Twelve against Q

twelve

#1

Is it me or is my 4 year younger brother just getting better… He parries all my air dashes, techs all my grabs…

Everytime he takes Q it’s an instant win for him…
He first aims to taunt 3x, then he’s just waits for me to attack. Using a parry and then punish me badly… (Most of the time he uses Super I or II)
Because of Twelve’s weak defense… I tried to aim for a timeout but then he gets nasty the last 10 seconds :frowning:

What are good strategy’s against an average Q player with Twelve?


#2

If he’s parrying all your air dashes, mix it up. Example: do an instant air dash into jab for a tick throw set-up, whiffed FP for a throw set-up, early MP to throw off parry timing or air dive HK, where the air dive animation throws off parry timing and the air dive itself has huge priority. Another example: do a higher air dash into early FP, late FP, whiff HK, cross-up HK, AXE. Not to mention use EX air dives to keep up the pressure.

Honestly, you just need to learn to mix up your air dash attacks. Not just for Q but for good Twelve play in general. Whenever I play Q, I air dash all over his ass. It’s one of the few match-ups where Twelve can be aggressive and win. You still need to play smart but you can play aggressive. Don’t get caught up in a toe-to-toe brawl with Q. Air dive mix-up, throw out a block string to safely get out of Q’s range, repeat.

st.MP is a good mid-range poke against Q. Q hasn’t got anything to frequently beat it IIRC and it’ll cut off any dash punch attempts if he tries to close the gap.

Also, use EX tentacles frequently to discourage him from taunting. Just throw one out every now and then if the two of you get separated and he should learn that taunting isn’t going to work. You don’t want to nail him everytime with an EX NDL, just frequently throw them out to discourage Q from trying to taunt. This match-up becomes much, much harder for Twelve when Q gets the three taunts in, which is why you need to be aggressive.

As always, if you get trapped in the corner, EX dive out of there. Especially important against Q.

Finally, if you’re trying to keep a player off your back for the last 10 seconds of a match, EX dives and EX NDL are your best options. EX NDL in particular. EX NDL > taunt will save your ass and reduce Q’s attacking options to guesswork.


#3

After a blocked Dash punch, continue to block no matter, unless you’re pyschic and sense a throw. Twelve knockin’ Q outta a super aint easy or possible I think.

Stay the fuck out of the corner and like Mikee said, if you do get in the corner, try for an EX Dive/D.R.A.

Unlike Hugo, close-range isn’t as bad but still not good for 12. Try to zone him with NDL’s, low LK’s & MK’s, occasional EX NDLs and maybe a standing MP

And if he gets 3 taunts in, who cares how much meter u need to burn


#4

He doesn’t care about the damage i give him when he taunts 3x because Twelve’s damage is too little too worry about… He seems to grab me a lot, i can’t tech him for some reason… And Twelve’s damage is almost none compared to the damage he gives me…

For some reason he can keep me in a corner with HP or Jump + HK


#5

Will you should be able to anti-air the j. HK easliy since it has a slow start-up


#6

This match often lasts a really long time, definitely much longer than any other Q-vs-whoever match. Wins by time-out or very close to time-out happen aren’t uncommon. I don’t know how to play Twelve very well, so I can only tell you what makes Twelve hard for me as a Q player.

You have two options here, and both of them are annoying for Q. One, you can rush Q down. Twelve’s airdash mixup game is pretty annoying, and if you’re getting parried on it you’re not doing it right. Don’t just mix up the attacks and when they hit (though do that), you gotta also put in stuff like instant air dash fierce, that looks like it’ll hit but won’t, and you get a throw. That guessing game is very annoying to Q because he doesn’t have good ways to stop you apart from blocking and parrying. Your air attacks will stuff just about all of Q’s attacks; your jumping roundhouse and fierce will even stuff Q’s SAII if you do them at the right angle. And throw in other random crap like jumping whippy hands, crouching shorts, whiffed attacks into throws, etc, you know, whatever annoying stuff Twelve dishes out. If you pressure Q constantly, he won’t have time to taunt, and that’s good for you.

That said, stopping the taunts isn’t as important as it may seem. Some of the most competent Twelve players I’ve played against have used an excellent runaway game. Q doesn’t have any good ways of closing in on Twelve because jumping fierce, roundhouse, and jab stuff the dash punch so cleanly; just doing something as simple as jump back fierce causes a lot of problems for Q. Throw in a random ndl or two, and if you see Q taunt make sure you punish him for it with an ex ndl. If Q manages to close the distance, no matter, your superjump air dive or air dash will get you on the other side and far away, and you can set up the whole defense thing again. Twelve’s defense is very hard for Q to get through, so let him try to come to you. Do some chip damage with ex ndl so that the Q player can’t just sit there; Q can’t attack from far away, so if he gets damaged and Twelve doesn’t, he needs to follow Twelve around. That’s exactly what you want him to do.

Essentially Q has to rely on his damage output, his ability to take damage well, and Twelve’s paltry damage output to give him time to wait for Twelve to make mistakes and then capitalize on them. You can win by rushing down and by running away, but I tend to think it’s more annoying when Twelve players run away from me. This match is probably 6-4 in Twelve’s favor, so you should win more often than not. The only reason it’s even that close is the relative damage thing.


#7

good post David, I think it is a bit of a 50/50 match. I’ve been beaten by a some Q players. I think if 12 actually did damage this match could really go into his favor.


#8

The problem is When i do Duck + MP for anti air i receive damage too and get blown to the back, and HP start up is too slow…

@Ultra David

Th eproblem with his Taunt is that he doesn’t care about my damage. He taunts right away against me… If i do damage it’s miniscule and his taunt counted.

Sometimes i fly right into SAII -_-’


#9

Mix up your air dashes more. It sounds like the Q player is guessing when to throw out SAII and is reading your mix-ups. Like I said before, mix up IAD jp, IAD fp/fk whiff, IAD hk dive, IAD mp, air dash fp (max range), air dash jp, air dash fk cross up, air dash AXE (normal and cross-up), air dash EX dive. Twelve has loads of air dash options and Q hasn’t got a reliable anti-air to consistently keep you out.

In all honesty, Q’s damage potential is so high this is one match where I wouldn’t recommend turtling/running away unless you’re really, really good at it or Q is fully taunted up. Q needs time to set up his offence and if Twelve is flying all over his ass, he’s not going to have that luxury. All it takes is one dash punch xx super to connect and it’s GGPO for Twelve. It depends on your style of play. If you’re playing rush down, you need meter for EX dives to really keep the pressure on. If you’re playing runaway, you need meter for EX NDL to keep Q off your ass. I always play this rushdown, if only because Twelve very rarely gets a chance to play rushdown against any of the 3S cast (Makoto, Hugo, erm…).

I still maintain stopping taunts is important. The more taunts Q gets in, the more you’re going to have to start turtling and running away because the risk/reward favour starts to swing in Q’s favour. Then you’re in for a long, long brawl.

Crouch mp is an awful anti-air. Only use it for building meter.

In any case, you shouldn’t really be in a position where Q is jumping towards a grounded Twelve. It’s the other way around. And if you meet an aerial Q while air dashing yourself, use MP or MK to swat him out the air. If you are just jumping normally when you meet Q in the air, then EX dive his ass. It’s a double parry, it’s a knockdown, it’s relatively safe if parried.


#10

Just to be on the safe side, is it best to use SA III whenever I fight a Q player?


#11

That’s one of the reasons I think you’re better off running away. Q will not, and should not, think twice about taunting in your face, because the worst any single attack of yours will do is not nearly enough to make him regret the taunt. If you really want to stop him from taunting, you can’t give him even a second to breathe, because that’s about all the time it takes for the taunt to boost his defense. While you’re up on him though, you run the risk of getting hit, and considering Q can ruin a whole round for you just by landing a super, that’s quite a risk. It can be done, but I think it’s safer to stay away, let him taunt (punish it with ex ndl, but you won’t be able to stop the damage reduction in time), and make him come to you, cause Q does not have an easy time trying to catch a runaway Twelve.


#12

No. It’s not as bad an option as it usually is because you’ll have a mega-high defence (and the taunt bonus carries over, of course). But still, no.

If you play SAIII, you’re giving up EX dives and EX NDL because your play will revolve around building and activating SAIII. Without those two things, you’re not going to be able to hold off Q anywhere near as effectively as you usually can.

Also, you’re in trouble if you activate SAIII too. All the Q player has to do is turtle and hold onto his SAII, wait for the timer on your SAIII to run down then SAII you while you’re morphing back. Round over.


#13

cr. MP is no anti-air, it looks like one sure so it gives some of the noobs the idea ur gonna hit them. It only builds bar and can link to a cr. LK

standing HP, great priority, good damage and hits at a good angle makin it hard for some players to parry but yes very slow. U really have to anticipate them to use this, unless your psychic lol

A.X.E. (LP) comes out quickly not much priority, but the HP version does but lacks fast start-up. Plus if the LP version hits once you can follow up with a standing HK or MP. If your move comes out before his all the way then it is sure to hit

EX AXE, but prolly not worth the bar

EX NDL, works well, fast, good priority but timing is key.

XNDL, but they have to be a character’s length away from you

Blocking, but that can lead to a tick throw or tick CDB (Capture & Deadly Blow)

Parrying, duh lol.

Some ppl say standig LP is good, but I dont use it so I can’t confirm that

BMK, can hit as one, but lacks range

Standing MK (reset), super. However some say reset to super is not good with 12. I dont know cause I dont base my game on landing supers, unless your Chun-Li of course lol


#14

Standing LP into LP NDL isn’t bad. Standing LP will reset them, LP NDL will stop them from getting right back in Twelve’s face again.

Also good as an anti-air (especially against cross-ups) - just walk under them. More often than not, you can safely walk under the aerial attack because Twelve’s hitbox while walking is super low, then throw them as they land.


#15

yes that too. I forgot that.


#16

That’s just a bad matchup. After Q taunts up Twelve can only do very minimal damage to Q and Q can just parry mistakes and punish. A good few hits from Q and you’re pretty much having to work for a hell of a comeback to win.


#17

This is excellent advice. Quoted for emphasis.

Duck MP is absolutely NOT an anti-air option for Twelve. Do a standing HP when you KNOw your opponent will jump. IE educated guess. Being a good Twelve player means being able to read others very well.

The great thing about Q is, he’s so tall that HP will hit him even if he doesn’t jump! So it’s a great move to have.

Keep the pressure on Q nonstop. Use standing MP on the ground, and bombard him from the air. You should be able to keep the pressure on safely with Jumping HP, standing MP. Utilize crossup air dash HK’s, regular air dash HK’s, and then you’ve got him guessing start faking and going for throws.

Finally, always be aware that once you start pressuring Q, he’s going to start standing MK’ing you. So once you start to see patterns, start setting up parry traps. Bait a parry, close MP xx SAI does good damage.


#18

Yes, but the problem is getting close to 12 and staying on top of him


#19

:stuck_out_tongue: Never thought of it that way TBH. So basically to be a good Q, I must concentrate on EX moves right?


#20

You’re almost right. To be a good Twelve, you have to concentrate on EX moves :stuck_out_tongue:

As for Q, you’re best off asking ParryAll or UltraDavid or someone who plays Q but from my experience of playing against Q, he’s a bigger threat with stored meter than burning it on EX moves. You’ll see EX dash punch a few times, but that’s about it.