Tiers for obscure games


#2141

Thx Bious.

BTW I have not read much about Battle Tycoon Flash Hiders, either TurboDUo or SFami versions. I played the latest and is kind of decent and fun.


#2142

Trying it out right now, looks pretty cool.


#2143

Okay @Hanzo_Hasashi, I think I got a preemptive list going.

Strong:
Ottoh
Pacter
Tiria

Average:
Harman

Weak:
Spenoza

Don’t Know Yet:
Jail Lance
Guston
Bang
Seena
Calnarsa

I need to put more work into the game, but those are my first impressions.


#2144

At first glance, yes, Ottoh seems super good, with all that reach and damage.

BTW the Variable GEO games.

Any tiers?


#2145

@Hanzo_Hasashi Current list, I’ll edit it more later and add a writeup about the game.

Best:

Jail Lance
+Highest attack in the game (Along with Bang)
+High Priority Sword
+Best in the game at Guard-Crushing
+High Damage
+Specials can easily cross up and do a lot of damage

Pacter
+Has great priority and high damage
+Almost all her normals have huge hitboxes
+Great AA; Walkup DP is extremely hard to deal with for some

  • JHP Can hit twice on the way down on stunned characters, doing around %40 on most.
    +Breaks Guard Gauges quickly with her DP, Normals, and Bear Rush
    +Her Super murders Guard Gauges. If you block it at less than half G Gauge you’re eating a stun.
    -Crouching the Bear Rush leaves her wide open
    -DP will whiff croutchers

Excellent:

Ottoh
+Great Hard Punch; Long reach and Combos into a lot of his specials
+Huge damage
+Good Defense
+His multi-Punch stuffs almost everything
+Great Guard Cancel
-Slow
-Weak to pressure
-Sub-par Super

Bang
+Fast
+Highest Attack in the game (along with J. Lance)
+Quickly depletes Guard Guages
+Great AA that hits on the way up and down
+If he puts you in the corner can put a great amount of pressure

  • Far HK hits Low then high, allowing him to blow up bad guard cancels and combo from
    +High damaging combos
    -Guard Cancels easily ruin his pressure
    -Has a tough time getting in on a few characters
    -Ties with Harman for worst defense in the game

Great:

Calnarsa
+Amazing Normals
+Great Pressure game
+Good at chipping away at the guard guage
+Stick attacks eat projectiles
+Well-Rounded stats
-Lowest Base Attack Stat in the game
-Specials are a bit lacking
-Can easily be caught by Guard Cancels
-Her stick has a hurtbox

Tiria-
+Fast
+Quick Triangle Jump allows her to escape corner
+Great Zoner
+Two Decent AA’s
+Her HCF+K Fire Trap splashes a bit upon hitting the ground, letting her punish alot of stuff
+QCB+P is a great spacing tool
+Can charge up her S bar easily and become an extremely quick fighter who is hard to hit.
-Below Average Guard Breaking Ability
-Bad Defense
-Besides HP, Below Average Normals
-Can get pressured easily if the opponent gets too close
-Low Range

Seena
+Best Fireballs in the game
+AA Fireball is great
+Her freeze special gives free combos on trades
+Stupidly long sweep
+Good Normals
-Super is hard to hit with
-Terrible Defense
-Her HCB Flipkick will usually whiff unless you’re extremely close
-Worst Guard Cancel in the game; will whiff half the time
-Low Damage

Harman
+Fastest in the game
+Good at pressuring the opponent
+Great normals
+Can combo from slide
+Her LK charge kick is safe if used at the right range, allowing her to pressure with it
+Great far HP
-Shares the award for absolute worst defense in the game with Bang
-Has trouble hitting crouchers
-Can be easily kept out of optimal range
-Super would be amazing if you didn’t have to charge it in a Down-Forward position

Weak:
Guston
+Highest Defense
+Great Jumping HP
-Extremely slow
-Fireballs are slow
-Can be pressured easily
-Most of his specials have startup

Spenoza
+Okay Zoner
+Good Guard Cancel
-No solid AA
-No good way to escape pressure besides Guard Cancel
-Low Damage
-Short Range normals
-Bad super that anyone who sees it coming can dodge and punish


#2146

I would love to know more about this game. I might play it this weekend with some friends.

BTW, the engine seems a beefed up version of the very first TurboDuo Godzilla FG (Bakutou Retsuden):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYNfpEkRh8


#2147

Yeah, I gave Bakutou Retsuden a gander, but the SNES version is where it’s at.

I only ran one set offline with this game, but the fundamentals still apply. Stay grounded, poke a lot, know your anti-airs, and know when to use DM and when to hold onto the damage bonus.

If you like rushdown, Anguirus is good to run under standard projectiles and has a low-risk air backdrop to get in. Gigan is great if you like jumping and/or they have bad anti-air. He also boasts a killer throw game.

If you like zoning and running defense, try Mothra, Mechagodzilla '74, or Mechagodzilla, 93. Mothra flight can make certain matchups very irritating for the opponent, 74 has a wide spread of projectiles and flight of his own, and 93’s stun darts make zoning very threatening. He gets free DM from a jump-in, throws, and stuns. his elbow throw is really bad since it fills the opponent’s DM Hella fast.

Biollante is an unusual character. Approach as much as possible, keep anti-airs simple, and avoid using her projectiles anywhere other than full-screen. She’s basically a giant wall–the sooner you can corner them the worse a time they’ll have.

Megalon, Ghidorah and Godzilla are all well rounded. Megalon’s bombs are serviceable as both anti-air and oki, and he has good pokes. His air game is weak, but passive DM gives him insane damage potential. Ghidorah’s mostly about constant sweeps and his super. Godzilla has serviceable anti-airs and a zoning trump card with DM.


#2148

Thanks! BTW you didn´t happen to record any of the sets? (Either Monster Wars or Duo)


#2149

Dunno for other VG, but for Advanced VG2, I know there are four characters that break the game in a way or another, but Kaori is on another level.

Super God tier
Kaori: she has everything + an easy infinite she can set up by breathing.

God tier (not in any order)
Miranda: highest stamina, hits like a truck, has an infinite and a 2-buttons AA super.
Material: can zone and run away very well, high stamina + hits like a truck despite being a small character.
Chiho: low stamina, but she can loop into genei-jin forever, so once she touches you with meter, it’s over.

Yeah, both boss characters are allowed to be picked. I mean, considering Kaori is also allowed, why not?

I don’t know for the rest. I guess I gotta dig deeper into the game. But the game being high damage and most characters having the same universal toolset as well as long limbs (thank you 90s waifus) mean the other ten characters are all tossed in a blurry mess of same-ish tiers.


#2150

Moved my list to a newer post with updated listings.


#2151

So yeah, I was trolling for games and came across one SNES game titled "Double Dragon V: The Shadow Falls."
I’m like, “Oh shit, SNES Double Dragon? Tite!”

It was not tite.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=j6fNTlMRdGQ

Working on tiering it, but off the bat Sickle is broken.


#2152

@IM_Amazon posted some good info regarding DDV on both Genesis and Snes (but I would love to read more :smiley: )


#2153

Could anyone help with tier lists for Rise 2: Resurrection (a lot of very broken and underpowered characters in that game).

Also, Dragon Master the obscure arcade game by Unico which uses sprites traced from SF.

And finally, The Master’s Fighter. Another very obscure game by Unico and Cinema Supply for the Playstation which uses even more copied sprites, this time from SNK games.

Cheers :slight_smile:


#2154

Yeah I read that. He missed a few characters.

I need to test out Sekka more I think.


#2155

DRAGON MASTER

Some stuff i wrote like 2 years ago which is obv unfinished But @Archminion askd about this game so i figured id post what i had il probably finish it sometime soon
Edit: added a few things And cleand up some stuff after doing a little testing

System
HEavy normals are done samsho style by pressing both punches or both Kicks
You throw in the tradish way some chars have hp throws as well
There are otgs everywhere due to the buggy codeing and stolen sprites
Some moves come out at complete random even without doing the motion
You cant die via chip damage
Normals do chip damage

S+:Deliza,Kluas Garcia
S:Gloria,JEdi ryan
A:Baekun Dosa,Joey
B:Darkman
C:Jackie

Deliza
Pros
infinete combo
Really dumb priority on fire bird
Fireball Can do 80% by itself as an AA or around 40% just hitting normally on the ground and can be thrown behind them on wakeup
Good variety of moves all of which are usefull
Cons
Infinete is a charge move which limits its explosiveness
Stubby normals

Deliza is by far the best character in the game for a variety of reasons The main one being that the fire bird makes her have an even matchup against kluas Her fireball Game Is nutty Becuse it splits into 4 peices all of which do insane damage on hit and are really safe Her fire bird is neigh unbeatable except by a very well timed DP by kluas If she touches you onece with harsh jet kick it Dizzys then redizzys into itself for a gurenteed kill Her swan kick Is very anoying and can hit multiple times like dosa,s Her Cutter move is great for otgs And her Small frame makes her hard to hit when shes ducking Only Problem matchup is kluas and Dosa(dosa has an infinete on her)

Kluas
Pros
Spin wiper
Spin wiper
Spin wiper
Serously its that good
Decent teleport
Great dp That shoots a fireball upwords
Cons
Dp has to be timed perfectly to beat deliza firebird He can allso use jump Hp

Spin wiper… nuff said ITs a low Which can be done in the air is incredibly fast And Is super safe You are never safe against him on the ground becuse of it and he Just pressures you to death with it No one in the cast has an awnser to this except for deliza and gloria prettymuch Aside from the spin wiper he has a teleport To get him out of any Hairy sitchuations as if those even come up A dp To help Him fight deliza And Decent normals that can be canceld into spin wiper If he gets you in the corner it is over Becuse he can do a glitchd jumping Spin wiper That There is basicly nothing you can do against Broken and dumb.

gloria
pros
100% combo!!
Safe pressure from slide into fire block
Flash kick to help her with anti airs
Shut kick is the 3rd best special in the game
cons
Shut kick very unsafe on block
Crappy normals aside from slide

So so normals But amazeing special move set Shut kick is an anti air a juggle and a Punisher all in one although its very unsafe on block Her power wave is a slow projectile that starts its active frames very quickly so its easy to AA with She has a slide which is cancelable and great in otg combos A fire block move which is incredibly opressive and safe Plus it Knocks down on hit Slide into fireblock is prettymuch allways unpunishable And if it hits she gets an otg Slide after it She allso has a 100% combo against kluas deliza and joey So if she catches any of them sneezeing She Wins right there Holds her own with most everyone becuse of this
Demonstration of the 100% combo:
https://youtu.be/_M0wPiYSlLA

JEdi ryan
pros
amazeing walkspeed
great zoner
Low fireball
Best stage theme and hair
Stand Lk is one of the best pokes in the game
Slideing sweeps
Fast divekick
Cons
No otgs
No Cancelable normals
Ryan is a character Like guile that Gives the opponent no breathing room and then Takes advantage of the mistakes they are forced to make His counter pokeing game is insane as well and his walkspeed makes tick throws a breeze Zoneing is out of this world as well With a straight fireball An antiair fireball and a Ground fireball that hits low His divekick allows a surprise punish as does his Max dash kick struggles heavily against anyone above him But Destroys most of those below him

Baekun dosa
Qoute:"KAIYEEH"
Pros
2 amazeing Anti airs One of which is invincble
Stun infinete against Everyone except Gloria in the corner
Unique Claw moves give him intresting mixup game
can combo fireball into eagle claw
Great Chip damage with repeated Crouch mp which allso has great range and a sweetspot where it hits low
Cons
no cancelable normals
Spin kicks are really unsafe on block

Dosa has a few choice scary things especialy his antiairs but the real main reasons to pick him are his crouch mp spam and his Spin kicks (hcf+K and Qcb,ub+K) the qcb Version is a disgusting anti air that Hits on the way up and on the way down and can be done in the air The half circle version does a ton of hits in the corner and can instantly dizzy someone Then dizzy them again especialy noteworthy against Deliza his fireball is decent and his claw moves are amazeing for getting out of the corner and throwing off the enemy since one doesnt knock down but pushes them forword and the other does knock down with dosa landing behind them and to Top everything off hes got an invinceble antiair in his charge move

Joey
Qoute:"PEEKDONME"
Pros
Max dash move
Power tackle is amazeing its safe Hits low and Can be used for a vareity of otgs
Good antiair with Cutting kick which is allso quite safe
throw is an Spd animation

Darkman
Qoute:"CHEYAUHHH"
Pros
2 high prioty blanka balls One of which goes in a circle
Charge move is a good anti air
Cutting power Is a decent poke
Cons
Very stubby normals
No combos
Blanka balls can be unsafe depending on the character

Jackie
qoute: "UUUURUHHH"
pros
Stand lightkick has great range and a sweetspot where it hits low
Otgs after every mp throw
knifes have good recovery
Stand jab is great
Max dash Move
Best pair of Blockers and Douche necklace you have ever seen
cons
Only combo is st hp>into dp
dp is incredibly hard to do for some reason
roket blow is unsafe as hell
jet claw does amazeing damage on hit but has luaghable prioty Deliza can beat it with jabs
St lk Has bad prioty unless your inside the sweetspot range
Jab can be beat by alot of crouching attacks and specials
Jackie just isnt very good and doesnt have alot of Things going for him to make him worth playing Except His throw his lightkick and His knifes His roket blow which is his one fast special Is a charge move that is super unsafe His dp would be good if it wasnt so unrealible to do And his claw moves leave alot to be desired jet claw is basicly unuseable at most ranges except as an escape from the corner becuse he flys upwords first Max dash hook is good but Joey and ryan have the same move and a better overall toolkit

List of otgs/juggles
Jackie: Throw Into cr hk
Klaus: Throw into Spin wiper
Gloria: Shutkickx3>eagle attack>Cr lp>all side kick(100% only works on kluas deliza and joey),Fire block>Cr lk
Dosa:fireball>eagle claw
joey :throw>Power tackle,Spin kick>Power tackle
Darkman: Rolling squirrel>crouch hk


#2156

Awesome post, and welcome!


#2157

Thank you Rockforge !
Very in depth and a great read :slight_smile:

Love seeing these kinds of tier list explanations.

Rgds


#2158

Sorry for the double post.

Please let me know when you complete your guide. I can’t get anywhere with Jackie, figured he was probably bottom tier as he seems a complete joke…

Cheers


#2159

@Rockforge

I can’t even beat the game with Jackie.
Have you managed to do it?

Cheers


#2160

Double dragon 5(Jag version)

Good Lord this one is bad

Differences from other versions

1.No hitstun basicly at all
2. no blockstun basicly at all…
3. All characters have a corner inf which is just sweep>repeat
4.No throws… so the offense is basicly just mashing buttons untell you hope to hit them with a sweep in the corner or spaming specials lol
5. No chip damage
6. The game moves really fast and Some moves Are alot faster haveing basicly no recovery
7.despite there being no chip damage zoneing is really really good becuse of the game speed
8. certain jumpins Hit twice on the way down for whatever reason
9.You start with 2 free stat points so you can put 5 into special or 5 into attack etc
10. Only 8 characters icepick,blade And trigger happy are just not there and shadow master is only there as the last boss

S:countdown,sekka
A:Jawbreaker
everyone else tier: everyone else
Garbage: Bones

Countdown: Zoneing king with a nasty corner game In the corner he has an actual high low mixup becuse Of his rocket juggleing into itself infinetely and his sweep is very fast he can allso start this rocket infinete when there even slightly in the corner if he happens to tag them with one becuse of The Arc the rocket flys in and the fact it moves him forword Allso has a multi hit special so thats dope

Sekka: Her d,d+k is very fast in this version her spinkicks are a multi hit move so there one of the only natrual combos in the game Her jab despite the hit and blockstun changes is still very anoying And her jump jab can hit twice Easy for her to get someone to the corner

jawbreaker: Good zoneing game with qcb+p and f,d+K His sonic boom is great as well Shitty normals but you dont need normals in this game lmao headbutt is decent for getting them into the corner too

The lees still have there great mp poke but there zoneing game is a little weak becuse the fireball doesnt even go across the full screen and there redizzy doesnt work becuse cr hp only hits onece Dragon spin is great in this version for Damage though since it recovers quickly and is a natrual combo

Domineqe Has her ponytail bolt her spinkick and Great range but thats about it

Sickle has a great projectile A redizzy if he can actully make you get hit by his jump hk into cr lk and his tornado still has good prioty

Bones is still terrible even in this awful version of the game becuse his zoneing still takes way too long to start up Crouch jab hits low which is cool i guess?? and he has a long range sweep if he can ever actully get the enemy into the corner

This game is hot garbage all praise the genesis version lol