Trust


#78

lol


#79

I agree that it’s not certain how well I’m performing wall dives. Based on results, I’d say MAO is clearly doing something better in mid-screen scenarios. I’m just saying mine are good enough that in certain situations, nobody in the world can stop them.

I brought up Nobel Prizes to illustrate how your analogy about confidence vs. skill in science for little kids doesn’t consider at all the skill in science for top level scientists. US kids may be confident about science because we have the world’s highest rewarded scientists here, even if the majority of people aren’t any good in science. I was showing how the “facts” you pointed out only show a limited perspective that could easily be viewed in an opposite manner (e.g. that confidence comes from national pride in top level ability), not unlike your perspective on ST.

As for the claw mirror, sure, there could always be another factor than online charge timing. But again, that wasn’t my point. My point was that even if I knew everything, charge timing is so critical of a point in that specific matchup that I still couldn’t consistently win. MAO’s play should easily show the fundamental importance of fast wall dives to you, even if he has other tools in his repertoire.

As for the comparison between you and me, the problem with your analogy is that we’ve never played in any form at all. I would gladly mm you offline even in my current state but I suspect you don’t have any plans to return to the US for an ST tourney and you consider claw too difficult for your main anyway. I’m not sure if I made this clear but back in 2010, I already played the JP folks you refer to as apex predators in casuals. There were lion kings that had an edge on me and tiger moms that crushed me, but there were also mama bears that I matched blow for blow, alpha wolves that had trouble against me, and crocodile ancients that I bludgeoned.

I had over a 10-win streak at Mikado during the packed Wed. session the week of SBO 2010—which is how I discovered the way Mikado links its machines up for freeplay. Now, I don’t think casuals mean much, even in serious-play-all-the-time Japan, but in light of tourney results elsewhere, I don’t see why you’re so quick to dismiss US players. Peg us down a notch or 2 under our Japanese brethren after this Evo, fine, but us old eagles are still dangerous to all but the wildest animal mothers.

Anyway, since you started the non-TRUST talk in this topic, I’d rather finish it here this time around. I suppose if there’s one thing we can both support, it’s the TRUST tool.


#80

I heard back from Damdai. He said the only time they met up with ARG, he thinks the only person to beat him was YuuVega in the tournament and mentioned no wins by any US player against him period.

re: Nobel Prizes, it ain’t just the little kids, many of whom have grown up: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/opinion/26tue2.html?_r=0

Ah, you found me out-- yes, I made the statement about never losing to you while never having played you in the first place. I felt it was apt to express it that way for your view about how well you think you’d do against Japanese players, with the same veil of supposed reasons as to why. and, although I’m no mm fan in general, esp vs. a claw player but to prove the point, I will see your mm proposal, and RAISE you a mm proposal! I don’t imagine you have any plans to return to Japan for an ST tourney or the next XMANIA but if you decide to show up to the next one, we can come to some arrangement.


#81

Is damdai sure they only met one time? For example, I would think they saw each other at SBO as well. Was there no east vs. west style line tournament that they played against each other in? If not, then I’ll ask my contact later. If it was just a casual match win against ARG that I heard so excitedly about (that broke a win streak or something?), then I’ll definitely apologize for the mistake since I agree that casual matches aren’t a big deal.

As for that report on skilled workers, OK, but it still only addresses regular folks. I brought up Nobel Prizes because we were discussing some of the best comp around, not regular joes. And amongst the very best scientific talent, the US is still on top.

As for your comment about playing me, I already stated how it doesn’t match what I’m claiming. We haven’t played at all, not even online. But I’ve played the Japanese players I’m referring to in-person, even if it wasn’t in-tourney. Playing and not playing is a black-and-white difference in expectations. As I’ve repeated numerous times now, that experience is the whole reason behind US confidence, and not just mine either.

I have no current plans to return to Japan but if I do, I’ll be glad to accept our mm and show you my perspective. How badly do you expect me to fare against the mama bears by the way? Since Evo, I won’t say I’m near equal but I’d be willing to bet that except against 5 or so of the toughest players, I won’t lose worse than 5-3 to the rest of Tokyo’s best players. I believe I’d win some too but I’m not willing to bet that except on a case-by-case basis being as out-of-shape as I am today. I don’t think losing 5-3 is very impressive with claw (and that MAO could certainly do better) but if you’re expecting something like 5-1 or worse because of a perceived difference in skill and are willing to put serious money behind that belief, as well as on our mm, then we might be able to work a deal out for a visit perhaps as early as this January.


#82

Here was my question to Damdai: “btw did any of you guys that came to Japan for SBO (or any other time) ever play ARG? Did anyone actually win against him? Ganelon claims so in the forum.” and here was his reply: “I only remember him at one Nakano Royal event we went to. I think Yuu Vega peaced him out of the tournament.”

When adjusted for per capita, the US doesn’t even make the top 10 laureates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita Also, you can win a Nobel Prize and still have a list of people you are trying to kill. An American managed to do that already so what does that tell you about Nobel Prizes.

I will put serious money behind this belief that I’d win in a mm against you: 100 yen. I don’t think you’d beat any of the mama bears. If you want me to pass along any particular mm challenges to Japanese players, just let me know and I’ll put the word out.


#83

I’ll ask further on that ARG point before repeating it again then. I doubt I could beat the mama bears now without some hardcore practice either, hence why the match spread is in their favor.

I’m not a fan of calling anybody out for a money match without significant reason, hence why my $200+ challenge for the past 2 Evos was directed not to anyone in particular but rather a challenge at large to the US. But if I ever qualify for SBO again, I’ll definitely call on you for some modest (<=$20) mms to any bear who wants to play.

EDIT: I asked around and it appears I was wrong. The US has never beaten ARG (or any of the 3 big bear JP claws) in-tourney. The win I heard about last year only happened in regular casuals. And I would agree that’s not the best predictor of serious play. I strive to relay accurate info and base my opinions on such so my apologies for the confusion.


#84

Program looks nice.


#85

Fluxcore has a great report about that “block cross-up by going to neutral” thing using scripts:


#86

mrdhalsim, thx for such a well done training tool.

Is the zip in the google code project the latest version? Is there any place where you push the branches and updates?

It’d be easier to contribute if there’s an open repository to manage issues and new patches. The google code repository with a slight different setup would be enough. Thanks!


#87

Off top (or on topic) why do people still call it “wall dive”? d,u+p wall dive. d,u+k is barcelona attack…


#88

@yogaboy Yes, that is the latest version, but no, I haven’t pushed out updates-- but very glad to hear of any interest. I’m open to your suggestions for the google code page!

@Jion_Wansu yeah I guess it’s just called “wall dive” due to tradition from the arcade days and everyone had to make up local “house names” for the moves. (and in the earlier games, his wall dive had him stay on the back wall for a few seconds before coming down.) Actually I have a book here and incidentally, the official names (according to THIS particular book, anyway) are “Flying Barcelona Attack” for the wall dive (charge down, then up+Kick), and “Izuna Drop” for his super’s normal (charge down, then up+Punch). btw there are all kinds of crazy names for his normals too, like “Slam Claw” for his standing mid punch, “Round Slider” for his slide, “Dragon Whip” for his crouching mid kick, and “Lizard Whip” for his light kick.

btw these srk forums are still slow as molasses for me- hopefully this post makes it…


#89

@yogaboy Yes, that is the latest version, but no, I haven’t pushed out updates-- but very glad to hear of any interest. I’m open to your suggestions for the google code page!

@Jion_Wansu yeah I guess it’s just called “wall dive” due to tradition from the arcade days and everyone had to make up local “house names” for the moves. (and in the earlier games, his wall dive had him stay on the back wall for a few seconds before coming down.) Actually I have a book here and incidentally, the official names (according to THIS particular book, anyway) are “Flying Barcelona Attack” for the wall dive (charge down, then up+Kick), and “Izuna Drop” for his super’s normal (charge down, then up+Punch). btw there are all kinds of crazy names for his normals too, like “Slam Claw” for his standing mid punch, “Round Slider” for his slide, “Dragon Whip” for his crouching mid kick, and “Lizard Whip” for his light kick.

btw these srk forums are still slow as molasses for me- hopefully this post makes it…


#90

@yogaboy Yes, that is the latest version, but no, I haven’t pushed out updates-- but very glad to hear of any interest. I’m open to your suggestions for the google code page!

@Jion_Wansu yeah I guess it’s just called “wall dive” due to tradition from the arcade days and everyone had to make up local “house names” for the moves. (and in the earlier games, his wall dive had him stay on the back wall for a few seconds before coming down.) Actually I have a book here and incidentally, the official names (according to THIS particular book, anyway) are “Flying Barcelona Attack” for the wall dive (charge down, then up+Kick), and “Izuna Drop” for his super’s normal (charge down, then up+Punch). btw there are all kinds of crazy names for his normals too, like “Slam Claw” for his standing mid punch, “Round Slider” for his slide, “Dragon Whip” for his crouching mid kick, and “Lizard Whip” for his light kick.

btw these srk forums are still slow as molasses for me- hopefully this post makes it…


#91

Holy quadruple post! Yeah, the SRK forums have been garbage for the last few months. Admins are testing out new server options, so hopefully when that kicks in, these slowdowns and errors go away. I’m guessing increased site traffic is messing things up for SRK crew.

I’ll be trying out this Trust program whenever I can. I’m trying to find old tools to help new players learn specific aspects about ST, and I think this program seems to be the perfect fit. Thanks for this XSPR!


#92

Since this thread got resurrected, I noticed that I never got around to moving XSPR’s writeup over to the STR site. You can now find it here:


#93

Hi XSPR! Let me join others in thanking you for creating such an excellent tool!

I have an LUA question that you might be good enough to help me regarding if it’s possible to execute both one and two player commands at the same time. To demonstrate what I’m trying to do let’s consider the case where we have player 2 (Ken) jump in with medium kick and have player 1 (Dhalsim) do his super to defend.

I have the following script:

It works fine in respect that it will successfully execute both “moves” (super for P1 and air attack for P2) as intended however the timing is a problem. With Dhalsim, I want for him to execute late, almost when Ken lands, however because Ken waits 25 frames after jumping before pressing medium kick,** this 25 frame delay affects when Dhalsim’s super will** start and hence Dhalsim gets hit and has missed his super.

Generally my question is about how we can better control time for both players in a way that’s independent of each other. Is it possible to execute commands in parallel instead of sequentially somehow?


#94

Hi Delatroy, yeah what you want to do is definitely possible (any input you want for any given frame, across a sequence of frames, basically). I haven’t tried out your scenario just yet to confirm though (hopefully it follows convention of having the gamestate start from start-of-round positions so we can recreate it easier without having to share savestates?). Anyway to better choreograph P1’s inputs along with P2’s inputs, use the alternative notation that uses angle brackets. So if you want P1 and P2 to do stuff at the same time, start with a

< and write what P1 should do here, then a forward slash / and put P2’s inputs here and then closing angle bracket >

like that. The basic notation has you use + to indicate P1’s inputs and - to switch to P2’s but as you mention there’s a delay. Don’t use +/- with this alternative way.

Sorry for the quadruple post! It kept telling telling me it didn’t get posted at all. I’d like to delete those extras but it’s usually timing out for me.


#95

Awesome! Now I can direct newbie ST players to this section of STR.

Btw Kuroppi, you have a repeat paragraph in the TRUST section of the website. Might want to delete it:

TRUST is a program designed to address this gap. It stands for T.raining R.egimen U.nder S.uper T.urbo, and lets you customize your own training mode particular to any given scenario that you want to practice. It even comes with a number of lessons built-in, which offer a kind of “missing manual” that never came with the game itself.

Maj wrote about a similar concept here that reminds us how awkward it was to learn a fighting game in the first place.

It happens a lot on SRK nowadays.


#96

Thanks for catching that. I went ahead and fixed it.


#97

@mrdhalsim: I didn’t get the notification of your answers and I have just seen all the new messages in this thread now. My bad.
I can help you setup the repository. Let me send you a private message and we can work on it outside of this thread.

@kuroppi: Congrats for the new strategy section!!! The link ‘TRUST thread on SRK’ in the article is broken. Also, it might be convinient to put the direct link to the installable somewhere (http://code.google.com/p/trust-xspr/downloads/list) so readers don’t have to jump through so many pages to get there.