Trouble against defensive/counter players in SSF4


#1

Example…when im about to finish a combo, i back dash to see if they will stick out a SRK, flash kick etc…etc… sometimes they just sit there… but what annoys me is that they play the keep away game, which is not like how it is in previous SF games cus they get mopped doing that B.S

how the hell am i suppose to get around their habits, and break em? LOL


#2

I hate people that do that to, though I rarely come across anyone who does that offline from all my experiences (which are very few) What I’d say is try to go for some throws, normally online the people who do that the most (playing the keep away game and such) don’t tech that often and are just focusing on dodging/blocking your moves. Also play patiently as well, a lot of the time they try to counter your every move so sometimes it’s better just to wait. And lastly of my bad suggestions, chip him and let the clock run down, this goes for is hes just waiting there for you to come to him.


#3

^ Bingo. When players wanna turtle and wait, I just say to myself “oh, you wanna wait? ok, I’ll wait too. We will both be some bored as muthfuckas”…:cool:


#4

you’re complaining that people aren’t mashing reversals on you?


#5

yeah wtf. I thought he was complaining about a SRK coming out and stopping his throws


#6

Flashkick has such a ridiculous reach that I think backdashing from a blockstring or a combo would still get you hit pretty often. :stuck_out_tongue:

But since when is playing keepaway a bad thing? I mean, I get annoyed by Ryus that jump back roundhouse hadouken cowardcopter random crap all day, but a proper zoning battle is IMO even more interesting than mad rushdown. (Ryu mirror ftw)

Also, you can throw people. Or do an overhead. then when they’ve eaten a couple of those, start looking for 'em uppercuts. Or I guess you could play Ken and use that ridiculous kara throw.


#7

Well I personally play Guile which is a defensive character, but so far what I’ve come up with is that if you get in utilize tick throws, frame traps and overheads. Also remember you have 99 seconds on the clock so if you get health lead don’t go crazy, but maintain a solid game.

Only problem I’d see with defensive play is for the opponent to get in… dunno why you’re so troubled for not getting a random uppercut in the face.


#8

I think you should not let the opponent breath at all! leave them room to make mistakes you should only block what you have to block and evade the rest but who do you main?


#9

I say chip them and back off yourself, unless you are using El Fuerte. Which you could still back off and do your own turtle shell with. (I just don’t like him)

If a guy is doing it to you, do it back. If you have more health he has to attack you to win. Yes it can be boring but winning is not always super exciting. Its just smart.

Even Juri has a good turtle shell if used properly, experiment with whomever you main with.


#10

you have to learn set ups

you can’t just back dash to bait an srk you have to set up a situation to make them want to srk and THEN back dash

jab jab throw
jab short throw
jab jab back dash

the first 2 times you set up a pattern, the 3rd time you change it and punish their reaction to the pattern.


#11

^^ this is what im looking for…

let me be a little more specific on what im talkin about… on the 1st round, i rush down on em and dominate through his defense…round 2, he would play the (you cant catch me) game and when i do catch up, on reaction he would successfully interrupt my block strings with a counter such as EX SRK,flash kick etc…etc… and then backs off again with the B.S…i just want him to flinch during a block string so i can smash the sh*t outta him XD

btw i main ken, but on casuals i like using the shoto bros (ryu,ken,akuma)


#12

the reason why they are mashing ex srks through your block strings is because they are not true block strings

for example, l.jabx3 is a true block string, they will not be uppercutting through any of that

if you do low jab, then low forward or low strong as a block string, there is a gap in between the jab and l.forward/l.strong that they can mash uppercuts through if they are indeed mashing uppercuts

a simple way to bait the mashing uppercuts is to do a true block string then block

if they uppercut without fadc’ing it, then it is unsafe and you can punish it

if they do fadc to make it safe, then you need to take it with a grain of salt because they just wasted 2 meters, and meter is a precious commodity in this game

if they just block after you do your safe block string, then you can walk up throw,low strongxxxsweep or other mixup options

basically you have to be patient, if you walk them into the corner slowly but surely, they are going to want to jump out, you need to work on anti airing 100% to knock them down and continue pressure

hope this helps


#13

Defensive chars such as guile/sim have few bad matchups, usually those who can control space well like viper.

As someone metioned you have to be unpredictable and set up your opponent in wanting to SRK. Controlling space and abusing throws is vital to beating a turtle.

Playing ken, one thing you should be using alot is kara-throws.

Say your playing against a guile and your working your way through booms and you get a chance.

  1. jab jab throw
  2. jab, throw
  3. jab, back up a little bit kara -throw (Use that backup to see if an SRK is coming out, if not and he sits there, kara)

Look at ken forums to learn how to kara and set-ups for him.

Mix in frame traps in case they abuse option select, (mashing throw while crouching) option select doesnt work really well against kara-throwing so abuse that if you see it.

If your sitting on 3-4 bars jab walk forward a bit SRK fadc if you think he’ll throw or counter.


#14

if your opponent is just in crouch block and waiting for you to come up to him, you can either overhead or just walk up and throw him. also, play footsies! cr. mk > hadouken when it’s safe to throw it out. but don’t be too predictable because then the opponent can counter your pokes.

lastly, another thing was mentioned by john choi a while back is when you get the in the corner, you walk forward to them while they are knocked down and then you walk back a little back and throw out two crouching jabs out of range. some players that are impatient will feel the pressure and try you counter you and you can easily punish with an ultra afterwards.


#15

mind games my friend.
you haven’t conditioned him to mash dp. he knows youre trying to bait.
you’ll have to tick throw him at least 2 or 3 times to get him to start mashing and that’s when you switch it up to bait mode and punish his dps.

p.s. don’t backdash cause he could do wakeup ultra and you’d be fucked. just block the dp and punish. when you punish, make absolute sure you punish hard with your most damaging combo or just plain ultra.


#16

tried this out the other night and it worked wonders, as a result it often lead to rage quit XD honestly never knew that throws in this game can be abused if used right for the best times.(much funnier when they try to throw you back) LOL

i tried this when cornering them

low jab, low jab, throw
low jab, kara throw
low jab - delay a sec and then SRK FADC back dash then stick out a low forward to give them enough spacing and just wait for them if they even try to escape so i can punish them back into the corner :slight_smile:

sometimes when they stick out a EX SRK from the flinch, i do a standing jab (while opponent still in air), then dash to the other side and reset into a low short following up with whatever possible into a combo

but to be honest, when i play against Guiles, its really hard to do all this on them…quite frankly i think Ken has worst match ups against charge charcs like blanka and guile :confused:

EDIT: never the less thank you guys, this totally up’d my game! i have a replay vid where it was me vs a japanese cammy player, right down the wire and i mustve thrown her 4 to 5 times till K.O. XD


#17

Cross. Guile. Up.

/thread


#18

/thread

thx this shit was helpful to me. god damn being attacked sucks…


#19

sighs


#20

sigh @ what