Training Regimen

vega

#1

What do you guys do to train? I am looking for more stuff to use to level up for Evo. This is basically the kind of stuff I do.

Set CPU (usually Sagat as nearly everything works on him, it’s annoying to deal with his hitbox when he wakes up though) to random block, random tech recover, full ultra, full super, no stun (unless you’re looking for some stun setups).

Normally what I do is basically use him as a punching bag. The reason I choose random block is cause while it may seem useful to practice combos with the CPU getting hit all the time, I find it more useful to initiate them as hit confirm practice FIRST.

What I mean by that is, say you do something like st. lk, c. jab, c. mp on Sagat’s wakeup.

If it hits, hit confirm into EX FBA. If it’s blocked, just switch it up with an EX SHC; not that I’m saying you should do that in an actual match. It’s just, if you get used to being aware of whether someone is getting hit by your combos or not, you hone your reaction time you can become a hit-confirming machine. The only times I have trouble hit confirming is, oddly enough, after I jump in. Sometimes people get hit by a jump in when I realy don’t expect it, and I’ve already sort of ‘primed’ myself to ready a throw after. Unfortunately that’s obviously a terrible reset but those are THE hardest situations to hit confirm something on the fly: especially because vega’s best hit confirms are the 8 framers, c. mk and cl. hp. Sometimes if you react and try to follow up with the confirm the hitstun on the jump in is simply gone. I’ve noticed even Makoto will hit someone with a jump in, then still just back up and CH. That’s kind of the way it is though: people shouldn’t get hit by jump ins anyway.

Which brings me to my next point… All the Vegas I play can’t combo. Ever. Even if they jump in, they always follow up with c. jab. Why? Seriously, everyone should always follow up with c. mk or cl. fp. No point in c. jabbing, those other two moves are far more easy to hit confirm out of and do more damage in every combo. If you jump in and use your move early in the arc to get blockstun, yeah, follow up with c. jab, but not if you have an idea of whether your jump in will connect or not. Besides, cl. fp and c. mk push you farther out which is essentially what you want. Everyone should practice jumping in and hitconfirming with cl. fp and c. mk.

The one way I’m starting to use c. jab is to actually use it from outside RIGHT next to people. I’m really trying to force myself to basically not ever get close to people. c. jab can hit confirm into the same shit from it’s max range, so capitalize on that. In training I usually practice, with random block, c. jab, c. jab, c. mp EX FBA and then c. jab, c. jab, ST. RH. Those are great hit confirm combos that do a lot of damage, and the first combo gives you time to charge.

Since the CPU is on random block, you should react to strings that are blocked and follow up with ideal moves: kara throw, walk up c. jab, walk back safe sweep, CH, PoM, etc. Diversify your pressure game. IF you do it in training and always mix it up, you’re making good habits. Don’t misunderstand though: don’t always press one button after the other. Get used to baiting reversals, too, but of course not in every situation. Vega can still pressure people well, and if you can hit confirm obscure ground combos like the c. jab, jab, mp, EX FBA, or st. lk x 2, c. fp, you can get some impressive damage out of areas you didn’t think you normally would.

But that’s basically the whole point of 90% of the combos I practice in training: st. lk, c. jab, c. mp is so useful because it is an EX FBA hit-confirm from the ground. Anyone can combo EX FBA from a jump in. But Vega’s benefit is that his charge time is so short, you can confirm into EX FBA from only 3 moves, even if the first one is standing. Being able to set up your vortex / safe jump like that is EXACTLY what you need to get around good players who won’t let you jump in in the first place (and EVERY character can deal with jump ins).

When I do jump in, it’s usually after a blocked st. lk or c. jab. The idea is that I sort of trap people, if they counter poke after a st. lk or c. jab characters like Guile who need charge to AA and will have to have INCREDIBLE reactions to stuff a subsequent jump in will be in a bad spot often. Of course, not all the time, but that’s why PoM is such a game-changer versus Balrog and Guile. You can force people to be wary of charging. That’s a must, but takes time to integrate into a game as you simply have to be good at being watchful.

So yeah. Basically my goal in training is to practice as many hit confirms from the ground as I possibly can. ST can’t reliably be hit confirmed into unless you have gdlk execution and feel safe being RIGHT next to ppl as that’s usually the only way it’ll hit after 3 moves, but EX FBA can be combo’d off of everything and don’t forget you can always string your normals together for impressive damage. Get used to walking around while you do this stuff to, but when you use it in actual matches, use your walk speed as a tool. Vega has the best walk speed in the game along with a couple others: use the quick hit confirms to surprise people. This is absolutely essential to high level Vega play imo, and I think will be one of my greatest assets come Evo.

Here’s some more hit confirms I didn’t mention:

c. :mk: c. :mp: EX FBA (Makoto combo. Charge for a tiny second before the c. mk and it works very easily).

c. :mk: st :hk: / c. :hp: : 180 damage! Hard to hit confirm the c. fp usually but tags standing opponents from lightyears away. If up close and they block, kara throw is a great follow up after c. mk. St. HK is really easy to hit confirm into and does really impressive damage like the c. hp, and it hits crouchers which c. hp often won’t unless at close range.

cl. :hp: st. :hk: / c. :hp: : 200 damage. Pretty good, but incredibly situational and best used as a frame trap / hit confirm after jump ins. Does good damage, st. HK doesn’t usualy hit everyone but is easier to hit confirm. cl. hp forces stand so c. hp will always hit.

c. :mk: c :lp: c. :mp: EX FBA. Great hit confirm as a low meaty on someone’s wakeup. Walk around, conceal the charge, and confirm using the short charge time. Does really impressive damage, only problem is this combo is most useful against BAlrog who always pushes you away on his wakeup (fucking stupid glitch).

Also: some Extra Joz Shenanigans.

After a connected ST, you are at perfect distance after a KKK for safe sweep. If that sweep hits, you are at perfect ambiguous CH corpsehop distance. What I like to do when I do these hit confirms is integrate alot of these shenanigans into beatdowns, hit confirming after corpsehops, etc. Integrating corpsehops into real matches is REALLY easy since you have no moves to worry about, they’re knocked down. Just be smart, we all know corpsehops are sort of a “WHOA HOLY SHIT” thing as opposed to consistent ambiguous setups.

Frame trap: late as possible j forward HP or nj HK, early as possible CH: If the jump in connects, the CH will combo. BIIIG damage there from the ST. If the jump in is blocked, the CH is a perfect frame trap: eats mash jab for breakfast. However, this can’t be used for most safe jumps as pressing CH basically makes it unsafe and you need to press it as early as possible, best used for characters like Balrog or Vega who can’t be izuna’d easily and don’t have tech invincible reversals. Eats backdashes on wakeup for breakfast too, but is also highly, highly vulnerable to counter hit crumple focus =. High execution demand, it’s in my combo video.

Frame traps with cl. fp. Like the last combo, but much easier to do, you don’t need to hit the jump in as late as possible. Honestly I don’t know why I figured this out but you just need to have an eye for blockstun. In most cases, your frame traps will combo if the jump in connects (just barely) but will be perfect frame traps if they block. Again, eats mash jab for breakfast. Jump in deep, wait, cl. FP and MP RCF so it’s totally safe. IF you have meter, FADC for big st. RH addon.

Also I practice a lot of RCF, FADC St. RH. I can FINALLY hit it consistently, jab is another story. I kind of gave up on that, only use it against people who really suck.

More shenanigans with the wall: after ST in the corner, delayed FBA can go right under the falling corpse and if they tech recover, it’s a perfectly meaty ambigous grab that will most likely beat / bait reversals and ruins horizontal charge. And of course after st., walk forward, wall jump underneath the falling body for style and to ruin horizontal charge, and generally just to keep opponents on their toes, like a corpsehop.

But yeah, figured I’d share since I hate ranked right now and am just going to be training. Please share some of your secrets as I have shared mine! Good luck everyone


#2

This is great! I’ve been trying to improve my game latelly and this is a great help! Thanks!


#3

I practise similiar to you :’)
My jumpin combo is j.hp, cr.mk, cr.lp, cr.mp EX FBA. It’s pretty easy to hitconfirm and if the combo is blocked I’m at a comfortable range after the cr.lp. From there I like following up with a st.LK, then walking in/out and stopping to see how the opponent reacts to it. Most ppl are afraid of kara throws and start walking back, jumping away, mashing on OS tech etc. I always try and punish that.
You can even try and start st.LK pressure from there.


#4

I play arcade mode and this is what I do even in vanilla:

Boxer: I will practice my backdashes whenever he charges at me

Ryu: Counter fireballs with far MK and practice dash forward U2

Ken: Same

Seth: Practice Izuna grabing (he usually tries a SRK but you can grab it since he never shifts forward or back, he is a good reference point). Focus his fierce and hit on recoil.

Dhalsim: Whenever he does ex-fireball I’ll always focus both hits. Focus his far fierce and hit him on recoil. Jab a far fierce.

Abel: Counter all qcb kick with various moves. Throwing a roll. Izuna grabbing a roll.

Zangief: Back dash alll his run up grabs. Back dash his green fists. Practice 1 frame jab links (if I fail I’ll get grabbed thats my motivation)

Rufus: Practice jump fierce Cross-ups. Practice jab links.

From time to time I would challenge myself to get a win by landing one jab on the CPU then use only movements to achieve a time over. This helps me practice running away and getting where I need to be when I need to be. I would sometimes pretend I was going to attack but then retreat with back dash and react. Very usefull for footsies game. Of course I will even add focus to the mix. I challenge my self to dash behind CPU when they jump or a CH on reaction when they jump to cross-up.

Those are the main highlights for arcade practice. For every other character I usually just practice focus crumble–>U1. U2 is so dead easy theres no need to practice it especially if you already have U1 motion down pat.

My friends and I often practice with me in the corner fending off TK locks. I practice looking for fients and low pokes. I try to mix up back dash, wall jumps and slide kicks to get out of corners safely.


#5

Oh, against FB characters I really like kara focus dash forward! Use it sparingly, but you’ll be surprised how much distance it covers if you were previously walking towards your opponent already.


#6

I wish it was as far as Ken’s tho… his kara focus is OMG O_O far.


#7

Joz, don’t you use cr.lp > cr.lk > Kara Throw/Overhead?

although , if you miss the link you eat srk’s a lot of the time.


#8

Good stuff Joz,

When I’m in the lab training, I mainly focus on my links: cr.jab x3, cr.mp, EX FBA, or linking cr.jab, st.lk, into st.RH as well as other tighter link combos. Hit confirming is something I’m working on, more than a few times I wish I could take back a blocked EX FBA. I’m always working on my kara-throw setups, and trying to break my OS tech habit and instead try to see the throw coming. I also work on getting an izuna drop more consistently.

Also on suggestion from a local player (ShinAkuma204) I’ve been going in some matches just using normal moves. Makes you not get too reliant on your specials (strange I know but this helped me a lot since he told me) improved my footsie game a ton.

Other things I do, also from ShinAkuma204, is I set the cpu to do a move over and over again, just to have it’s animation burned in my head and hear the specific sound it makes, and find ways to counter it, for example, Balrog’s overhead rush punch…Man I get hit by that thing for free!


#9

combos are too hard for me to do. it just causes me to mess up and lose.
i usually focus on mind games as that usually works out very well for me.
as far as training goes i usually only train in vs mode while fighting someone. i rarely enter training mode as i quickly get bored.


#10

i’m working on actively thinking more during matches… it’s really hard

pretty much HAV’s advice.

Think more
Block more


#11

practice ur reaction to fireball and blanka ball with U1

i mainly use U1 and i can ultra on reaction.


#12

you can kara focus???
!
just extrapolating from kara throw would it be hk, mpmk?


#13

I think following a jump in with cr jab is ok, it sets up tick/kara throws and sometimes I use cr lp, cr mp, lp rcf as a blockstring. It seems close enough to be safe if it’s after a jump in.

Anyway, I got into a kinda bad habit of constantly following jump ins or neutral jumps with cr mk because no one I play usually punishes it. But Laxlight pointed out in another thread that it’s not a safe blockstring, you can get mashed out of cr mk if your jump in is blocked. Just something to be aware of in high level play.

Eh might as well throw the quote in here since it’s useful info:

But yeah, cr mk, cr mp, ex fba is probably my most useful combo now, remember when that shit didn’t work on most of the cast? XD I used to have really high hopes for st lk, cr lp, cr mp, ex fba, but it just ended up being too finicky for me… half the time my lp doesn’t connect.


#14

Dont give up on that combo. Learn your spacing for that combo. landing 250+ damage of a single st.lk is to good to brush off. Its so fucking cash.


#15

This is interesting stuff. I generally just record certain situations that I’m having trouble with and try to figure out ways to beat them. It never occured to me to put the dummy on random block to practice hit confirming. One of those things that seems so simple when someone else points it out. I’ll definitely be giving this a try.

Also very nice to know about ST > flip > safe sweep. Anything Vega can use to put on more pressure is a godsend.


#16

I have that combo down timing wise, my problem is that it doesn’t seem to connect on a lot of the characters. And on characters that it connects with, alot of times the spacing on lk has to be perfect or the lp will whiff. I just got tired of trying for it and whiffing cr lp (often getting punished), when I could have been guaranteed a cr fierce or at least a cr mp.

You’re right though, maybe I’ll give it another chance.


#17

Yeah dude. ShinAkuma204 knows his stuff really well. I don’t normally put the CPU on record in training because I try to not think at all when I play battles and let everything happen as a result of feel, prediction, and experience. I think making the CPU do something like that would screw me pretty bad and normally I just try to do that in matches… sometimes I’ll intentionally bait the same move out just so I can react and punish it appopriately, like baiting an SRK 3 times befoer I get CH, SC right =P. After all unless a match is for money it’s probably not important. Unless bragging rights are at stake…

The normal advice is pretty good too. As much as I agree, I actually suggest doing that and incorporating RCF. That move is SO good to use with footsies as opposed to random like the other ones can turn out to be as if yuo’re good at concealnig yuor charge, you can predict a poke, RCF outside of its range, and chip them big time while pushing them in the corner. Jumping in and cancelling into RCF acts as safe combo’s in certain scenarios, decent damage, great charge practice and if you can FADC you can set up some beastly frame traps into big damage RH combos.

Also I disagree heavily with the quoted portion of Laxlight’s post. While it’s true a c. mk is slower than a c. jab, it’s only 4 frames slower, hits low, does more damage, pushes you out further, and a c.mk links into MUCH more much easier. Besides, if you’re worried about your c. mk getting hit by an SRK / EX Headbutt how are you not worreid about jumping in in the first place? Risk assessing plays into jumping in ALOT more than it plays into what move you choose after, unless your’e looking into frame traps and stuff. Though he’s right when he says a c. jab is pretty good at baiting out SRK’s. I normally, aganist predictable Ryu’s, jump in deep, prses c. jab as soon as I hit, then simply block. Some guys are so bent up about hitting you there, as if it’s the bset place to hit, that they don’t even bother to FADC. Big punishes await, it’s a great way to exploit this game’s lenient reversal system. It hardly ever works in Vega but thanks to his jump-ins with huge reach you can make some pretty weird stuff happen if you know youre frame data.

Here are some more combos I try out, and fit pretty well with all this talk of hit confirming and timing movse after the jump in:

Jump in fierce at the apex of your jump. Before you’re hitting the enemy: let the jumping fierce hit later in it’s active frames. As a result of hiting it so early in your jump arc you only have a select few framse to capitalize on the lesser hit stun so only 4 framers get the job done (c. fierce could too, but is much more unsafe and sometiems whiffs at that close a range =). C. Jab to EX FBA if you have fast enoug reactions, if not a hit confirm, or c. MP to EX FBA if you are really confident in your reactions, or, straight up ST after the jump in. Works with the charge, good damage, mixups, etc. Mixing up the timing of your jump ins is really useful, but yuo have to be aware of what you’re going to be able to do once you’re on the ground. Early jump in fierce beats a TON of normally safe anti-airs, even stuff like Guile and Sakura’s c. fierce. Careful though cause ST sometiems whiffs no crouchers at that close a range. C. MP EX FBA is proably a safest bet but if you have no meter you can try c. MP jab RCF.

Kind of like the last one but much more difficult: straight up, a jump in to ultra. Most people say you can’t hit confirm those but that’s not true at all. With good reactions, totally possible. All you have to do is buffer the ultra no matter what and if the jump in hits, prses the KKK, if not, don’t touch anything. You have to have good timing as the ultra 2 is 8 frames and the input might trouble you. Also, yu HAVE to input the ultra ONLY when you hit the ground. If you do it too early, you just do a KKK flip. It’s easy once you practice, as soon as I figured that out I don’t miss it once, even with the trouble I sometimes have with U2’s input. Making the jump in deeper makes it easier for you to hit confirm as you have more hit stun on your side, more time to react, but this is a really risky move that I only recommend for something like safe jumps, as if they hit you can go to town and it doesn’t matter how deep you do them anyways. Jump in Fierce and Neutral jump RH work but I haven’t really tried the others. I know jump in MP doesn’t work. It’s a nice tactic, much better for comebacks than a solid jump-in option as like I said, it’s risky. When you buffer the ultra you’re not doing anything, so if they block you might just wiggle around uselessly. If you have even snappier raections, you can still follow up with something, but that requirse a pretty intense level of concentration.

Glad this topic is helping people, IMO Training is not the most important aspect of this game as landing big combos is REALLY situational, but being able to maximize damage with Vega is pretty important as he IS a punisher and can hit hard, and generally eveyone wants to end matches ASAP.


#18

Very nice thread joz :slight_smile:

Just a little out of topic, you mentioned you hate ranked now and only train.

Any reason why?

I have been hitting a wall on ranked now that makes playing vega a lot more frustrating… Vega still seems a little on the weak side, or atleast he is exploitable alot easier then other characters with solid options for any situation.
And playing some offline small time tournaments lately i feel like i have a lot more succes there… i feel like vega online becomes even weaker then most of the rest of the cast, because anything that calls for good reaction becomes really hard online.

add to that all the 1 frame links vega has and i feel like he is just so much harder to play succesfully then FOR EXAMPLE a ryu, balrog or bison, who can link anything so “comfortably easy”…

A lot of the time i feel like the better player, but still end up losing because i missed that link and then get punished by something like ryu’s jab,jab, dragonpunch fadc ultra… playing better then balrog but then getting hit by 1 silly jab and easily get thrown into the corner by headbutt > ultra after wich the keep vega in the corner game begins for him.

I guess i have to work on my run away game… sigh street fighter , where a 6 foot maniac with a huge ass claw has to run away untill time out :smiley:

His ultra is good, but when i look at rufus or abel’s new ultra while they are already “better” characters, i cant help but believe we still got the short end of the stick.

Anyway… after EVO im going to learn another character to side with Vega for stress relief… since i mostly am forced to enjoy the game online, i feel vega is a little too frustrating in that enviroment.


#19

You don’t necessarily need those 1 framers. People always get too hung up on links. I love them myself, but they’re not the core of Vega’s gameplan. Cr.mk, cr.mp / st.lk, cr.mp / cl.hp, cr.mp are basically all you need to play a good Vega. And those are 2 framers.
No need to act all pro with cr.jab if you can’t hit it consistently. You’ll just put yourself into a bad position. Learn footsies instead, it’s way more important and may just as well be the real reason you’re losing.
I think the problem with most average Vega players is that they think he is a hitconfirm-heavy character like for example Ken or Rog. They’re all like “Okay, if Ken needs to hitconfirm cr.lp into SRK or Kara Throw I need to be able to do that with Vega too!”. Guys, don’t forget. Those two are completely different characters. As Vega, your goal is not to get in and do cr.jab, cr.jab, cr.jab EX Walldive hitconfirms. Don’t focus too much on that.


#20

the thing with ranked is i’m already no 1 and have played as far as i can see, the best competition i could find on there.

now my comp is only turbo players (threekingslegend or whatever, no 2 on XBL). 90% of my matches are for 1 bp and 1 pp gain against absolute scrubs which if i lose i lose hugely. Alot of times online, you play people who are absolutely reckless which isn’t really fair for Vega as if they can sustain a decent rushdown you can die extremely quickly. The best thing to do to is prioritize defense, keep them out first while feeling them out, then rushdown. Turtling doesn’t work much online because most players don’t realize how effective it is and constantly just jump in, which normally forces you to play a really reactive style which can be tough to sustain online. It’s easy to exploit Vega that way because of the lack of any invincibility - ultra 2, so you have to be able to stay out of trouble in the first place and then you can pretty much do anything.

I bet you’re fine in Endless playing actually decent players who are aware of certain threats as you are. It’s just, sometimes in ranked you’ll have a bad day with Vega because you rushdown too hard first and end up getting counter -p wned alot and pressured. Sometimes you die there, others not but largely it’s probably because you’re playing too much ranked and getting too used to stompling people who suck and losing to semi-decent players. I suggest just taking a break and hitting up training and endless. I’m only playing local / training and endless before Evo, ranked will get some bad habits in me.