Here’s the new match up thread, if you guys want it, we can use this one since the last one was horribly outdated and/or wrong.
Based on event hubs tier chart
Abel - 6/4
Pro Tip: Do NOT throw Tiger shots or jump in when Abel has his ultra meter full.
From x Z 3 2 x:
I play against Abel the same way I play against Chun-Li. I am writing this, assuming that you have become proficient in performing your moves, techniques, strings, links, etc.
- Keep the distance and spacing correct and try to make him pay for his little mistakes even if it’s for some chip damage. Another important thing is to knock Abel down. If you have a Tiger Option available, use TK or TU.
… Abel doesn’t have any good jump-in strikes besides his cross-up.
Just Tiger Uppercut him out of the skies, or use s.:hk:/:r:+:hk: to control the air.
After you make it clear that you control the air, he’s going to be forced to roll. Don’t be afraid to pressure him with Low Tiger Shots. The trick is to distance yourself properly so that if he rolls, you can hit him right at the edge of your s.:lk: (Tiger Option). This is also the distance where he cannot command throw you, or throw you. So even if he rolls past a Tiger Shot, you have the option and correct distance to TK him safely. If he rolls close to you, just throw him or get out of the way.
- Once he’s got his Ultra meter. It is a good idea to become aggressive and attack him. The reason why I say this is because Abel has the ability to play Rock, Paper, Scissors with you. If he has the option to Ultra through your Tiger Shots. This, gives him the ability to become VERY aggressive. Abel’s attack options consist of all three CQB (Close Quarter Battle) attacks.
…Strike, Throw, and Command throw. Yes, he is like a mini-gief, except not as predictable because he can FADC out of certain moves. This usually poses as a threat after his :mk: dash-in or cross-up. Abel has way too many options to hurt you if he engages you with EX meter. So keep your eyes on that.
… Your throw will beat his command throw and strikes.
… Your c.:lp: will beat most of his strikes besides his s.:lp: because it’s 3 frames. So it’s even.
… Your TU will beat out everything besides his… block.
… However, if he’s looking for an EX option after his s.:mk: then you’re in trouble. That’s when you should get out of his way and give him the awkward silence. Let him know that he’s going to have to find his point of entry again.
STAY OUT OF THE CORNER!
Abel will mix you up all day with his cross-up, if you get caught in the corner. He can cross-up :mk: and CQB you to death. This is because his Tornado throw will throw you back in the corner. And since you cannot Quick Stand after a throw, he will be given the option to correctly time his cross-up every time he lands it on you.
Your main focus of this match is dependant on how well you can zone him (the obvious), and how well you can profit from hunting him down when he has his Ultra.
The reason why I say you should become more aggressive when he has his Ultra is because of your ability and ease to be more explosive/random with TU FADC. Unless he baits for it. Most Abel players land their Ultra through a poor Tiger Shot, or after c.:hp: to launch you.
Study it, and notice how most of the methods used to land his Ultra are from CQB FADC c.:hp:. While he can still c.:hp: you if you jump-in, it’s risky for Abel because Sagat’s j.:mp: is a good tool to stuff it out, possibly leading to TU FADC Ultra.
- Find the areas that he uses to play Rock, Paper, Scissors. Stop or avoid it.
- If he’s sitting comfortably in front of you, he’s in good rolling or cross-up distance.
- If you get caught by his c.:hp: roll c.:hp: roll combo. After the second roll, it’s rock, paper, scissors.
- Keep your rhythm, because it’s harder for Abel to keep his. Tiger Uppercut FADC is the best rhythm interrupter tool in the game. Use it wisely[/details]
Akuma - 5/5 [need data]
Balrog (Boxer)- 6/4
From Thegame4ever: This match is about keeping rog away, and if he comes close to make him wish he hadn’t. If a bit farther than midscreen throw low tiger shots and high to catch him when he tries to advance with headbutt, and if around midscreen throw slow and fast tigershots to mess his timing on his turnpunch. Watch out for his EX, you can either s.RH (doesn’t work on all his ex punches for two hits), medium kick tigerknee (breaks focus and hits ground), or my personal favourite backwards grab. Throw them to the other side to get your fireball pressure restarted, and make him work to close in again.
Up-close tigerknee pressure can be used to great effect against rog, his hitbox seems to be perfect, just standing far jab, tigerknee light, repeat. The standing far jab catches them if they try to jump (as opposed to standing light kick), hits them when crouching or standing, and is the correct distance for safe tiger knee. However if he blocks your tigerknee standing i believe you can be punished, so be cautious. In the corner he can be trapped with tiger knees, after each tiger knee or before you perform one, look out for ex headbutt and act accordingly. And don’t forget your TU deep, since it beats any jump-ins rog tends to use. Also word of advice, do not focus, if he is jabbing it will beat you, and many of his attacks break focus. Also when knocked down do not go for a cross, he can headbutt away safely. Simply attack him head on with an overhead, low lightkick, or grab, and watch out for his headbutt reversal.
Rog can also catch you with a dash ultra if you throw a tigershot and he anticipates it, so if he has an ultra do not be predicatable with tigershots and throw them sparsely.[/details]
Blanka - 6/4
I’ll keep this short and sweet, because honestly, I have no idea why this was ever considered a bad match for sagat.
Like every character, find out of your opponent has a 3 frame move… Blanka does not. That means up close you can spam crouching lp into ts to push him back and there’s nothing he can do about it.
At the start of the match I dash backwards. This is the best way to start the match. Most blanka’s will do a lp blanka ball into grab, or start with a slide. If you back dash he can’t do either and he’s open for punishment. He also can’t jump in on you or do anything really. The reason why you don’t jump back is because on the way down you can be hit by a fierce blanka ball. Dash back is your best option.
During the match spam low ts’s, all day. Make blanka want to jump in - tiger uppercut him. That alone… is enough advice to never lose to blanka.
Punish his blanka balls with tu’s on reaction, the damage adds up. If you see an EX blanka ball coming, block high, punish with low EX ts.
If he does rainbow ball (comes at you in an arc motion) you can focus, dash up and combo him - or block, then raw ultra him. Depending on the distance, the rainbow ball can be a cross up - but can be punished the same. Just block accordingly.
if your tiger uppercut reaction timing is weak, you can focus attack jump ins because blanka jumps high, and his roundhouse puts his long feet out first. By the time you absorb the hit, and he lands, you have already released focus and he’s crumpled.
Like most matches, do not jump. Especially in this matchup.
Do not cross him up on wakeup, the noob will spam punch and shock you or blanka ball with up + kick for a hit.
All you have to do is zone, and when he’s in slide distance, fake tiger shots. As much as you can focus attack and punish a slide, I wouldn’t hold focus at slide distance, too many of blanka’s moves do armor break and he also has that dash move where he hops in your face and can grab you before you can release focus (fwd + 3 punch). Also, depending on the distance of the slide, it’s safe on focus. Only a deep slide can be punished with a focus attack. It’s just not worth focusing in this matchup really when you have so many better options to choose from.
Blanka’s ultra is a joke unless your opponent can do the ambigous cross up ultra on your wakeup. But, then again, I only met 1 person who could do this right. This is how you block the normal ultra.
startup: block low because the ground is shocked - you don’t take damage at this point, but you get stunned and can’t move.
2nd phase: block high, this is when the blanka ball ultra leaves the ground. If you block low you will get hit.
3rd phase: block low again
Punish with your ultra right back.
Also - a lot of people get chipped to death from blanka’s ultra. If you have ultra, you can ultra him back for free. Do your ultra so you can hit him when the blanka ball is in the air, go to training mode and practice this. You will never lose to him again.
Blankas love to do River Run (that slide move) so when you’re in that range, use focus to absorb -> free ultra. Smart Blankas will use ball to break your focus, so be prepared to cancel out of it. To land the focus, wait till he hits you with the slide, then wait an extra second before releasing. If you release too early, you will whiff.
Also, Blankas love to do full screen EX-ball hoping to catch you in the middle of a TS. If you block high, then do reversal EX-TS, it is a guarantee hit. The timing is strict, and you MUST block high. Blocking low doesn’t work because you will still be in hit stun. This has something to do with the fact that when you block high your hit box size changes, and Blanka’s ball hits at a different active frame, thus giving you enough time to get the EX-TS off before he recovers.
Also, if Blanka does Ultra at point-blank range, you can use EX-TU to get over it and not take the chip damage. Sometimes you can even trade, but the timing for trading is difficult.
For ambiguous cross-up, there’s a Blanka player here that does it nearly every time. After a forward throw, walks up a bit and unleashes ultra. It’s a 50/50 mixup, you can’t tell where it’s going really, you can try guessing, but sometimes what was a cross before at the same distance isn’t now. I was in training with this Blanka trying it out and I couldn’t guess correctly each time no matter how many times we did it, it truly is 50/50. If you’re in that situation and you have an EX bar try ex shoryuken to get out since you don’t want to get caught in guessing, but sometimes the ex shoryuken goes out the direction the ultra was going, and you’ll be hit by his ultra on the way down.
Also for a blocked ultra, to punish with most damage, after you’ve blocked low then high, block low again, and as soon as his last hits finish with the ultra and you’re in a crouching poisition, f+rh twice immediately then ultra for maximum punish. You have to be in a crouching position at the end of his ultra or your f+rh won’t connect. And if no ultra, just f+rh twice ex hado etc.
Cammy - 6/4
From r00ster: if she cannon drills from far away do a focus attack and just tiger uppercut her aerials. That should about do it if you get a trade or a focus crumple you can take 30%+ from poor old cammy. Be careful about using to many tiger shots if she focuses one and then does her ultra and catches you it can hurt
You are probably getting fucked up by jab jab short spiral arrow cannon spike, cancel, cannon spike nonsense. just fucking block!
- Throw low tiger shots all day, make her jump, DP her.
- Don’t jump in at her, she has a DP move.
- Hooligan throw: HOLD DOWN BACK, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN TO YOU. PROMISE!!!
- Bait random cannon spikes.
- “The only consistent thing I’ve seen is punishing her Cannon Drill with a tiger uppercut.” no shit, your TU is an anti-air. her cannon drill comes from the sky (might have the terms mixed up, but i think spiral arrow is low, cannon spike is a dp, and cannon drill is that aerial looking spiral arrow).
- I assume you’re playing on xbox live and getting whooped up on… That being the case, don’t try to throw her, the kid on the other end of the interwebs is mashing DP whenever you’re close and you keep getting hit… block!
- When you block her super and ultra, block low.
From Neemo6: Kara tu (hk version) connects after blocked cannon spike. [/details]
Chun Li - 6/4
You win the fireball war hands down, and ChunLi has a nice high jump giving you plenty of time to react to a TU. Up close chuns after throwing a fireball or seeing you throw one like to do flip kick over hadouken and hit you. If a Chun is up close I keep focusing and backdashing. If they happen to flip kick you can give em your focus combo of choice, even if it’s EX. Just keep zoning for the first part of the match. The second part is when they have ultra, meaning you can’t zone as well as you like. An important thing to pay attention to when they have ultra is if they walk forward. This means they have lost the charge to perform an ultra, so in this case throw your hadouken, most chuns relish the fact the opponents dont throw any hadoukens at all when they have ultra, but show them you know exactly when to throw it and they’ll start to just camp and not walk, meaning it’s time for you to attack. On knockdown if Chun has no meter it’s free pressure, but if she has meter try to bait her EX spinning kick by doing an early empty jump as a cross, jumping neutral MK, or doing a short, then blocking. You can either sweep to continue okizeme pressure, or tiger uppercut.[/details]
Crimson Viper - 5/5
From PlayGroundLegend: I start each round off with a jumping fierce punch in her direction. Now, I never start off with a move in a match unless it’s:
I normally just walk back casually and assess the situation.
In this match up it makes sense. I like to stay close to her. If you’re far away she has more options, sorta like Akuma. You can try to fireball her when she seismo’s full screen, but it could be a fake seismo feint into mahvel jump flame kick. So I take the guessing out of the match, and rush her down.
So, if my jumping fierce punch meets her in the air, I’m close and I already did damage, sweet. If she’s on the ground and blocks, it’s st.lk into knee / ts. Or if hits her on the ground, combo her. 99% of vipers walk back off the start or jump in the air trying to get a quick knock down. They usually don’t expect a sagat jump in.
I always approach each match as follows. Does the player have a 3 frame move? http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/...)#Frame_Data no she does not that means, up close I have the advantage.
Her advantage up close is that she has hella safe block strings and you can’t focus attack her up close for fear of thunder knuckle. Sorta like how you can’t charge focus in front of sagat because you will eat a fat tiger knee to your dome piece. The viper cop out up close is an ex seismo that leaves you invincible - and most scrubs want to punish it, throw out a limb, get caught, get ultra’d.
Her best options are when you are on the ground. This starts the “ambiguous cross-up” flame kick bullshit. Basically, if she does the head shock, and stands still, then flame kicks, it will hit in front of you, block normally. If she takes a step back, or forward, it’s a cross up flame kick. It’s hard to judge it if you try to look at the move because the fire effect makes seeing anything fucking impossible, so you have to study the character in order to know how to beat her, like fuerte, shit is stupid. That’s why when people say I’m lame for playing sagat I tell them to eat a dick because I had to learn matchups, so I know how to play 8 other characters proficiently. There are some things match videos and forum posts won’t teach you. Spacing.
You need to learn her block strings, and you can’t mash DP during them, just don’t do it. If there was ever a match where you don’t want to get caught mashing DP it’s this one, and seth, both characters are stun machines. It’s not worth it. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=175007 read this thread.
I know you really want to, but you can’t use tiger uppercut in this match, unless it’s a kara dp with meter or a random dp with meter trying to land your ultra. If she jumps in, she can always spam flame kick and move out of the way, you basically have to guess if a DP would work or not, and if you guess wrong you eat a combo for stun damage, and then you’re on the ground, leading to more combos and more stun till you see birdies.
The majority of her combos start low, but viper has an overhead attack, so you can’t just crouch block all day. Thing is, the overhead is slow as shit and you see it coming from a mile away. The match up ends up being sorta like a cammy match where you are crouch blocking strings, and guessing when to tech a throw, guess wrong get combo’d, block wrong get thrown on the floor. So the best bet is to be putting the pressure on yourself, and not letting the skinny skank put pressure on you.
Also, F.rh is amazing in this match, because the hoe always wants to jump, but you can’t DP her - and she knows it. She has properties like rufus, gief, honda that make double f.rh almost a 100% constant if you land the first f.rh. You can just throw out random f.rh and be safe with it, because if you throw out f.rh and you end up close enough to her, you can TU on recovery and cancel to safety or cancel into ultra. I would also avoid laggy normals in this matchup. I prefer cr.mp > cr.mk in this match because it comes out as quickly as standing lk and faster than cr.mk. Normally Im a cr.mk kinda guy.
Her best ultra setup is in the corner. I think it’s ex seismo, flame kick, land, ultra. That’s her version of TU fadc ultra. Always be on the look out for that. Also, if you jump in at her, and she uppercuts you, she can uppercut you clean - then ultra you, or trade - dash up and ultra you - or just DP you 2x in a row. So when you get in the corner people always get caught with an ultra one way or the other. Guys get scared, and want to jump out - DP’d ultra. Others try to TS her back or throw out a mk etc. - ex seismo flame kick ultra. Others hold crouch block all day, get cross up flame kicked into ultra too. Just block, perhaps EX knee out of there and grab her - put her in the corner, then reset the match.
I also like to play like an asshole at full screen. I spam fake kicks, jump around back and forth, hold focus, dash out, hold focus release it. Spam crouch. Just do a bunch of stupid shit with my buttons. Basically, I mimic my opponent who’s spamming seismo feints as if to say “You aren’t fooling me, this is how dumb you look - now come fight me pussy.” Also, I never really TS in this match. If I’m really “feeling myself” against a viper player in a tourney, I’ll stop my pressure and throw 3 tiger shots in a row, the kinda that once your first is finished, the 2nd one comes out. The predictable kind. Once I throw the third, I never throw another for the rest of the match. Also, at full screen, they are used to me doing my stupid shit and not tossing fireballs, sometimes it’s not bad if you have the health lead to throw a low EX ts. If she seismo’s you trade, and the trade is in your favor damage wise - and health wise because she has 900 and you have 1200. It’s a win from both perspectives.
If your opponent keeps doing cr.mk into thunder knuckle, just wait it out, it recovers really quick, and does a shit ton of stun. They can do this 3-4x in a row if they feel like it, just block, don’t mash dp, you will get caught.[/details]
**Dan - 7/3 **
Dan isn’t as bad as people make him out to be, he actually owns dhalsim free, whereas it’s a bit harder for sagat haha; but against sagat the battle is hopelessly in sagat’s favor. There are some things you need to know though.
To beat him, just zone him. Nothing else. Dan’s silly looking fireball can’t compete with sagat at all. Punish jump ins with s.rh or tiger uppercut. Do not focus in his face as his hurricane kick breaks focus. Do not jump in at him because he has a DP.
Dan can land ultra from a combo, cr. forward into ex fireball links his ultra. Watch out for that. His ultra goes through fireballs as well. His ultra CAN BE FOCUS ATTACKED which is hilarious! Also, he can ultra cancel his super taunt. That’s when he has full super bar, uses it for a taunt, then goes right into ultra whenever he feels like it because you wanted to punish him.
basically, if he gets in on you, you did something wrong. This match comes down to basics. Fireball, uppercut. If you can fireball and uppercut you will never lose. Just watch out for those unknown ultra tricks I just showed you.
Kinda pointless to mention in a sagat thread as he should never be able to do this on you… but he can do lk hurricane kick, hit you safely with 1 hit from it on block, then go for a grab.[/details]
Dhalsim - 5/5
Ahh this can be a very annoying match. You have to use all your concentration and play very carefully. I tend to turtle and use EX tiger shot when I see a yoga flame for my damage. If he yoga flames only time you should throw tiger shot is with EX. If he jumps do not use TU since he will most likely try to bait and teleport. Your goto anti-air with dhalsim is f+hk. He’ll most likely teleport back to avoid your roundhouse, simply standing roundhouse on his way down, or just block, since at that range his attacks will beat out your f+rh but not s.rh. If he teleports behind you when you f+rh, just standing rh should hit him. Throw dumb uppercuts sometime, but the dhalsim player if good won’t just randomly throw his limbs. S.rh can beat his air-to-ground attack with his limbs clean, but the dhalsim player can catch on and use his air kick later to beat your s.rh clean, so you have to be careful. Also for tigerkneed teleports, standing mp will beat him clean, and allow you to pressure. If he does ultra just jump away and don’t take that shit, and if he teleports behind you jump over that ultra, you do not need to block it. If you block his super at close range you can punish with TU, if not close it’s safe on block for him, so be careful. His ultra has nearly instant recovery, so don’t jump at him when he does it, simply away, wait it out. If he does it close range and you have no option but to block, he’ll go for low high mixup, his high being jumping arms, or low being his low distance arm attack, or simply pressure you upclose. He can’t grab you if you’re blocking ultra don’t forget, so just pay attention to sim and the mixups he’ll do. Also annoying thing is when he throws a yoga fire on your okizeme, then teleports. He can either teleport behind you, or teleport in a way that’s makes you block as if it’s a cross, but the yoga flame pushes you BEHIND dhalsim’s teleport area, making it something you have to block normal again. Be very careful of this move, it can be very annoying to block correctly, but if you start playing the match you’ll adapt to which is the cross or his fake cross.
If you manage to score a knockdown all you need is standing light kick, hard kick hadouken. Dhalsim loves to teleport to escape from pressure, if he teleports he gets hit by hadouken on recovery, if not he gets hadouken chip damage, and more pressure afterwards. Win-Win for you, and mix this up with jump-ins. Dhalsim will tend to stop teleporting on wakeup after you hit him with hadoukens from this setup. And never jump on dhalsim if he’s open, and if you do do it sparsely with jumping fierce. All his anti-air options can beat you clean, and his slide can be really annoying making you whiff entirely then punishing you. And do not do tigerknee pressure a lot, only once then another blockstring ending with low hadouken, since he can escape the pressure and punish you with one of his moves (not exactly sure what it is called, but compare it to ryu’s low middle kick). Play very patiently, hit the combos where it matters most, and EX tiger shot him for every yoga flame he does.[/details]