Trust


#23

i’d like to get started with this, but i don’t know what rom i need to make it work. i won’t ask anything specific on here, but if someone can pm or email me to point me in the right direction i’d appreciate it.

moocus@hotmail.com is my email


#24

someone posted it in pasky’s HUD thread. look there.


#25

What exactly is the numbering scheme?

For instance, there are currently 6 moves listed under Special Moves.
Currently these are numbered 150 through 175 in multiples of 5.
However the following section begins with 210.
This leaves room for 6 more special moves.
Even ignoring moves with the identical inputs there are way more than 12 special moves in the game.
Should I stop using multiples of 5? Do you mind if I just rework the number system?

Currently my plan is to flesh out the special moves section with a complete move set section for each character. This way, if anyone (like me) has trouble with a specific motion, they can select their character and the move they are planning on practicing with a decent savestate already in place.

Further questions:
Is there an easy way to edit the lesson tree on the left?
Are the individual .lua files for each lesson identical? My linux box isn’t online so I can’t use diff :frowning:


#26

You don’t need to use multiples of 5 at all, it’s just a general pacing of the lessons so I can squeeze in others later. Customized macro scripts should go in the range from 20 or so to about 98. It’s not too strict, as long as you don’t overwrite something else with the same number that you want to keep and haven’t backed up yet. 100 to 999 are kind of reserved for the lessons there (and that may be there as more lessons get added).

Sounds good, if you do those I can update it to include those under the Special Moves branch in the next release. I focused on Ryu but there could be something for each character at some point. One way to approach special moves can restrict it to a particular character, however since the required motions overlap with other character’s moves, it might offer a change of pace if you mix in other characters a bit. Since it’s a repeating script, the idea is not exactly to have the player anticipate what the opponent will do of course, so I recommend approaching it like you’re creating a kind of baseline rally warm-up in tennis before a game, where the point is not to score a point but to keep the rally going. But if you want to do it a particular way for some reason, go for it, I look forward to what you come up with. I think the most important thing is coming up with something that helps to keep the player engaged and focused. It doesn’t have to be too complicated either, in fact it’s important to keep it basic and just provide something like a simple goal to strive for. E.g. a common theme or task can be, “Get out X number of special moves before the script loops”. A “mini-game” as Maj described would be great and keeping it simple goes a long way for that. Did you see that Guilty Gear Flash app thing that tested your reaction time? It was great in that it helped you get accustomed to the moves themselves. It gave you a specific number of a certain precision, and comparing your number with others was like a mini-game. Measuring performance can help increase performance tremendously if someone’s serious about getting better.

You can’t edit the lesson tree on the left. I may update those from time to time when new releases come out, but intend to do so infrequently. If you do all the special moves as described, I can update it cause that could be very helpful, but if people are just sharing a few scripts, they can fit in the custom slots.

Yes, most of the .lua files are identical. If you want to take a look into the Lua code, just know that it can get a bit hairy and the numbering scheme helps to keep things consistent and more organized. Open one in a text editor or IDE and scroll all the way to the bottom. If your editor displays line numbers, take a look from line 1310 to line 1321. That loads the specific .mis macro script. Now, one good reason to edit the Lua script would be to display images. One feature I added was the ability to draw images on any given span of frames over the course of your .mis macro file playing. In the Lua code I call these “Frameflow objects”. For example, the fireball lesson’s input images display such images. You can also display text and lines. Every script displays the text “PRESS COIN TO RETURN TO MENUS” from frame 20 to 280 (or the last frame if less). I did this in the Lua code itself on line 1317 by creating a frmText object, then adding it to the frmTextTable on 1319. For images, put them as .png’s in the \TRUSTlessons\images\ folder. You’ll have to create a Frameflow object for each image you want to display, and add that object to the frmIllusTable table.


#27

hmmm…

I think I may have been on a slightly different page from you on a couple of points. I’m getting a better sense of where you are going.

For the special moves section in Beginners I was thinking something a little less involved I think. I expected the loop to be just a long “W200” with two different state save loads (one where the character is on the left and one where the character is on the right). At each state save load the player would be expected to try to perform as many dps as possible in that direction prior to the next state load.

Some motions in the game simply need to be ground into your brain.

I was going to create a full set of save states, 2 save states for each character. The first state has p1 on the left and the second state has p2 on the right.

The mis file would consist only of


&10 # p1 on left
W200
&11 #p1 on right
W200!

The solution .mis files would each contain p1 doing the correct motion for the move listed.

Unfortunately, this would end up creating approximately 100 lessons by itself (if each character’s full moveset is included).

I realize that this is not what you were initially looking for. I would be glad to help with some of the higher level scripts as well (mini games, fireball wars etc). I’m just hoping that the Special Moves (and possibly the combos) portion of beginner could be a good section to grind out the muscle memory I don’t yet have.

If you really really don’t like this idea I can put it together for myself, but you don’t have to include it in the regular build. However, if that is your decision, I would be super appreciative of access to the menu source so I can keep the lesson layout structured.

What you are giving us is amazing! If I am intruding in any way just let me know and I will back off.


#28

Ok… yeah what you had in mind would certainly work, but probably be a lot of work just to get only slightly more than what a console’s training mode would provide (only difference on a console would be, that you have to go through initial menus to set it up, and also switching sides by jumping over to the other side or throwing P2 each time). TRUST lets you control the opponent so you get a better sense of the context of actual situation, e.g. P2 jumping in so in THAT split second, you think “OK the stick needs to already be in position by now in order to get out a srk in time”, etc. and get used to that. The sf3 3rd Strike training mode had this too though, however with TRUST we can share scripts to work out together which are the best moves to work on (to counter which moves, etc) in an extremely granular level of precision, right down to the frame. Basically like those Pro Tips articles, but you convert all that text (making you read, think, it’s all theoretical, yuck) into doing (Execution). The reading process itself has us decoding symbols into sounds and meanings, and even requires a sense of disbelief to a certain degree before you can even get a genuine sense of how to do what’s being described in the text. When you put that decoding process into the context of a script, suddenly you’re right there in the action, and can truly appreciate just what timing is required, exactly. Videos accompanying them are a step up, but it’s not… TRUST. Nowadays, when I see posts about ST Saturdays or those other video tutorials for ST, I’m just thinking if you go to the trouble of making a video to teach something, why not make a macro script while you’re at it, you know what I mean? That’s so 2000 and 8; that’s so 2000 and late. As you mention, the motions need to be ground into your brain, so with this program you have more to interact with; it can throw things at you to react to and keep it interesting, so the more convenient and engaging it becomes, the less self-discipline is required.

Also I should probably mention that you generally don’t need to edit/look at any of the Lua code files at all, unless you really want to and even then, it would be a big help to have some programming experience, and a curiosity to see or hack what’s there. The macro scripts (.mis files) are the best place to spend your time hacking, in any case, tweaking the start of a move up a frame or two to get it just the way you want it etc. The macro scripts are separated off into their own .mis files, are easy to figure out and abstracted away from the lua code to let you focus on just the most interesting parts, so you really don’t need to go digging deep into the actual lua code at all.

I’m interested in helping both, esp. people new to ST. Fighting games don’t really come with much in terms of a decent manual for what you really need to know so I was thinking this could also offer that kind of “tutorial mode”. If you found any of that helpful or not I’m curious as to feedback.

Thanks- I don’t take it as intrusion, esp just discussing it (I welcome the intrusion). The menu source is written in BlitzPlus (I totally recommend it but the compiler is not free and syntax not so common). How about this, maybe it’d be easier to just increase the number of Custom slots there are?


#29

For the record. This program is SICK… I am comming up with several scenerios for Sim fans!


#30

I hope one of them is post-noogie xup slide into headbutt on Chun/Claw and also forward drilling clean over fireballs.
Some Killing Arts of Yoga, perhaps? :shy:


#31

I’m trying to work on this, but I’m in the middle of a move to another city, and I’m starting a new job next week.

Hopefully I’ll have some progress to report soon though.


#32

I just tried this out two days ago, pretty cool. I think another good training scenario would be for first-frame reversals. Just set it up with Zangief doing a meaty sweep that you have to uppercut/flash kick/super to survive.


#33

Something to be aware of there is that getup timing is character specific. (And can be position specific.)


#34

Any basic examples?


#35

Well, it is faster at the corner, for instance, as some weird things happen when characters touch the border of the screen after getting thrown, reset or knocked down. This really changes things but it s must-learn thing for Gief and Hawk. Anyway, it does not matter as one should create a lua file that would load a save state: both characters would be determined. For a different position, it would just load a different save state. For instance, you could have a Gief training lua that asks that you to a safe jump mid screen, then load an SPD towards your own corner and ask that you safe jump, then, finally, load an SPD towards the other corner and ask that you safe jump. It could be then improved with different types of knockdown, such as lariats, and different types of reversals (say, Ryu will use Shoryuken, that Gief will block or evade, and after that another state with a short Tatsu, that Gief must punch, lariat or throw).


#36

There are some big tournaments I hope many of you can get out to this weekend. One great way to use the program is to keep in mind which critical tactics/attacks your opponents used during the tournament, and make scripts for you to practice the counter. Having video footage of your matches is great but sometimes you can remember it clearly enough and make the script anyways.

Actually I think I included one script like that: take a look at \macro\macro\ssf2t-reversal-training.mis (dammit’s original). I think it uses 1.sta save state, unless I changed that for the installer build. Indeed, an excellent use of the program and others like it (make it for different char/side of screen, as obr said just make a new save state for any given scenario you like) can be easily made and edited. One note about that- I was able to get the Reversal message to appear on the screen sometimes, but not always with that script (Turbo 3 setting of ST probably explains this more than anything). I could also get the flash kick to come out after Zangief’s cr. LK by charging down-towards (getting hit by light kick, then Flash Kicking), as well as blocking (down-back) then Flash Kicking. In any case, extremely useful to get the technique down and very practical.


#37

XSPR has given me a write-up and explanation on TRUST, which you can read here.


#38

can someone please help me with finding the rom that goes with this program


#39

We can not help you with ROMs. We are sorry.

Also related to ROMs, we can now check the hitboxes of the game. If you check papasi’s post about seeing boxes, you will find a thread for it, in which there is a dead link to the file.


#40

I’d suggest you to look at pasky’s hud thread instead

read all the pages


#41

Thank you for your beginners thread it is very helpful and i have found many good links with match up data and strategies.

Thank you for the link. I found everything i need now i can get to T.R.U.S.T


#42

cool stuff, congrats!