Tournament Play and the possibility of "Balance Patches"


#1

So anyone watching NEC this weekend has seen quite a bit of a certain guy with a badass trench coat and some designer shades. Like in almost every match. With some players losing matches and swapping to a Wesker team out of frustration / desperation. And using snapbacks on Wesker being commonplace to avoid the dreaded “Dark Wesker”. What other character has this type of pull / power currently? Even someone who has Wesker as their worst character is a huge threat with him while glowing red.

Everyone knows that he is top tier in UMvC3, and better than in Vanilla. But will this type of representation in tournament play affect the possibility that Capcom might have to correct a mistake?

This happened with Sentinel due to his high health (highest in Vanilla when it launched if I remember right) but Wesker is flat out ridiculous. He has the damage of a glass cannon with a million HP and teleports.

I’m NOT calling for a nerf here (though I think losing the glasses buff would be a good idea) but is this the type of thing that Capcom will be looking at? This comes right on the tail end of AE, which was flat out dominated by team Hong Kong and had Capcom publicly see if people wanted a patch. Or is this another example of Capcom actually wanting a “broken” character (or more accurately a character that the scene can root against, which was certainly the case @ NEC) represented in the game? He is a principal villain in the Capcom games after all.

Constructive thoughts and not just “Nerf / Buff Wesker”, or It’s “MAHVEL it’s supposed to be broke” please.

edit: Info from Get Your Tournament says that in the top 12 there were 28 different lineups used. 23 of them included Wesker. That’s a little more than 82%.

2nd edit: I’m apparently a 2-8 matchup on basic spelling.


#2

Capcom like “why should we patch UmvC3 Seth?! have you taken a look at the sells? fix yo face fuck outta here, Gems are the future”


#3

The mistake actually is IMO the changes to the system that happen to make a very good character the answer to practically every team building problem.

  1. DHC glitch gone so the need for “glue” DHCs (full screen supers that ideally do decent damage) is at a premium. There aren’t that many of these in the game. Also not saying that the DHC glitch didn’t need to GTFO but it certainly wasn’t the world beating bogeyman that some made it out to be.

  2. The changes to HSD make Samurai Edge the best answer for extending combos. This one is actually kind of funny as I thought before UMvC3 came out that (almost) every character having a viable OTG would reduce the demand for Samurai Edge but due to the change to have assists count towards HSD it actually makes more sense to use the single hitting Samurai Edge rather than the characters own OTG into an assist that hits multiple times before a re-launch.

Yes, when vanilla MvC3 launched Sentinel had the highest health in the game. It would also seem that in hindsight with the change to chop his health that Capcom nerfed a B tier character. Wesker may or may not need some tweaks but I would seriously hope that Capcom gives the game more time to develop before they make another mistake with premature nerfjactulation. Let’s have this conversation again in 6+ months.


#4

I do agree that we need to see what happens a year from now or around EVO 2012. For all we know, we might have some sleeper characters in-waiting to take the spotlight that are about as scary as Wesker. I mean, we’ve seen what Spencer is capable of. I think Capcom won’t make immediate changes (like they did with the Sent health nerf) since the majority who bought UMvC3 were familiar with the Vanilla version and enjoyed it to a certain degree. Wasn’t it mostly the casuals/new players who complained about Sentinel non-stop?

I don’t know how much Capcom will care about the game honestly since they probably want to concentrate on making SFxT a huge success to casuals. 2012 is going to be a BIG year for fighting games.


#5

if he continues to win mainstream tournies I think a patch will come. tbh I think the game is a hell of alot better, X-factor is still strong as fuck but over all it is better and part of the game that you just gotta accept if you wanna play marvel 3 but Wesker is a problem there were certain people in that top 8 at NEC that should not of been there. Not gonna mention names but I’m sure people that follow whats goin on know… everytime wesker wins now it almost feels worse than when vanilla dark phoenix would win. A few showed Wolvie is still very powerful so be prepared to start to see people picking him up again but still I think he is fine… he’s just powerful. Wesker on the other hand is OVERpowerful.


#6

Sooooo, we start patching stuff again cause Wesker is running the show? again

Is that what passes for a nerf candidate these days? Granted, I don’t like Wesker either but like pre-patch Sentinel, he isn’t the best character and doesn’t need tweaking just cause everyone uses him.

I’d hate to see what kinds of nerfs people will propose for Hulk and Spencer when those two start to develop in the tourney scene.


#7

I still wouldn’t patch Wesker, he is a problem…it could change. I don’t want them to just focus on Wesker. They should focus on getting Heroes and Herald.

Fuck Balance, I want that DLC mode.


#8

I totally agree that UMvC3 is a hell of a lot better game than Vanilla MvC3.

Again, I’m more interested in gauging response to whether or not this is now the type of thing to expect with Capcom (or other developers) if there becomes a clearly (over)powerful character that the community seems to root against. I’m not calling for nerfs, and will continue to play UMvC3 (sans Wesker even!) if this is indeed the final version of the game, happily. There are WAY more viable characters worth playing now than in Vanilla, most of the additional characters are great.

I wrote this while watching the NEC stream, and mainly due to seeing Wesker get the same treatment folks had with Phoenix in Vanilla, changing teams to include said character after a loss and snapping in. Other than snapping in a massively bleeding assist to remove the life entirely, snap-ins on Wesker (to prevent gaining level 3 X-factor and to remove as a assist) was the only example of a character getting that treatment / respect.


#9

Give him a pointless nerf like they did sentinel(he did masive damage, so they nerf his health?) Wesker does massive damage, has mixup, and built in x factor so…slowdown his gun shot? In all seriousness though I think we should just chill and let the game develop before demanding a patch. The game hasn’t even been out for a month.


#10

I would like to see a nerf, personally.

I don’t see Wesker coming down on the charts naturally…
He is too solid, has loads of tools, a godlike assist, dat crazy glasses buff…and pretty much every top player is using him, so eventually they’ll find some new tech, and he will probably just grow stronger…

Don’t need to get all crazy and break his legs, just give the man the Sentinel treatment… people still play Sent even after he got his health nerfed, yo


#11

It’s Sentinel all over again. It’s not going to last. You also forgot to mention EVERYONE playing sloppy at NEC. There was no exception. Everyone was dropping combos and getting hit with all kinds of shit.


#12

After seeing all people dropping combos like it was day -50 of Vanilla… I say, LET THE GAME EVOLVE…


#13

Spencer already has hate, difference is, it takes more skill to use him efficiently (flame shield up) than wesker. Spencer is far more broken in terms of options, damage, and x-factor than wesker IMO. Thing is no one wants to take the time to learn him properly.

Does Wesker deserve a nerf as of right now? Absolutely. As does Vergil and Spencer, But I’m inclined to go against my own gut saying that he needs the nerf and I’,m going to say give this at least until Jan-Feb of next year. We need more than 1 (major) tourney to give us the results of how broken wesker (or others) really are.


#14

I was wondering when the first post-NEC whine thread was going to appear

Though I’ll admit I’m pleasantly surprised at how civilized this thread is


#15

All this Wesker hate. I don’t think he’s that bad.

Taskmaster is where the broke shit is at.

Nerf him.

Remove his cape.


#16

We need to approach this the wesker way of nerfing…

[details=Spoiler] BY REMOVING ARTICLES OF CLOTHING, BONUSES ARE GRANTED!!!
Remove his cape for 200% increased throw range and every normal option selecting into a grab.


#17

Again people overlooking XF3 being the main problem just like people did with Sentinel and Phoenix.

watch XF3 blow ups

OMG THOSE CHARACTERS ARE TOO GOOD, NERF THEM EVEN THOUGH XF3 IS TO BLAME FOR WHY THEY ARE SO STUPID

You guys never learn.


#18

Taskmaster’s alt costume puts him in permanent XF3, obviously.

He got that superspeed going on, just like in the Udon comic.

Edit: Also XF3 is way stronger now that momentum in this game isnt as strong (thank fucking god) and you can’t plow your way through a team by x-factoring through the first character and mauling their second (and probably third) character. It requires resources and a good combo to kill a character off a touch instead of being completely free, and that drastically makes XF3 the best option in most scenarios because it gives you the largest benefit outside of birthdays for winning since it’s very possible you will escape whatever set they’ve got on you while coming in, and even if they do land it the likelihood of them being able to kill you off it is low enough to favor saving XF3 due to the hitstun scaling changes.

Wesker is a problem in the sense that there is literally no downside on putting him as anchor on your team because he has team functionality, and doesn’t require ANYTHING to be a XF3 monster. Without x-factor he’d still easily be in the top tier of the game due to how the system changes all favor his playstyle, alongside his major damage buff (due to glasses). Air XF also lets him escape meaty setups relatively safely and once he’s free for even one moment he gets to get out safely and start pressing buttons.

also, people are focusing too much on the glasses buff. it’s significant in that he does about 300k more damage in his bnbs BUT it’s not a game altering factor with him. even without it he’d still be the exact same problem because they contribute very little to what makes him strong in the first place.


#19

Rather than nerf Wesker, just buff the damage output on the non-heavy B-Tier and below characters :stuck_out_tongue: Hell if Iron Man can’t hit a building 90 percent of the time then let him hit hard when he does.


#20

There were a lot of knee jerk nerfs in Vanilla so you just don’t know.

Wesker got some indirect buffs with air XF and the fact that other assists have been nerfed combos. Forcing people to put Wesker on their team to extend combos via his OTG assist that doesn’t scale.

I would like them to just put the assists back to their old status for combos. There was no real reason to nerf that because all it does is make Wesker look better.

Overall though NEC is just the first big major and just a representation of a scene that en masse uses Albert.