As little posting as this thread may get, I feel it’s important for Twelve to have his own general thread. This will include everything such as mind games, mix ups, random tactics, “combos”, taunting strategies, etc. It would be great to also get in videos of people using Twelve and certain things that may have stood out in matches, such as an unexpected crossover attack, methods of dealing with parry happy opponents, everything.
Something else I have trouble with is approaching shotos from the air. I find it really hard to keep an air poking game going on when a shoryuken can beat out every move I try.
About this thread… that’s a pretty big project. I’ll contribute stuff when this thread gets pushed in certain directions but yeah, it’ll take a lot of effort to get this one going.
You shouldn’t really be looking to hit jump-ins with st.HP. If it gets parried, your opponent has forever to combo you, the recovery is horrible. It’s better to use it when you think a jump is coming and you know you won’t be punished hard if your opponent expects it - st.HP very rarely parried on the way up and even if it is, Twelve tends to recover in time. As an added bonus, the hit box starts loooow, and it’ll hit opponents out of dashes and sometimes even trade or beat pokes clean.
Better anti-airs are jump back > EX DRA, SAI, jab xx AXE, EX NDL or walk under their jump and throw or cr.LK xx AXE or whatever.
And you don’t need to land cr.HK. It’ll get you killed from close up and from range, you really have to condition your opponents before you start landing it. It’s not a bad move but it’s nowhere near essential to Twelve’s gameplan. He doesn’t need knockdowns.
Mikee, would you say that for standing over an opponent who is knocked down and does not have meter, doing AXE on their wake-up is a bad idea? Not all the time of course, used sparingly.
If they’re in the corner, then I’d say not on Urien, Q, Hugo, Makoto, Oro or Dudley. After one parry, they can throw you into the corner and they have a huge advantage with you in the corner. If you have enough time, you want to be just outside of throw range if you’re going for AXE on their wake-up. That way, if it’s parried, they can’t throw you. I also do HP AXE a little early so the first hit sometimes whiffs, makes it harder to parry.
Some players here in London have started red parrying AXE too, so I guess that’s another thing to look out for, how well the other player can red parry.
Midscreen it’s a little harder to set-up because opponents are usually tech-rolling but also, midscreen allows you to be a little more creative if they decide to stay on the deck after a knockdown. You can do stuff like IAD corpse cross-up whatever, air-dash HK cross-up, etc.
So yeah, it depends on the opponent, his habits (does he always wake up DP? Always low parry? Throw on wake-up?) and how used he is to fighting Twelve. If you get the knockdown, I think Twelve has much better options but it’s good to use every now and then so your opponent knows you’re prepared to put pressure on his wake-up if necessary (mix it up with throw, block or cr.LK xx LP AXE, then you can follow THAT with another LP AXE as it tends to whatever normal the opponent throws out after).
Oh yeah, incidentally, if you’re going for chip damage, then HP AXE xx SAI is pretty much unbeatable. Do it from just outside of throw range and cancel the first hit of AXE into the super. Parry xx Super beats it I *think *but most players don’t expect the super, so they either keep parrying at the wrong speed or go for parry > throw. Either way, I’d never had it beaten out. Looks nice too!
Yeah I’ve actually been using cr.LK xx AXE xx SA1 a lot now.
Are you sure that people can’t red parry out of the HP AXE xx SA1? I mean I thought I’ve seen everything, but I was fighting someone and he managed to red parry a Chun SA2 out of a blocked cr.MK.
Chun’s cr.MK xx SAII isn’t new though, everyone expects it. I’m pretty sure when almost all players are chip damage away from dying and block a cr.MK, they’ll then tap towards in anticipation of Chun’s SAII. It’s not -that- hard to red parry either, at least not compared to other chip super set-ups.
HP AXE xx SAI can be red parried, of course, but I’m 99% sure you will never ever see anyone pull that off in competitive play, even casuals for two reasons:
- Most players expect HP AXE to finish them off, so if they block the first hit, they will try to red parry at HP AXE speed.
- Most players haven’t even seen or don’t know HP AXE can be cancelled into super… so once HP AXE starts, they’ll assume it’s that all the way because they won’t have seen any different. Cancelling into super will completely screw their timing.
Okay, so it’s the same reason explained in two different ways, but whatever
That’s exactly what I meant, to prevent jumps the moment they happen. You have to be lucky if you can land the st.HP during the second bit of the jump hehe. Those other jump ins are nice but you have to experience the EX DRA and you’d be surprised at what can over prioritize it. SAI would be a waste but if it’s damage, it’s damage. I think Jab to EX is nice. The last options are quite nice, those I like.
cr.HK has always been part of my repetoire for some damage and getting the opponent into the habit of attempting to parry low, allowing nice chances to land a st.HK or UOH on wakeup. As for shoto’s, I learned to not as glide as often unless the opponent is down or you definately have a good chance. Random shoryukens > air.
Yeah I’ve almost given up on IAD and normal-jump air dash on shoto’s. Rarely, I’ll pull out a superjump air dash maybe to get out of a bad corner situation or just move to the other side for the hell of it.
How is SAI a waste?
If you land it deep enough, the full super connects. It’s the most damaging move Twelve has. It teaches your opponent not to jump in at you when you have meter. They can’t tech-roll after SAI connects, which means you can set-up a deep air-dash HK ambiguous cross-up without having to worry about them tech-rolling. It’s not like Twelve has a luxury of options when it comes to dishing out damage. Maybe it’s just a difference of opinion but I can’t see why you wouldn’t use it…
As for air-dashing at shotos, what I usually do is IAD > HK a fair bit outside of SRK range (so I land about their sweep range) to see if they SRK or not. If they do, you can cr.MK them. Not much, but it hits and it’s risk free. If they don’t throw out random SRKs - and some shoto players don’t - you can IAD > MP from the same range. I’m sure everyone has a different way of dealing with shotos. You can definitely be more flexible against Ryu and Akuma than Ken though, because of the shorter range of their SRKs.
Yeah, Kens EX Shoryuken kills me =[
I’m trying to find the usefulness of SA III. I know that SA I is the most useful out of the three, but my belief is theirs a reason for all Supers in the game. So with that out in the open, who do you all think SA III is most effective against? I’m fairly sure it’s effective against Akuma, but when it comes to “turtle” based characters(Chun-Li) I don’t think it would be that useful.
The reason it’s not effective against Chun-Li is that you’re playing as Chun-Li without super, and she loses a lot of her effectiveness without a super.
X.C.O.P.Y. is best against characters who don’t rely on their super (Chun-Li, Urien, Yun) and don’t rely on EX moves (Dudley, Yang) because those the two things you don’t have when using SAIII. That’s also why most people think it’s good against Akuma, because he has no EX moves and the defence boost covers up his weakness (takes damage like a testicle). You just lose the threat of cr.LK and whiff punishing along with kara-demon, blah blah blah.
The only practical real use for SAIII would be against Akuma or Twelve but I still prefer SAI for those matches. I think it works well against Alex as well, no real reason though, just a personal thing. Still, it’s a fun super to use when dicking about - especially when you kill someone with a jab while in X.C.O.P.Y. and the screen explodes lol
is it just me or twelve has trowing priority? evrytime i do light tornade on him with sean i always get trown before i can do anything, while most the other characters i have time to either tech trow or ex shoryu.
no sean just sucks.
SAIII is so beast, if you’re good at killing within a few knockdowns then use it. i think it’s good against ken, just that if you run out you’re gonna get double srk’d to hell which really sucks. i wouldn’t recommend activating on them with around 75% or higher, you might wanna use the bar for some EX’s until they’re a bit lower on health. i’ll list the characters i think it’s decent to use against.
- yang: EX slash isn’t really needed, his slashes during xcopy is nice enough
- ken: rushdown with roids. meaning double srk on roids.
- elena: not as much, but i like the poking damage.
- ibuki: fun
- alex: no EX flash chop, but jab ones can work. headbutt and powerbomb do massive damage
- akuma: mikee explained
- makoto: rush
of course SAIII isn’t the main choice even in those matchups, but those are the few that are worth a mention.
also mikee you post good 12 tactics from thread to thread, very good stuff from London
What are his moves/specials that avoid throws?
Like Urien’s st. HK (most of the time); Gouki’s f+MP (arcade only) etc etc
Twelve doesn’t really have any moves like that, unfortunately.
EDIT: Roundhouse might work but I’ve never tried it at point blank range.
I’m pretty sure I’ve been thrown out of point blank roundhouse.
lol, yeah HK gets the boot alright. Sides your Twelve, at poitn blank range shouldn’t you be doing the throwing already?