I think I may have been on a slightly different page from you on a couple of points. I’m getting a better sense of where you are going.
For the special moves section in Beginners I was thinking something a little less involved I think. I expected the loop to be just a long “W200” with two different state save loads (one where the character is on the left and one where the character is on the right). At each state save load the player would be expected to try to perform as many dps as possible in that direction prior to the next state load.
Some motions in the game simply need to be ground into your brain.
I was going to create a full set of save states, 2 save states for each character. The first state has p1 on the left and the second state has p2 on the right.
The mis file would consist only of
&10 # p1 on left
&11 #p1 on right
The solution .mis files would each contain p1 doing the correct motion for the move listed.
Unfortunately, this would end up creating approximately 100 lessons by itself (if each character’s full moveset is included).
I realize that this is not what you were initially looking for. I would be glad to help with some of the higher level scripts as well (mini games, fireball wars etc). I’m just hoping that the Special Moves (and possibly the combos) portion of beginner could be a good section to grind out the muscle memory I don’t yet have.
If you really really don’t like this idea I can put it together for myself, but you don’t have to include it in the regular build. However, if that is your decision, I would be super appreciative of access to the menu source so I can keep the lesson layout structured.
What you are giving us is amazing! If I am intruding in any way just let me know and I will back off.
Ok… yeah what you had in mind would certainly work, but probably be a lot of work just to get only slightly more than what a console’s training mode would provide (only difference on a console would be, that you have to go through initial menus to set it up, and also switching sides by jumping over to the other side or throwing P2 each time). TRUST lets you control the opponent so you get a better sense of the context of actual situation, e.g. P2 jumping in so in THAT split second, you think “OK the stick needs to already be in position by now in order to get out a srk in time”, etc. and get used to that. The sf3 3rd Strike training mode had this too though, however with TRUST we can share scripts to work out together which are the best moves to work on (to counter which moves, etc) in an extremely granular level of precision, right down to the frame. Basically like those Pro Tips articles, but you convert all that text (making you read, think, it’s all theoretical, yuck) into doing (Execution). The reading process itself has us decoding symbols into sounds and meanings, and even requires a sense of disbelief to a certain degree before you can even get a genuine sense of how to do what’s being described in the text. When you put that decoding process into the context of a script, suddenly you’re right there in the action, and can truly appreciate just what timing is required, exactly. Videos accompanying them are a step up, but it’s not… TRUST. Nowadays, when I see posts about ST Saturdays or those other video tutorials for ST, I’m just thinking if you go to the trouble of making a video to teach something, why not make a macro script while you’re at it, you know what I mean? That’s so 2000 and 8; that’s so 2000 and late. As you mention, the motions need to be ground into your brain, so with this program you have more to interact with; it can throw things at you to react to and keep it interesting, so the more convenient and engaging it becomes, the less self-discipline is required.
Also I should probably mention that you generally don’t need to edit/look at any of the Lua code files at all, unless you really want to and even then, it would be a big help to have some programming experience, and a curiosity to see or hack what’s there. The macro scripts (.mis files) are the best place to spend your time hacking, in any case, tweaking the start of a move up a frame or two to get it just the way you want it etc. The macro scripts are separated off into their own .mis files, are easy to figure out and abstracted away from the lua code to let you focus on just the most interesting parts, so you really don’t need to go digging deep into the actual lua code at all.
I’m interested in helping both, esp. people new to ST. Fighting games don’t really come with much in terms of a decent manual for what you really need to know so I was thinking this could also offer that kind of “tutorial mode”. If you found any of that helpful or not I’m curious as to feedback.
Thanks- I don’t take it as intrusion, esp just discussing it (I welcome the intrusion). The menu source is written in BlitzPlus (I totally recommend it but the compiler is not free and syntax not so common). How about this, maybe it’d be easier to just increase the number of Custom slots there are?
I just tried this out two days ago, pretty cool. I think another good training scenario would be for first-frame reversals. Just set it up with Zangief doing a meaty sweep that you have to uppercut/flash kick/super to survive.
Well, it is faster at the corner, for instance, as some weird things happen when characters touch the border of the screen after getting thrown, reset or knocked down. This really changes things but it s must-learn thing for Gief and Hawk. Anyway, it does not matter as one should create a lua file that would load a save state: both characters would be determined. For a different position, it would just load a different save state. For instance, you could have a Gief training lua that asks that you to a safe jump mid screen, then load an SPD towards your own corner and ask that you safe jump, then, finally, load an SPD towards the other corner and ask that you safe jump. It could be then improved with different types of knockdown, such as lariats, and different types of reversals (say, Ryu will use Shoryuken, that Gief will block or evade, and after that another state with a short Tatsu, that Gief must punch, lariat or throw).
There are some big tournaments I hope many of you can get out to this weekend. One great way to use the program is to keep in mind which critical tactics/attacks your opponents used during the tournament, and make scripts for you to practice the counter. Having video footage of your matches is great but sometimes you can remember it clearly enough and make the script anyways.
Actually I think I included one script like that: take a look at \macro\macro\ssf2t-reversal-training.mis (dammit’s original). I think it uses 1.sta save state, unless I changed that for the installer build. Indeed, an excellent use of the program and others like it (make it for different char/side of screen, as obr said just make a new save state for any given scenario you like) can be easily made and edited. One note about that- I was able to get the Reversal message to appear on the screen sometimes, but not always with that script (Turbo 3 setting of ST probably explains this more than anything). I could also get the flash kick to come out after Zangief’s cr. LK by charging down-towards (getting hit by light kick, then Flash Kicking), as well as blocking (down-back) then Flash Kicking. In any case, extremely useful to get the technique down and very practical.
Thanks for checking it out! The crash you describe would definitely be a new one- have you tried using your stick with the other lua script apps (throwbox display etc.)? You can test by clicking Execute from TRUST, and then in the lua console window that appears stop the script and load one of the other ones. Is roundhouse mapped to Button 6 in the TRUST Mame, and possibly anything else? What happens if you map roundhouse to a keyboard key or try it with another stick? Also I haven’t tested this on 64 bit yet, only Windows 7 32 bit and Windows 2000.