Tired of it: Reversal DPS on wakeup in SF4


#1

I AM FUCKING TIRED OF THIS BULLSHIT.

How in the FUCK do you deal with reversal DPS? i cant do it in this fucking game.

In SF2 and 3rd strike it wasnt a problem because DPs werent invincible for a fucking year and the reversal window wasnt 100 fucking years long.

How do yo do it? Seriously? When i watch videos of the pros they never reversal dp on wakeup, at least, most of the time they dont

[media=youtube]4wztOjuYsv8#t=0m30s[/media] - if i was that honda i woulda been reversal dped no doubt

[media=youtube]yGS5b6SK4FM&feature=related#t=0m41s[/media] - no wakeup dp again from daigo, yet if i were that akuma i woulda been fucked

[media=youtube]AuM60G3fyRA#t=1m04s[/media] yet another one where he does dp

[media=youtube]AuM60G3fyRA#t=1m54s[/media] yet another moment where i would have been dpedl.

Now the point im getting at is, that, the pros play it safe, they play it alot like SF2, game starts out, people do safe things to feel out their opponent, some players like to rushdown but you get the idea. Then BAM knockdown, now the person on the ground is in a bad spot, because they have to guess right at what the opponent is going to do.

THIS IS HOW I WANT TO PLAY.

But the minute i knock someone down, no matter what i go for i get reversal dp. And yes, i know i can block, but my point is, if i block a whole bunch i miss out on times that they dont DP, and it seems like a waste. I didnt have to block a reversal in SF2 or 3? why? because they werent invincible for so long, so my point is.

Why dont the pros reversal DP on wakeup more often? Is it because they know the opponent can block it and get big combos in? Doesn’t seem to be the case being that the opponents almost ALWAYS do something to someone on the ground, making a reversal dp very useful.

Is it because i am wrong and meaty attacks exist in this game? It seems that they dont being that i spent literally days of playtime in training mode trying to do meaties, and safe jumps, but i still get reversal dp every single time. How the fuck do you deal with this?

Why cant my online games be more like the pros? where its a chess match, it seems that no matter what i do, the minute i score a knockdown, THE GUY WHO IS STANDING IS AT A DISADVANTAGE. Please help me.


#2

i should also note, that in those videos, i didnt really have to search hard, i typed in “daigo” in youtube and pulled up the first 3 videos in SF4, daigo never once reversal dped when he was on the ground. WHY!?! and WHY DO MY OPPONENTS ONLINE FEEL THE NEED TO AND HOW DO I MAKE IT STOP.


#3

People who don’t get DP’d don’t throw out obvious DP bait and safe-jump or do something that beats reversals on untechable knockdowns. The former is a matter of the risk:reward not being worth it in high level play, the latter is a matter of knowing what you’re doing. Of course, some people don’t care about risk:reward and are just going to keep going for that Shoryuken anyways.

Truth be told blatant meaties are dangerous as fuck at a certain point in ST as well.


#4

even crossups get dped which is BS. Safe-jumps? They exist? As for attacks the beat reversals on untechable knockdowns that seems interesting. When i look on the forums of the different characters why does nobody ever mention anything like this?

Seriously,

i main Balrog,
ALt: Rufus/ryu

Help me out, help me beat DPs.


#5

Don’t stand right in front of your opponent when they are waking up?


#6

Block and punish until the other guy stops doing wake-up srk or until you win.


#7

If you block a wakeup DP, you have a window to punish with a 300+ damage combo.

Do this, and they’ll think twice before using wakeup DP. If they’re still DPing on wakeup, keep blocking and punishing for massive damage. You can make it even safer by dashing backwards on their wakeup instead. This is good if you can’t tell if they’ve learned anything or not. If they DP, you’ll still be in range to punish. Well-spaced and timed crossups work too. If you really want to mess them up, throw out your own invincible special move. I do this out of spite when they’re too obvious.

You only meaty when you’re trying to mindfuck an opponent. You don’t meaty as a first option in SFIV unless you know your opponent doesn’t wakeup DP.

Don’t try safejumps online. You’ve got to deal with a ridiculously small and laggy margin of error if you do.


#8

Dont try safe jumps? how am i supposed to play rufus then? it seems that dive kick is the most fucking useless move in the game when it gets reversaled every time. I just dont get it. I guess ill try not trying to do something crazy the first time i knock someone down and just wait to see what they do. I didnt know backdashes worked, i seem to always get dped anyway.


#9

reversal DPs suck in this game and you should never get hit by them. You should do safe actions and if they reversal DP, combo or ultra.


#10

But what ARE safe actions? That is what i am asking you guys, what is the timing for safe jumps in this game? Not kidding, DAYS WORTH OF PLAYTIME IN TRAINING, and i could never do it more than a few times. Is it like a 1 frame window? Meaties dont exist it seems if i try a meaty c.mk or something it gets dped easily. I want to capitalize on the opponent being on the ground like the pros do, its the weirdest thing.

I am shit online or against some random guy.
But i honestly think i would be able to hold my own, would i win? no of course not, but at least hold my own against the pros.


#11

Don’t overestimate your skill.


#12

Block them.


#13

Bait, punish, await hate mail.


#14

you can’t play randoms online the same way as you would offline for 2 reasons.

  1. lag
  2. they are randoms

The problem with a ton of random players online is the fact that they are scrubby. While you are trying to incorporate some sort of mindgame and mix them up on wakeup with meaties and various other tactics, all they are thinking about is REVERSAL UPPER, REVERSAL UPPER. Then what happens is you play down to their level. You know that they are going to reversal upper so all you do is bait and punish. over and over and over again.

When you play, you think of move X having Y properties that will put you in Z situations. They aren’t. So you change your game drastically to adapt to their playstyle which hurts yours in the end.

Plus, you are playing IV. Huge reversal window and lenient motions make it so that pretty much everyone can reversal upper.


#15

Don’t try to fuck with shotos on wakeup unless you know what you’re doing :confused:
It’s not hard to teach them a lesson if you just bait it but hey, you obviously haven’t learned yours


#16

Trying to safejump a DP is a VERY small window. Far smaller than any other move in the game. SFIV with it’s ridiculous, possibly variable input delay online will mess you up anytime and every time.


#17

You can’t safe jump against Ryu and Ken’s uppercuts. If you whiff a move right before you land, you have 4 frames of recovery. That’s exactly the same startup time for their uppercuts.

You can however safejump against Sagat and Balrog. Its noticeably easier against Balrog.


#18
  1. Definitely learn the timing to crouch tech on their wakeup.

  2. Mixup your pressure game on their wakeup.

  3. Condition them to the idea that wakeup SRK = big punish, THEN you can carefully start to meaty on their wakeup.

  4. Backdashes have invulnerability…quite a bit actually…learn the proper timing but don’t overuse this tactic.


#19

You’re totally right, Alex Ville was just on here yesterday talking about how he has no game against wakeup shoryus.

Really though, block and punish. They’ll stop throwing them out on wakeup.

Crossovers done properly don’t get hit with wakeup shoryus. There are frames on the turn-around animation. If they are facing the wrong way on your cross-up attack, they shoryu the air opposite of where you were just coming from.

If they are just doing wakeup shoryus every time, then in all honesty the wakeup pressure isn’t the best option anymore. Punish that shit to get them to stop and then mix that up with your wakeup game. If they don’t stop punish it until you win. Something has to give in that scenario.


#20

you cannot safe-jump characters with 3 frame invincible moves in this game. ryu’s DP is a 3 frame invincible move.

edit: whoops, someone else already covered it.