Tired of combos? Spacing and footsies thread. Evading Morrigan + Missiles


#1

Current general topics

Start of round footsies: Tired of combos? Spacing and footsies thread. Evading Morrigan + Missiles

**Anti air dash footsies: **Tired of combos? Spacing and footsies thread. Evading Morrigan + Missiles

**Anti rapid slash mix up tech: **Tired of combos? Spacing and footsies thread. Evading Morrigan + Missiles

Anti hidden missiles tools: http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/tired-of-combos-spacing-and-footsies-thread-evading-morrigan-missiles/150825page-2#post-7331959

It’s still about bopping people (and/or protecting yourself from the bop).

[media=youtube]hgAqAsuFRNk[/media]

Really if you’re tired of combos one would say to probably just play a different game because this game is about putting people in combos after you hit them for the most part. The only real exception being more zone based teams like Morrigan + Missiles or Hawkeye type teams. You have teams like Mag/Dorm/Missiles or C.Viper based teams that can transition between bopping you into a long combo and zoning or spacing but…for the most part touch and combo is how the game works. Which is why a lot of people that talk about the game on the forums usually have a disposition towards just explaining what they do after they touch somebody with a character (which is generally some type of…combo).

It makes the game seem pretty easy and linear, but that’s really not all to it at all. You have those that heavily support optimizing combos and what not, but more often that not the people who win tournaments in this game are those that don’t flat out optimize their combos. They just optimize their ability to hit you by using their hit boxes to either get in before you can use your hit boxes. It can be as go to simple as run in with bix hit boxes like Wolverine and Wesker or it can be more about flooding up the screen with projectiles so Wolverine and Wesker can no longer put hit boxes on screen without getting hit themselves. The latter being more akin to fireball spacing in other games so you have a path to command your footsies or neutral while they don’t.

Players like Fanatiq and others before him are focused on getting that BOP and avoiding your BOP. You don’t have to know elongated super optimal combos to do this obviously and it will still be the most important knowledge to have to kill fast and early and keep your momentum. You can always reward yourself with optimal combos providing you have enough execution to not regularly drop them. I’m not saying you have to Viscant execution combos, but the game gives you plenty of ways to kill even if you aren’t doing the Magnetic Blast loops after every tiny touch.

One of the other big big things that the neutral and general spacing are supers and assists. Supers and assists both basically allow you to put all types of new “footsies” on the screen and both of them basically allow you to change the frame data of your moves. They also can appear on the screen very fast with not much visual cue (to the point where sometimes you’ll have to use audio cues and these are also very important to know for winning.

Standard throws are important to know about in the game as well because they are 1 frame and are built into most people’s H normals. This dictates a good bit of the footsies and forces you to be strong at anti airing or using your own characters air H or grounded H to tech them. Although throws are 1 frame you still get 7 frames to tech them. Sometimes during ground throw situations you’ll get into a “throw war” where you tech back and forth but you can always stop this by simply jumping and forcing them to whiff an H normal or chicken block their H normal and punish if they don’t cancel it. The easiest punish being a throw (they won’t be able to tech the throw since they are in recovery frames.

**As I add to the thread I’ll add a list of all of the characters and hopefully regularly updated info on how to utilize their own footsies and how their footsies work when combined with assists against other characters and teams. **

Not to mention info on how each character can deal with the start of the round which is basically the most important part of the round.


Need more UMvC3 friends (360)
#2

DJ thinks neutral game is important? HOLY SHIT WHAT?!


#3

Me against any air dasher in the game at a long distance.

Dash forward > crouch > whiff a light intentionally > dash back > long range poke

Works almost everytime. They see you take the initiative to go on the offensive. When you whiff the normal, you give them enough time for them to notice they can now attack, but because it’s a light and I was not planning on doing anything else, I just dash back and punish the tri-jump attempt. Dashing forward, waiting, and then dashing backwards just baits a lot of things.

And if you have a decent assist with vertical range (Ryuenjin, Wolverine’s SRK, Shoryuken, Chun’s up kicks), anti-air + assist saves your ass a ton of times. Whiff the anti-air, assist covers you, and if your character can combo easily off them (Doom, Dante, Zero with buster, Wolverine, Vergil, Magneto, Felicia etc.), you get profit most of the time. In this game you can’t afford to whiff an anti-air if you don’t have something like Magneto’s s.:l:.

Baiting air moves works really good for me. Purposely getting underneath Haggar or Dante, then just reacting to the jump and anti-airing from the back (watch out for random back hitboxes though).


#4

Also, forgot one thing.

Whenever I am home and there’s no way to go play with real players, I always play against the CPU in “normal” difficulty. They get hit often enough for me to practice combos and they block/pushblock things enough to know the positions I end up in after blockstrings. Most importantly though, I get to try out my anti-airs and other pokes’ spacing and see what they can punish (well, playing Zero, Magneto and Dante, I don’t have to worry about anti-airing that much).

If you are lucky, the CPU may help you discover things you didn’t know in the past. I discovered Buster>Lightning was unsafe day 2 in vanilla because a CPU kept punishing me for doing it.


#5

tired of getting your ass beat? run away and throw stuff thread


#6

The only neutral I do in this game is :f::h:


#7

Do you play Nova?

When people talk about punishing buster into lightning are they mainly talking about just when Zero shoots the buster out in the open then lightnings after it? Is it just a matter of s.Ling or air throwing in the middle? I’m going to assume it’s not as simple if he’s doing it on your welcome.

I know you played a good bit of Marvel 2 so you’ll be pretty useful for this thread. What would you consider the main differences in footsies/spacing between 2 and 3? Do you feel the start of round was more oppressive in Marvel 2 or 3 and why? I know for sure people feel that air throws take away from some of the air footsies of Marvel 2, but I think that’s why they made ground moves strong for AA to compensate.


#8

Another good thread. Hope it doesn’t fall to the bottom again to people posting junk threads.


#9

What’s the best neutral game strategy for characters with slow normals going against characters with fast, long range, and/or all around better normals?


#10

What characters specifically are you using? Particularly the point character.


#11

Thor fighting against anyone with a sword, ie everyone that’s a bad match up for him.


#12

Well the hardest part is going to be the start of the round which I was going to get into eventually any ways. I’m sure he has one of the slower walk speeds and doesn’t have any non special aerial movement options. You’ll probably just want to jump forwards and backwards and try to call a fast assist before the round starts while setting up a mighty strike. If they’re close enough for an air grab then you’ll just want to try to throw or tech throw and go from there.

Hidden missiles, Lariat or Akuma Tatsu assists could help with the start of the round stuff. Pretty much any team where I have a non super optimal point character I add one of those 3 assists to the point character.

From what I’ve heard others say the only thing he has that’s close to a normal or footsie is mighty strike. Not sure of the exact priority it has vs. sword normals but I would imagine it would trade at worst. IIRC the fully charged mighty strike gets a point of super armor also.

I would also ask AceKillah or Duck Strong since they both use or used to use him.


#13

Reposted from an earlier thread.

Watch Filipino Champ to get an idea for start of round Magnus stuff.

Basically with Magneto there are some characters start of round where you better either be right next to them getting a throw/H attack hit confirm ready or jump backwards to get ready to air dash out and get something going later after you get away.** Remember you can walk or regular jump (characters that can double or triple jump have an advantage here) in whatever direction possible with those options before the round starts so use that for positioning advantage before FIGHT appears on screen.** Any character that can double or triple jump has strength here because since they aren’t super jumping they can call an assist while being pretty high in the air at the start.

These are markers for all of the starts to every round. This should help you pin point different ways to start the round. You’ll notice that he goes back and forth between moving forward (usually if Infrit moves forward) or moving back them jumping backwards and setting up missiles + projectiles to get spacing set up.

1st http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=06s

2nd http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=2m17s

3rd http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=5m32s

4th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=8m12s

5th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=10m15s

6th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=13m49s

7th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=17m30s

8th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=20m50s

The main way to get people into a mix up is to force them to deal with something that’s difficult to deal with even when pushblocked. Basically using your magnetic blasts (air u,uf,f+atk) in conjunction with your assists is the best way to get this set up. If you can get them to block a magnetic blast that can set up the advantage you need to have your assist land on them which they can’t pushblock you away from and then get mix ups into damage. You’re basically just trying to get them pinned down with one or the other or both.

With hidden missiles this can even work even if you’re in a situation where you get hit as long as the missiles fall down.

http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=10m21s

In that he enacts a fuzzy guard situation off the missiles that Infrit’s Nova was forced to block. Essentially you do a high/low mix up then immediately j.L after they block the low so their hit box is forced to stay standing. This makes it so essentially the overhead is harder to block since you can enact the overhead much faster than if they were in a typical correct crouched position. This is a very scary mix up since you can’t use your crouch box to give you extra time to react to the overhead. Magneto can just throw his foot at you from the top of his air dash and you have to block even though you are holding crouch.

Landing the first hit in this game is very important even with XF3 because you have more options with XF1+2 characters than XF3. Especially since the welcome mix up you receive from the next character coming in is important towards killing off the team before they can get shit started. Domino effect etc. The start of the round is the most important footsie you’ll make in the match so make it count.

I’d really like to further delve into this with the other cast and the assist options available. I feel like Akuma’s Tatsu, Frank’s Cart, Doom’s Missiles, Haggar’s Lariat and Hulk’s AA crush are all solid options to have to help you with the start of round footsies without having to use a bunch of movement options.


#14

what are general strategies for the neutral game when fighting zero. I use nova/spencer/mags and that is my worst matchup like im at a loss for what i need to do in this fight.


#15

Lol, thread title is “tired of combos?” and then the first post is like “get used to combos.” Lol.


#16

while i applaud the effort, you really cant teach or practice footsies

thats something you learn just by playing


#17

That was done intentionally. The whole point is that I’m not necessarily saying that combos aren’t a big basis of the game, but if all you know is combos you’re not going to go very far in a tournament. The situations that lead to the combos is generally way more important than the combos themselves since if you don’t know the situations you won’t land any minus getting lucky swings that may win you one match at best.

Well Marvel spacing games can get pretty complicated and with other games the spacings are generally discussed even if it takes a lot of muscle memory and trial and error to do it consistently. There’s always that little something that you can learn that you can use that you aren’t doing already. Even if you don’t have the cleanest spacing game it’s good to know all of the potential tools first since especially if you’re picking up a new character it may not be immediate for you to figure out all of them.

Some of it can involve little tech that you won’t just find going HAM against people or in training mode also.


#18

My toesies>your footsies.


#19

It wasn’t really a criticism or anything I just found it ammusing lol. This thread should yield some interesting discussion I hope, you are right there is a lot more to be understood than bread and butter.


#20

Yeah I figured as much I just put that out there either way. I’ll just put more effort to keep it up than I did the last couple threads and that should take care of that.

Anti rapid slash mix up pushblock tech.

[media=youtube]q-EAo3FIHyQ[/media]

Could be some other interesting applications for this.