal generous damage. His DM is devastating–it grants generous advantage, and can combo into st.B into dizzy into cr.B for 100%. In DM, his hidden 2364128 big boot allows for an easy kill combo (j.2B, 2B_). His major failing is weak anti-air, forcing him to air-to-air more often. I’d wager this is less of a problem against Biollante or most others, but it’s a struggle against Mothra. Anguirus is bothersome–he can waltz under st.B and jump over nearly anything else.

Mechagodzilla '93 is diabolical. His normals are solid (j.B is a viable combo opener) and his zoning options are damn good. He can do ia236A, land into 236A for lots of space control, 22A seems effective post-throw for free frames, and 214B is a very reliable way to put the fear of a stun in someone. This matters, because his DM is a Ranbu (i.e. unblockable rush). If I’m right, you can set it up such that they stand up into it, leading to massive damage or a certain kill. Much like Megalon, his anti-air is somewhat lacking, and his dash is slow (it has to accelerate), so he has some headaches landing worthwhile hits on Mothra or Mechagodzilla '74. I would put him higher but he’s arguably got more counters than Biollante being generically huge (on top of being more vulnerable to certain combos).
(Super Mechagodzilla is basically this guy with good anti-air. I’d rule him bannable mostly on the principle that he renders '93 irrelevant)

Gigan has some similarities to Mechagodzilla '93. His air 2BBB is unlike basically every other aerial in that it actually enables combos. This means, much like the tin titan, that he can set up his Ranbu DM for some serious pain–especially if they have poor anti-airs to halt this approach. His dash is Hugo-like, so he’s not terribly fast, but he retains a decent grip of zoning options and has long blades. Sadly, his 623 Flash Kick is not an anti-air, as much it it seems otherwise, and is grossly minus on hit. His “hold Dash, 4+Throw” psuedo-parry makes no sense, either. Has a strange matchup with Biollante–his air 2BBB doesn’t stun her as long, making free combos into DM unviable. Despite this, her girth makes avoiding his DM a real chore, giving Gigan a lot of control over the fight. His buzzsaw throw deals absolutely insane damage in DM. Combo with 2B for an easy 95%. Dead serious.

Godzilla’s the poster boy, natch. His anti-air is pretty good (236A8, 623A), and his air 214A is pretty solid. His ia2B is a solid IOH. Unusually, his air projectile ia214A is not only encouraged, but rewarded, much like Mechagodzilla '93–timing it right fans out the shots, creating huge screen coverage. I can’t do it consistently, though. His DM’s first hit is a sort of shield that penetrates projectiles. If it hits, the DM combos and stuns to boot. Goji’s probably best played as a conservative, pokey character, since he lacks the killer damage or setup potential of other monsters.

Mechagodzilla '74 is what you find under ‘jank’ in the dictionary. Very poor normals, and an unconventional zoning style. He can delay missile fire and beams to bait jumps, and can aim his flamethrower like the big G. He can fly, somewhat like Mothra with a smaller movelist–setting it up is a challenge, but he can make himself a royal pain with homing missiles. His DM has excellent utility, able to be aimed upward (potent anti-air) or downward (possible fat oki?). His 2B is horrible. He can land his 8426 throw into 22B for crazy damage against Mechagodzilla '93, Mothra, and Biollante. Strange character, but not an altogether bad one.

Anguirus calls Blanka to mind. His retreating st.B, just-do-it tackle, and low-profiling dash seem tailor-made to annoy. Fast and pokey, with some good anti-airs (st.B, cr.B, 624A). Fairly lightweight, if big slow rubber suits aren’t your thing. Zoning with iaStuff into ground projectiles has a lot of coverage, and Anguirus is a good counter to that strategy. He’s so lithe that a lot of standard highs sail over him, so he calls for a change in tactics. His DM can do devastating amounts of damage, but its safety and chip are very inconsistent between monsters and spacing. I might be underrating him.

Ghidorah has average beams–they’re plus on block (and one of the only beams that can actually hit Anguirus), but they’re basically weaker versions of Mechagodzilla ‘93’s. His instant-air beams inexplicably don’t fire downward (isn’t that practically his go-to?), and he has a variation on Anguirus’ tackle that flies upward first. He has a Chun-Li stomp on air 2B that is extremely easy to avoid and punish, even on hit–his ability to abuse poor anti-air is low. On the other hand, his 2B is really annoying. Plus on block, and pretty damn fast, alongside a solid anti-air 5A. Some of his normals hit twice when close, but they’re finicky, perfect for accidental mindgames. His HHS is basically impossible to combo with outside of throws–but with throws, especially in the corner, the damage is great. He can theoretically launch Megalon, Gigan, and Ghidorah using his heavy HHS after a 632 bite grab. This is extremely difficult, and only really works on Gigan midscreen–so his options aren’t all that flexible. His DM, on the other hand, is perhaps the most flexible in the game. It covers a wide spread and juggles, so you can use it as a weird anti-air–or to zap a Mothra/Jankzilla. He can also land it from his 4268 throw for excellent damage.[/details]

In the future, Ghidorah, Mechagodzilla '93, and Anguirus might go up. Biollante and Mothra will probably go down, but this is more of matchup game anyway. This game is legit.


#2093

Kamen Rider Agito

This game’s off the freaking chain. The other Rider games are pretty mediocre (I may get to them at some point), but whoever made this knew how to have a good time.

Cancels are everywhere. Normals into command normals/specials/jumps/launchers/aerial raves, you can kara-cancel dashes into attacks and hyper hops, lows all knock down, anything that knocks down causes a wallbounce near the corner, air-blocking is present, practically everyone can double jump…it’s a blast.

Like the other Rider games, balance is questionable (strictly-superior super modes are separate characters and there are no mirrors). Unlike the other Rider games, balance is hilariously equal in distribution. Everyone has infinites, and they’re all incredibly easy to do, so damage output is only really limited by how easy they are to set up. As such, this list is on shaky ground–basically everyone is competitive in that screwy sort of way.

A - Super mode stuff (G3-X, Burning Agito, Exceed Gills etc.)
B - Everyone else
C - Jaguars
D - G3

[details=Spoiler]
The Jaguars are only lower because their general ability to do infinites is hampered by a flaky 9A hitbox.

G3 has an okay time with infinites, but they’re pretty unwieldy. G3 and G3-X have a time limit before their suits shut down, which isn’t really a downside when this game is so fast-paced and crazy, but still.[/details]

Sample infinite: 5Axx4CxxJC 5AA, [5Axx9A]xforever with Agito

EDIT: Other cool/cheap stuff:
-The general mixup is 2Axx9A (low starter) or 3A/5A~4C (mid launch). If they block a 5A, you can 50/50 between 5Axx2A or 5Axx3A and combo from there. If they block correctly you can blockstring and JC out of there or cancel into a special attack if you’re gutsy.
-If they block 2Axx9A low, they can’t high guard the 9A in time and get launched. If they block it high, it’s a natural combo.
-Infinites get wonky after a wallbounce because juggle physics are different on backturned enemies. Some characters can OTG with 2Axx9A repeatedly anyway.
-Throws can convert into combos with C~2Axx9A etc.
-Throws from behind are crazy strong, causing a stun. Free infinites!
-You can steer neutral jumps, allowing you to approach with aerial raves.
-Holding C makes you block, on top of back-to-block. Button-up allows you to throw, so you can evade ambiguous situations with a hyper chicken-block or by release-throwing.
-Aerials are generally slightly minus (most attacks are, actually, but you won’t notice since cancels generally terminate in a retreat or an aerial). It’s character-specific, but you can mitigate a reversal throw by spacing out an aerial rave to snipe it.
-Some characters have counters that stun like a back throw. They don’t stop lows, though, so they’re an all-in gamble.
-In general, Riders do more damage, and Monsters have better attacks for OTG infinites and the like.


#2094

BLOODSTORM
"BUY ME BONESTORM…"

This game’s way better than Time Killers. The interchangeable gauntlets are interesting on their own, but combined with the Mega Manning of special moves, generally excellent normals, decent zoning options, and juggles for days there’s lots of stuff to find. The pre-Rumble Fish animations are very smooth, but are pretty nauseating when one considers the wretched attempt at a comic-book look…

Gameplay is changed from its predecessor. It’s an MK-style layout here, with attacks tied to limbs. Heavy attacks can knock off arms, everyone still has access to a Decap attack, and if the opponent is dizzy one special move becomes a Sunder (which lops off their legs and immobilizes them). It actually plays way better than it looks–the fast, long attacks (with lots of command normals) and good walkspeed make it less of a gimmicky zoning-fest than you’d expect, and there’s even short-hops (and instant-airs) if you’re into that. Throws do low damage and don’t kill, but everything deals chip damage. There’s no Stun gauge, but you are warned when the next hit dizzies. Certain attacks initiate juggles (sometimes even a d1!) and the combo system is fun, if unsophisticated (you can juggle sweeps into throws, for instance). Some stages feature deathtraps (one stage kills you if you eat a d2 during Stun, the ice stage can kill you if you’re thrown into the corner, the cliff kills you via ringout…). Make no mistake, there’s cheap shit everywhere, but this game revels in excess. It’s a fast-paced, hectic beast, and surprisingly progressive considering its tasteless presentation.

Essentially, the Agents of Nekron are variants of the characters with a shared gauntlet and very subtly changed specials. To make a long story short, this game features an assload of secret character/gauntlet/loadout codes (including one that grants them all at once), so I can only really go ‘vanilla’–in a long set, the learned attacks/gauntlet swaps make things very confusing. I suspect this is a matchup-heavy game, first and foremost.
Characters listed in approximate order in their tiers:

S - Nekron, probably
A - Tempest/Dimentia, Mirage/Sin, Freon
B - Fallout/Wraith, Razor/Ratchet, Tremor/Golem
C - Hellhound/Blood, Talon/Craniac
?? - Chainsaw

Spoiler

S
Haven’t tried Nekron, but I’m guessing he’s the boss for a reason.

A
Tempest is the speedster, with excellent mobility and zoning tools. She boasts a projectile reflector, a (risky) divekick, a wakeup kick(!), and seems made as “The Kitana”. Her gauntlet causes a quirky ‘pull’ effect on an opponent–they can still act, but are sucked into melee range. She also has a ‘fan lift’. This attack is extremely powerful–though its juggle properties will usually end your combos after it, it lifts the opponent off the floor. There’s a grace period where, as they fall, you can time it to lift them over and over, and they’re helpless to stop it. There’s near-zero risk of trying this timer scam. As a girl, she’s stubbier and juggles differently, but her decent combo ability, killer zoning/counter-zoning and ability to stall out a round gives her a serious edge. Like Mirage, she also can ToD with a simple [d1, j4xxd]. Some improvisation is required to avoid the pop-out effect in the corner, but this makes Tempest totally ridiculous. One hit and it’s potentially lights out. Just about her only serious flaw is that instant-air qcf1 has a limit of one, so you can’t go apeshit with it.
(Dimentia replaces Tempest’s tornado with a wicked-fast lightning bolt. Instant-air bolts are fast, fun, and really good zoning, though it reduces Dimentia’s stalling power considerably)

Mirage is very solid. She’s one of the characters who causes juggle state with jump-ins and her d1, and combined with her fast speed, strong hitboxes and teleport she leaves a good impression. She features a ToD (any juggle followed by repeat walk-in d1s until Stun), which goes great with her ‘okay’ Decap and the stage hazards. Her d3+4 bomb can create some funny situations when crossed with her teleports (which alongside her walljump and stuff gives her very good movement). Her zoning is aight. She’s a bit smaller than the musclebound Rob Liefeld dudes, so her footsies are stubbier, but the upshot is that the girls are harder to juggle consistently (and fall out of certain combos differently).
(Sin the dominatrix replaces an explosive projectile with a high whipcrack. I’d rule her slightly weaker, unless the Agent gauntlet appeals to you)

Freon is a shameless rip of Sub-Zero. He has some seriously good normals, but his juggle abilities are very limited compared to Mirage and Tempest. His main claim to fame is his freeze ray. He can combo into it and–like Tempest–can’t really loop it (it also rebounds if you try to refreeze). But, as with Tempest, there’s a grace period as they thaw where you can refreeze, giving Freon the same stalling strength. His pokes, anti-airs and his Freeze (which is AirOK and steerable, by the way) conspire to make Freon a (pardon the pun) snowball character. He gains a lead, stalls out with his refreeze, and gains traction to zone and extend his lead. Be warned: his freeze has much steeper recovery than Tempest’s loop, and it’s tricky to time. Failure can leave you wide open. His gauntlet’s boomerang is pretty crappy to boot. Freon would be a much weaker character without his scamming potential.

B
Fallout is a combo machine, and very well-rounded. He can start juggles with nearly everything (and extends like a boss with qcf4), has solid normals, and wields a wide suite of projectiles. He’s even got a backdash! He lacks a consistent ToD (j4, d1, qcf4, d1, qcf4 is finicky), and his gauntlet is token. He’s also a bit fatter than he looks, so he’s easy to juggle. That said, Fallout is just a really great pick, and doesn’t present any glaring faults.
(Wraith frankensteins his moveset, but is very close to Fallout. If you like the Bane look, he’s your man)

Razor is well-built for zoning and chip damage. His punches are long, his zoning spread is among the best (his gauntlet’s buzzsaw is great), and he has a HHS to really lay on the chip. Much like Fallout, he’s lacking in cheap stuff, but he’s a suitable pick for just about anybody and isn’t hurting in any particular category.
(Ratchet basically replaces his head with a skull. I could mention how his zoning is actually a tad weaker, no thanks to his gauntlet, but he has a skull for head)

Tremor is suitably dense. He’s huge, falls out of combos oddly, and has big long limbs. He has an unblockable stomp, so MKX Tremor fans might find something to like here. He legit throws rocks for zoning–somewhat like Mirage, they fly at an angle, and he can roll up into a ball in varying angles. His specials are honestly not that great, and he can generally get by with well-placed pokes and free oki stomps.
(Golem is a troll or something? He incorporates a headbutt attack which is easy to combo into, but doesn’t add much to the table–his gauntlet isn’t much different than Tremor’s either, so choose to taste)

C
Hellhound feels quite stock compared to much of the cast. He’s a moveset buddy like Fallout/Razor, so some of his normals are different, but not usually for the better. He can aim his fireballs, but the risk/reward is simply unimpressive compared to Freon’s shenanigans. Much like Freon, his aerials are pretty nonthreatening since they don’t juggle, and in general Hellhound has to just lame it out–big combos and plays aren’t his forte. Instant-air qcf1 is sweet (projectile limits? What’re those?), and he has a neat flaming flip that doesn’t do much but sure looks neat. His best feature is that, for whatever reason, he has a special move designed to break him out of Freon’s freeze! He totally flips the match on its ear, and it gives him something to write home about.
(Blood is the 90’s given flesh. He’s a red Hellhound with a geyser of blood for a head and Nekron’s gauntlet. He’s…not really any better than Hellhound, but his looks are what sell it)

Talon is just very limited. He walks the walk, but his normals are stumpy and his zoning suite less sizeable. He doesn’t excel in juggles, and his cool restand tazer is minus on hit, ruining any cool tricks. If you’re a Brian Battler fan, though? Talon might be your guy. He has several variations of a deadly helicopter attack (Screw Body Press ayy), and it’s really hard to punish. His Cruise Missile is a once-per-round powerhouse that deals huge damage, so while he isn’t going to stage big comebacks he can certainly play. His other cool trick is his Decap–it looks identical to the startup of his helicopter, and a gutsy opponent trying to low-profile it might end up dead. It’s also safe, and as with the helicopter it avoids lows, but all in all Talon is kind of a one-trick pony.
(Craniac looks baller, but is lacking the heli business. Without the Decap trick and only a Nekron-style projectile to show for it, I’m tempted to call him the worst character).

???
Chainsaw leaves me of two minds. On one hand, I see a flying bastard not unlike Pet Shop–he can fly (awkwardly), can’t really eat any combos, and has easy ways around standard situations–but on the other, he’s an easy target, kind of slow, and lacks any seriously scary normals. I can’t get a bead on this guy, and he controls like ass, so I’m leaving him out of this for the time being.

*EDIT: Some other observations:

[details=Spoiler]Every attack (except most specials and throws) does Stun damage. Any attack dealing Stun does an identical amount. Five Stun hits causes a dizzy, whether it’s caused by jabs, uppercuts, or whatever. On that note, most attacks deal similar damage–hitboxes are more important than raw numbers.

“Arm” damage is enabled only on certain heavy attacks (most moves on 2, some specials etc.), and in varying amounts. “Enough” of this damage bonks off an arm, and I’ve yet to determine if they’re always removed in a certain order. Decap attacks can deal hefty Arm damage, hitboxes pending. Inexplicably, throws deal this damage–an errant grab can dismember you.

Characters have different weights and recovery values, which is surprising. This affects how high Tempest can juggle you with her tornado, as well as how quickly one stands from a knockdown. Razor recovers faster after eating a d2 than Tremor, for example.

Throws do not require the opponent to be grounded. They can theoretically anti-air, and if you have a fast d2 you can run up to their corpse and throw it as they land. Useful for racking up damage after sweeps, uppercuts, and corner throws.

Stuns seemingly can’t be shortened. This is bad news: a dizzy all but guarantees a Decap. Good footsies and zoning are crucial, to avoid a dizzy and an early death.[/details]*


#2095

Small update to the Kasumi Ninja write up with the possibilities of absorbing with no damage all fireballs in the game with normal attacks.


#2096

Battle Arena Toshinden for the psx

Top Tier
Ellis, Gaia, Sho

Low Tier
Duke, Mondo, Rungo

Mid
Everyone else

Ellis had an easy peasy infinite, and you could spam the fuck out of qcb +kick, fucking with the camera. Her mid air flash kick did an insane amount of damage if done close the ground, which wasn’t that hard with the qcb move. Her desperation was also really powerful.

Sho i remember being fast af, although i didn’t play him much. Gaia had invincibility on one of his moves, which was spammable as well, the green hand thing. It was safe too iirc.

Duke had terrible tracking on his Southern Cross move, and his damage and combos were almost nonexistent. Mondo was slow and had shit damage. Rungo had great damage, but was too slow to be effective, although i think weak Batter Up was a decent move.


#2097

Im just having fun playing SF The Movie on PSX. While graphically is laughable, and the speed is nearly SSF2 vanilla, the game has ST regulations + EX Moves that when the Super bar is full, they dont decrease it, so you can spam EX fireballs and DP etc.

Really dumb fun.

No one have a tier list for it?

EDIT: We should tier EVERYTHING in this list XD

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/inventories/mortalklones.htm


#2098

I’ve been interested in Blood Warrior and Fight Fever for a while. It’d be cool to see the predecessor to Fists of Fire under the hood.

EDIT: Maybe not Fight Fever. TL;DR throw loops all day. Maybe I’ll try Groove On Fight or something.


#2099

THIS GAME!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_SfMwzbTbg


#2100

Anyone have Tiers for the card game Uno?