Trying to find the answer in the heart of battle


#1

Hi all

I’m not new to Street Fighter per se but after perusing the threads on SRK it seems I’ve been playing a completely different game! Allow me to explain…

I’ve been playing SF since the snes days but never knew nothing about frame data, match ups (excluding j.hk meth to beat gief in early days) link combos or any combos really outside of j.hk, cr.hk. In fact I still remember vividly the eureka moment when I finally realised I could consistently land DPs! But I digress; apart from playing a very little amount of the Alpha series and MvC1/2 I took a step back from SF - that was until SF4 landed. I picked it up day one and thought I could handle myself pretty well. I never played online just had mini tourneys when the fellas came over and I would dominate with Ryu just from basics like anti-air shory’s, hados and the only consistent combo I could do with Ryu cr.mk xx Hado. Then one of my mates bought a PS3 with a copy of the game and started practicing at home. SF4 was the only game he had for months and when we met online to play again, having not had a match together since launch he absolutely obliterated me! He plays Ken and he was crossing me up, throwing me, it was ridiculous. After playing 20 maches with him and winning only 2 I decided to call it quits and set the pad down.

Fast forward to 6 weeks ago; I happen to stumble across a small arcade with a SF4 cabinet in it (I’m in London so anyone from here will tell you arcades are a rareity round these parts). A bunch of uni kids were playing but had the game absolutely locked down! FADC’ing into outrageous combos and Ultras, teching throws and generally showing off really but at least having the skill to back it up. Then I discover one of them doesn’t even own the game but instead learnt all his skills from just frequenting this dingy arcade!

The new gameplan; 2 days later I bought a TE fightstick and embarked on what I thought would be a straight forward matter of fooling around in training mode for 30 mins a day to get used to using a stick since I’d never used or owned one before. Was I wrong. Excuse the wall of text but I just wanted to make sure it was understood that I’m not new to SF, I’m just trying to not only relearn the game but to learn how to use a stick also but I dont feel like I’m progressing as much as I should. I’ve tried drills which did help basic execution of my specials and Ultra, but this has proved misleading itself because when I replayed my friend again recently he creamed me once again! I can beat CPU on hardest with minimal fuss but then get ripped by my buddy. I tested the waters online recently too and that was a huge knock to the ego.

If there are any players out there who are willing to endulge a scrub with online play so that I can improve my game or any pearls of wisdom or advice they can give me please oblige. My PSN ID is Frank_Lucas83. For the record I cant do the SRK - FADC - Ultra, any link combos with any degree of consistency, shit I’m just managing to get to grips with this stick!

Any takers?

Frank


#2

Provided the lag isn’t too bad because we’re in different countries, I’m always up for a low-level game.


#3

Thanks Kelter, I’ll add you in a bit. Do you have a headet?


#4

Thanks Kelter, I’ll add you in a bit. Do you have a headet?


#5

Man, I still remember when I got that “eureka” moment… I’ve been playing fighters since I was so young, loving SF, World Heroes and MK so much… Yet I didn’t understand the concept of combos until KOF XI, which is not that long ago you know. KOF XI on PS2 had a shoulder button that would to a pre-programmed combo, you see. After finding this button, I realized this are things you can do, and I tried to emulate that macro with the normal controls and thus learned how to do combos that way. Then I found SRK and read Play To Win, end of story.
It’s pretty funny, I can’t believe I could go that long… I mean, the AI does combos. The FAQs with movelists often contain combos. There’s a combo counter that should at least trigger sometimes by accident when you play friends. It’s mysterious, how I could just ignore all these somehow.

Anyway… Just wanted to tell that story. The point is, you’ll be fine. There are people who started with SFIV and couldn’t even do the basic movements.

And stick feels really weird for a long time, then it’s really sweet.


#6

I would if you weren’t in Europe ><

Oh… and it’s PS3… damn.


#7

Yeah I have a headset. I never use it but, I’m sure I can make an exception.


#8

Thank you for sharing that Yin. It’s reassuring to know I’m not the only one with this experience.


#9

Try posting in the regional matching making forum or the psn/xbox live sub forum. You’ll probably have better luck there.

This sub forum is supposed to be for asking gameplay questions, not matchmaking.


#10

Yeah as Starcade as pointed out, you should definitely check out the PSN area to find people willing to play with you in a local area since overseas lag might be a really bad issue.

However in my opinion you should be with those kids at the arcade! Stick to training mode to learn combos and practice, then when you feel prepared go get whooped at the arcade until your fingers bleed! It may cost you, but playing in a setting like that, you can keep asking questions and learn the game better.

If you seriously want to get better try to play as much offline as you possibly can as playing online can cause bad habits, especially with execution.

Hope it helps :tup:


#11

It’s good that you’ve already got some knowledge of the game, so all you pretty much need now is to build upon that knowledge and work on getting use to the stick.

Don’t be disheartened, switching from pad to stick can sometimes be a pretty frustrating experience. A lot of the tools that you’ve learnt on the pad won’t be available to you on a stick anymore (yet), effectively making you a ‘worse’ player than you really should be. It can be pretty annoying but don’t let it get to you. It’s not the end of the world you merely just have to relearn it all again. This is where patience steps in, it will definitely help you in the long run so keep it in mind at all times. Stuff like this takes time, so you’re not going to see results immediately but if you keep at it then you’ll eventually start to see little improvements every now and then. The more time you put in, the better you will get at it, you may not see it but it’s definitely happening. After all it’s just a matter of muscle memory when it comes down to it and you can’t really see that either.

Go into training mode and work on getting use to the stick. Practice and set little goals and targets for yourself (eg: doing 3 hadoukens in a row, do a jump hk > low mk > hadouken combo), you don’t necessary need to set a time frame for these goals, just work towards it at your own leisurely pace. Working towards a goal is always better than just working aimlessly imo.

Challenge mode can be a great place to learn/test your stick execution so make sure to give that a go whenever you can too. Once you’re execution is up to scratch and it’s at a level where you’re fairly comfortable with it, it should pretty much be smooth sailing from here on out.

I remember when i had trouble doing simple dashes backwards or forwards on command when first starting out on the stick! Now I’m doing stuff i never even thought of attempting back then. Basically the whole point I’m trying to make is to just keep at and don’t be disheartened. :karate:

tl:dr

You only get out what you put in, perseverance and patience will help you go a long way. Good luck and all the best! :tup:

EDIT: When playing against actual human opponents, try not to throw out moves that are beyond your abilities. It’s better to rely on the fundamentals and what you do have readily available at your disposal as opposed to randomly jerking the stick and hoping for said move to come out. Use training mode to practice moves you can’t do and then when you’re fairly confident and comfortable with performing the execution of said move, slowly incorporate it into your game and continue working on the next move you’re having problems with.


#12

Thanks beesuit for that detailed and informed response. To Starcade; the intention of my original post wasn’t specifically to look for compatible online players but really to express that I wish to improve my game and would welcome others to join/help me - any advice given being much appreciated. Of particular note I have indeed found your thread regarding stick execution to be very helpful and enlightening. I guess more than anything I needed reassuarance that I cant go from a stick virgin to the Rainman of the FADC to Ultra combo in 6 weeks. Though that may be obvious, playing withy pride on the line and losing terribly can be a huge blow to ones confidence, stifling the will to persevere through this learning barrier and losing all hope.

Thanks again for the encouraging words from those here who took the time out to post a reply to my thread.

On a specific note; one of the things I remember struggling with whilst playing against my mate’s Ken is that he would cross me up and then pound me with block strings while I sit there waiting for an opening, but I thought shoto’s could interupt these strings with a dp. At what point in his string can I do this? His string if I can recall was cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk then I think cr.mk but it gets a bit hazey after that. What kind of block strings can I as a Ryu player press with if he blocks my jump in?

Thanks again.

On a more specific note


#13

I’m glad that guide was useful to you. Just stick with the, er, stick. It will get better if you work at it.

As for your questions, yes, you can dp out of a block string. The timing on it is pretty lenient; though it’s kind of scrubby, some people just try to mash out a dp reversal in the block string. This works in SF4 because block stun is less than hit stun and reversal windows are relatively large. That the gameplay works like this is sort of controversial to older players, but regardless it’s part of the game.

Personally, I recommend practicing timing over mashing wildly. It’s better in the long run. You can set the training mode dummy to do jab/short block strings and try to dp out of it for practice.

As far as block strings, check the Ryu forum for specifics. But it’s sort of similar to Ken in the sense that Ryu’s crouching jab and short (jab especially) link into a ton of his other normals. You can take advantage of this by noticing a jab hits, then going into a combo. This is called hit confirming.

Also, be aware, you might not the only person trying to dp out of a block string. If you notice your friend doing this a lot, bait a dp by stopping your block string, then punish with whatever.

But definitely keep at training mode. Hit up the Ryu forum for some combos to practice. There will probably be a ton, so just pick a few to start with. Try to identify one to be your go to meterless punish and some variation of dp > fadc > ultra.


#14

A true, properly timed blockstring can not be interrupted since they’re practically combo’s, except ones that were blocked. You just have to sit there and take it.

You can only interrupt a blockstring if the other player isn’t timing it correctly, thus leaving slight openings in between each move (you’re capitalising on their mistake for not properly performing the blockstring so to speak). It’s pretty much up to you to find out when you’re friend is screwing up his blockstrings (if he’s a good player then he won’t be), although some players just keep mashing dp’s when caught in a blockstring in the hopes that an opening does eventually arise. Note that some players look down on dp mashing while others can punish you dearly for it with a counter if it becomes too obvious (eg: Intentionally stopping their blockstrings midway and blocking the dp so you go flying like an idiot).

As for finding blockstrings of your own along with other useful information to up your game, the Ryu forums would be the place to go. Have a look through the stickied threads first, since they’re well… stickied for a reason afterall lol


#15

Good lookin’ Starcade, I’ll certainly be practicing dp’ing out of block strings and performing block strings of my own in training mode. I’d just like to say that since reading up on the timing of link combos and trying to achieve frame-specific advantages I wonder how it’s even at all viable to play this game online?! Against the cpu I would always wake up shoryuken as they would always stand over me on knock-down and I can consistently dp reversal. Then when I play my mate online I almost ALWAYS eat a meaty/any attack on wake up or get thrown?!


#16

Wake up dp’s is a pretty bad habit to get into and you shouldn’t rely on it too much when waking up. The move in itself is very risky and can backfire big time when the other player sees it coming especially when it’s predictable (eg: it’s the only thing you do on wake up). That doesn’t mean remove it from your game altogether just use it a lot more sparingly and restrict yourself sometime, it can be very tempting to do but by resisting that temptation you will become a better player because of it. Blocking is a pretty viable and safe option when waking up so give that a go sometimes. If you’re getting thrown then you need to learn how to tech and your opponents throwing patterns. Again patience and perseverance is crucial here, avoid getting frustrated since you start losing sight of the game and your concentration goes to shits most of the time when you do.

Also just be aware that the CPU isn’t exactly the best of opponents to train against. Don’t focus solely on winning against the CPU especially if it’s just with dp’s alone since you won’t get much out of it. Rather work on stuff like execution, hit confirms and combo’s instead. The CPU’s gives you a place to practice them under match like circumstances so use that to your advantage. Try and practice the stuff you’ve been working on in training mode against the CPU to see if you’re able to do them under pressure. Here’s a pretty good thread talking about training against the CPU that i suggest you might read.
http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=227066


#17

Thanks for the link beesuit, I get your point. I think my plan of action is going to be to practice a little each day in training mode, twice a week sessions in the arcade on my lunch breaks and Fridays and weekends at home with mates. That way I only experience either playing humans or training room scenarios as to not breed bad/worst habits. I’m actually in training mode right now trying to practice specials and ultra set ups as I’ve figured out that pulling off the latter certainly turns the tide of battle. I’ve realised my only viable ultra set ups are either ex tatsu in the corner or light punch dp. Both set ups require very specific circumstances; hence I can go through match after match and never get one off? If only I could get down this srk - fadc - ultra combo. So far I can focus cancel the srk and dash out (an achievement for me since all that used to happen when I tried to dash out was the focus attack, until my inputs showed I was double-tapping forward-down instead just forward - poor stick execution) but pulling off the ultra at the end is a pipe-dream… for now…


#18

Well, the truth is that you ARE new to SF. The amount of time you’ve been playing the series or your familiarity aren’t the factors in question. See, the game you played before is Oblivious Fighter. You were unaware of all the deeper intricacies of the game and how far it can get. You thought you were good when wiping the floor with your friends, until you got a little enlightenment. Don’t worry, this is perfectly normal and happens to a lot of people.

But from the look of your post, it seems you know better now. The first thing I’d suggest is to not practice anything in the game at all. You can, of course, especially if you want to get used to a stick, but that’s not what you should focus on.

Instead, look up the plethora of excellent articles that explain what new players and scrubs do wrong, top player mentalities, how to properly train, etc. There are tons of great info available for new players. Do some studying and gain knowledge, it’s much more important to build that foundation than to learn all the best Ryu combos immediately. Once you know more, actually training in the game and improving becomes much easier since you know exactly what you need to accomplish. You can also look up the various podcasts/interviews with top players, where they answer many questions and shed light on how they think when they train, play in tournaments, etc.


#19

so you’re not going to do online anymore? i was hoping for a new sf buddy.


#20

I’m not saying that, it’s just I wont be seeking out online players as my main source of training. Anyone can feel free to add me if they wish. It’s all good!