Twelve Match-Up's

I thought we need this thread and let’s do this alphabetically why dont we lol starting with

Akuma
Even though Twelve is highly mobile, Akuma is as well shutting down Twelve’s whole game. Espcially air-dashing. Espcially since Twelve can’t parry whileair-dashing. Akuma has so many things that get in the way of Twelve’s air-game
[LIST]
[]Gou-Shoryuken
[
]Air Hurricane Kick, reset with HP
[]Jumping air-to-air attack, reset, Messatsu Gou-Hadou
[
]Air Fireballs
[/LIST]
But Twelve doesn’t have enough high-prioritzed ground attacks to beat Akuma. Your best bet is NDLs, walk under fireballs to standing MP. Possible anti-air HP’s may work as well
You need to always have bar for this match. EX NDL’s to anti-air his demon flips. EX Dives to get outta his corner traps. Don’t attack close-range on a waking up Akuma. XNDL is also helpful the problem is landing it. Also make sure u know how to parry. (for those god damn air fireballs:mad:) Bait him for shit. After a throw, air-dash in HK, hoping he whiffs a Shoryuken so u can walk-up throw or super him. Overall, I honestly think this match is worse than Ken vs 12 but that’s my opinion

Super art of choice is definetly XNDL - SA1, however I’m wondering if XCOPY is possible but I’d rather have someone else speak on that. lol
Advantage - Akuma

Ryu:

General:
I know this matchup well thanks to Flare. If you play a Ryu who likes to throw fireballs, walk under them so that the Ryu will become trained to not throw fireballs. If the Ryu is ignorant and keeps throwing fireballs and becomes predictable then start IAD over them and teach him a lesson (kind of). Ryu is very strong and can destroy Twelve in a matter of a few combos. You need to avoid this. But fallow the golden rule: Dont be too careless but dont be cautious. Or something like that. Oh yeah watch out for wake up Ex Shoryukens, they go thru EVERY SINGLE ONE of Twelve’s meaty attacks.

Shinku:

Alot of Ryu players like random Ex Hadoukens. Walk right under those fuckers. Be careful with your IAD and dont become predictable or you will eat Ex Shoryuken.

Shin Sho:

If Ryu lands one of these it means major damage to the putty man. Be careful not to IAD right into a waiting Ryu or you will get Shin Shoed in the face. A ShinSho combo can do well over half your heath. Just be careful.

Denjin:

Personally I love this match up. I’m not positive if Twelve can walk under denjin (could somebody confirm this?) but he does have another way around it. If the Ryu lands a Denjin set up and you have XNDL ready, unleash it. If the Ryu releases the Denjin it’ll go right over you. Not only will the Denjin miss you but you just landed a superart! This is awesome because from this point on the Ryu will try to release it early to catch you meaty and makes it easy to parry.

Difficulty:
8/10

Ryus slow shoryuken makes it easy for you to get into bad IAD patterns. Just watch out for his combos and you should be ok.

EDIT: You CANNOT walk under Denjin

Ryu isn’t too much of a threat compared to other characters for Twelve

When he has bar (SA2) stay outta close range o nwake-up and dont AD too much. Maybe early HK to bait him, that’s it lol. Walk under fireballs, go for a standing MP, good range, quick & safe. Or if ya happen to be in the air when he throws a projectile do the DRA

Nice, espically the IAD HK bait. The thing about baiting that is that if you do, theres no way to really punish him after (w/o meter). Its risky and unless you can do it consistently, don’t. My friend whos a Ryu player tells me the hardest part about playing Twelve is landing hits, more specifically super arts. He’s Denjin Ryu and says Twelve is the hardest character to land a setup on. BTW you can’t walk under Denjin.

But cam is right, Ryu is not a really hard match compared to some (Ken, Chun, Elena, Dudley, ect).

Another match that I don’t find too bad is Hugo. Hugo has a really tough time catching Twelve, but if he does it could be the end of the goo man. One random Back Breaker could be the end of the match, espically if you don’t tech roll after. Keep him away with random NDLs, Ex NDLs, standing roundhouse, standing strong, Crouching short and crouching forward to keep him away. If he jumps in on you either get an Ex NDL out or if he trys to jump in and parry use Ex Whippies, so he has to parry a shit load. Or if he jumps in simply dash back, but try not to corner your self. Don’t forget the XNDL OTG combo. If you ever land a neutral throw do the :qcf: :qcf: motion and get ready to hit punch if you don’t see him roll. Don’t airdash alot unless you throw out a strong or forward to knock away a Back Breaker. Just stay away from Andre and you’ll be fine…oh and watch out for random SAII…thier a bitch. Just try to knock him out of it if he catches you in the air.

If you ever read the Street Fighter Anni. Strategy Guide you’ll notice they say Chun is Twelve’s “favorable matchup”. Dead wrong. Chun’s back fierce, and crouching short give Twelve as much problems as every other character in the game. She out prioritizes him in nearly every IAD situation, espically with back fierce, you usually don’t even trade off. IMO Twelve’s favorable matchup is…Sean. Sean lacks a solid anti-air (except SAII) and Twelve can AD on him all day. Not to mention Sean is also in the “low tier” catagory with Twelve, so his punishment factor is shitty too. Outside of a super art, Seans best punishment might be: Fierce, Fierce Dragon Smash. Roundhouse, Ex Tornado. Either way, Seans not going to land those combos on Twelve, unless you miss a superart or something. That being said, remeber that this match won’t be really easy, Sean is a shoto still and a fast one at that. He can still out prioritize you, alot. Standing fierce from a distance (What I call “Dragon Smack”) has alot of range, speed and priority and its hard for Twelve. Fake some IADs and get in on his ass. He lacks a solid reversal move, his Dragon Smash is way to slow to be considered a threat so when you knock him down, start your wakeup game. The only thing you really have to fear is SAII. This will hurt if you get hit by it…alot. Just be careful if Sean has it. Treat Sean kind of like Ken or Akuma when he has SAII, and be really careful when IAD.

Difficulty:

6/10 (W/O Shoryu-Cannon)
7/10 (W/ Shoryu-Cannon)

yeah the Chun-Li match-up is b/s lol. Maybe easier then Ken…maybe but not favorable. They act like she has no anti-airs lol um let’s see her

b + HP, big hit-box and priority
standing far MK
crouching HK
EX SBK sorta but not really
or she can do air-to-air MK

After a throw, since she gets up slow you can possibly try and set-u p a cross-up AD HK on her but it’s hard. Don’t do standing HK when she has bar. If ou block SA2 punish her with a crouching HK after blocking the final hit.

oh and yeah Sean ain’t shit. LOL u can anti-air his Tornado or DP + K with a crouching MK, how pathetic lol

Q:

This matchup is a bitch for both players. I play a bit of Q so I know whats up in this match. Q has a hard time landing hits on Twelve where as Twelve has a hard time doing damage to Q. Q can sit there for the first 8 seconds of the round and get all 3 taunts in w/o taking even 1/10th his heath in damage (shh don’t tell). Twelve cant punish him for just sitting there and taunting. If you see a Q go for a taunt then land a fierce AXE or EX AXE if you can. If not standing fierce does good damage or if you are far away AD fierce or roundhouse. Of course you can land a super if you have it as well. To land damage on Q you’ll need to hit him…alot.

If Q has all three taunts in it takes:

25 crouching shortsxx jab AXE

or

77 jabs

or

8 cr. short xx jab AXE xx XNDL

To kill him :sweat:

My point is that Q is a beast. Twelve takes a shit load of damage, and Q deals a shit load. Being hit once can lead to your downfall.

As Q it takes:

2 Close Forward xx Super Art I + 1 Close forward xx jab slaps.

The air is pretty safe against Q, but random dash attacks can catch you can knock you down. If you find yourself on the ground against Q get away from him. Regular AD work great against him, because you can still mix him up and he can’t catch you with a random dash attack. Watch out for his back+strong though.

Summary:

You need to land alot of hits on Q but be safe about doing it. Q is slow, take advantage of that and his lack of a quick antiair. Don’t waste your meter on missed Ex moves, be cautious.

Difficulty: 7.5/10

Ken:

The dreaded Ken vs. Twelve match up…well dreaded for Twelve at least. This fight will be an uphill struggle for Twelve. First off, Ken has decent defense meaning you’ll have to hit him a good amount of times, which is mission impossible becuase of his jab Shoryuken. Watch your IAD’s in this match because if you get caught with a jab Shoryuken it will means:

Jab Shoryuken xx Jab Shoryuken: 39

Plus he’s got you knocked down for his Ken mixup…not good. Some other numbers you should consider:

Jab Shoryuken (vs AD Twelve): 16
Jab ShoryukenxxJab Shoryuken (vs AD Twelve): 32
Ex Hurriane Kick (Anti-Air/2 Hits)xxJab Shoryuken: 38
Ex Hurriane Kick (Anti-Air/2 Hits)xxJab Shoryukenxx Jab Shoryuken: 46
StrongxFiercexxJab Shoryuken: 45
StrongxFiercexxJab ShoryukenxxJab Shoryuken: 64
Cr.Short Shortxx Shippu: 48
Cr.ForwardxxShippu: 54
StrongxFiercexxShippu: 59
FiercexxStrong ShoryukenxxShippu: 63
Shin-Ryuken (vs AD Twelve)
7 Hits: 40
8 Hits: 42

Wow…poor Twelve. Now let’s get to winning this match up…or at least putting up a fight. Be very very cautious if your even considering air dashing. Whenever I play a Ken I might IAD or AD only once or twice a match. Its not worth getting caught in a jab Shoryuken for 16/32 damage when your trying to land a poke that does: 5 or 11. My advice for this match is don’t try anything fancy, keep it simple. Land your throws and pokes as usual. If you find yourself getting rushed down, get the fuck out of there. BUT do not get yourself caught in the corner. By keeping it simple I mean don’t IAD/AD too much or predictably, don’t try to parry unless you have to and don’t do moves on wakeup.

Overall:

Ken vs Twelve is probally the hardest matchup in the game. As I said before this will be an uphill struggle. Watch out for Shoryukens, espically the range on Ex Shoryukens. With alot of paticence and alot of luck, you CAN win this matchup. You need to know when its safe to attack. Cr. Shorts and Cr. Jabs are very fast, use them alot but don’t become prediactable, a parry can lead to half of your heath gone.

Difficulty:

10/10

Chun-Li:

This bitch give most of the 3rd Strike cast a problem in some way. Twelve is no exception. The strategy guide states this as Twelve’s “favorable match up”. I disagree. As I said before I belive Sean is Twelve’s most “favorable match up”. Chun just has too many high priority moves that destory Twelve’s air game, and most of his ground game. You need to get in on her and wait for the right moment to strike. Watch out for:

Cr. Forward xx Super Art II
B. + Fierce xx Super Art II
Kara Throws

The usual Chun shit. Her super does massive damage to Twelve, espically crouching. To win this match don’t IAD like crazy. Her standing fierce and back fierce will give you terrible trouble. Play her cautiously. Know that if a Chun can parry good. If she tries to parry alot resort to more throws and better mix up. If she just sits back and turtles (as expected) out wait her, you need to build bar too. If you can land a few hits and play keep-away for the rest of the round (aka run out the timer) you’ll be in good.

Overall:

Chun can be a bitch to everybody, her Cr. Forward xx Super Art II will wreck you. Her high priority attacks will wreck you and her air to air combat, will wreck you. Don’t be predictable, land your pokes, get the hell out of there, repeat. Chun’s not quite as hard as Ken, but she ain’t a walk in the park either.

Difficulty

9/10

Ken:

If he does a SRK (LP) close range and whiffs dont try to punish it or else he will SRK (LP) u AGAIN!!! ARRGGGHH! I HATE THAT BULLSHIT!
SA 3 (blocked) is weird for Ken. It’s like a 50/50 situation if ya ask me who gets punsihed but it pretty much determines who throws out what 1st and how fast it is. Luckily, 12’s 2 main punishment moves work for this
Throw (however, Ken will usually try to throw here as well so watch out)
crouching LK, A.X.E. (L),xx, X.N.D.L. if u dont have bar dont bother with the 2-in-1 stick to throw or maybe just block

Q:

What makes this match go either way is that Twelve is very mobile, quick, annoying and hard to catch. On the other hand, Q is very slow, but does more damage and has high stamina

If he gets you caught in the corner with his Capture & Deadly Blow mix-up’s, after he juggles you just hold up and DRA (EX DRA works better if ya got bar 4 it)

Never punished blocked Dashing Straights Punches…EVER!!!
If you can anticipate a Dash Punch you can NDL or XNDL him
At the beginning of the round just try to rush him down (with 12 are u crazy?! lol) but just keep the pressure on him with pokes, NDLs, AD/IAD, throws so he can never get off a taunt.
Yeah you usually keep bar with Twelve, trying to land more EXs than supers, for this match I recomend you ignore that and try to land supers more. But verify them, never throw out a random super ya know lol

Then if you don’t try to punish it and he whiffs another Jab Shoryuken, he can start mixing it up. Example:

1st attempt: Jab Shoryuken (Whiff), Jab Shoryuken (Whiffed/Blocked)
2nd attempt: Jab Shoryuken (Whiff), Jab Shoryuken (Whiffed/Blocked)
3rd attempt: Jab Shoryuken (Whiff), Dash Throw
4th attempt: Jab Shoryuken (Whiff), Overhead
5th attempt: Jab Shoryuken (Whiff), Jab Shoryuken (Whiffed/Blocked)

That is if the Ken knows the match up. If you can react the the second shoryuken, kudos, you can now poke him for 5-6 damage :tup:.

I praticed my ass off and can actually red parry the last hit of Shippu consistently. The only way I’d use it is to hit the Ken with a Strong/Fierce AXE (assuming I don’t have bar). Besides the other two punishments you mentioned you can also do: Close strong xx XNDL. Ex Whippies is also a good option.

No matter how you look at this matchup its gonna be a bitch.

BTW so far only Cam and I have contributed to this thread. Where are all the other Twelve players?

they’re too busy on Ken & Chun’s dick

:rofl: Chun’s dick is huge.

Q/12 Match-Up is spoken on here as well
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102904

Another difficult Match-Up…
Elena

She has great pokes, over-headS not over-head and just about outprioritizes anything from 12.

Try using the same bait tricks on her, like IAD HK to walk-up throw if she whiffs her DP + K

Don’t Cross her up

Don’t know the name or motion, she turns around and jumps kicks you lol corny I know, I think it’s a HC motion. But if blocked, you can throw or super her for free. If you anticipate it, it’s quite easy to parry. But if u block/parry and stand there like a fuckin moron, then she will DP + K yo ass

She can also do the DP + LK (whiff) game like Ken, slightly.

Don’t always assume your safe when in not point-blank range, cause she will KARA that shit down and throw your goo ass!
dont have much else on her, no one really plays her lol

Vs. Yun

He hella rushes Twelve down like it’s no one’s business :(. Especially the rush down tactic of dive kick into block string or throw since it’s really hard to st.fierce the dive kick due to the fact that your reaction time and position have to be pat. Also, Twelve seems to have a lot less options to counter the Genei Jin than other characters. No wake ups to help ease the pain; just blocking or really nicely timed EX NDLs.

VS Yun is damn abnoxious it’s like the 3S version Vega vs Vega in SF2 lol.

Dive kick to chain is real hard to counter and if blocked 12 can’t do much
If ya in the corner and they activate Genei-Jin (not combo into it) HK DRA over them back n forth lol I swear it works on all the Yun’s I played in the past lol

Yuns not too bad, espically if he randomly activates. If he does randomly activate, just play keep away. Air dash or dive past him, make him chase you. Dont be too predictable though because he c an catch you with a palm or dash punch. Besides that dont let him land his target chain xx super because it will destory Twelve.

I love your avatar dude. FUCKIN NICE!

:china:

While Yun’s qcf + P tends to beat whatever poke u got. Plus, if blocked there’s not much Twelve can do since has no real reversal. Either learn to parry it or anticipate it and XNDL him. Try to always keep bar though. You can also coutner his Dive Kick pressure games with EX NDL’s

I duno man, I dont like to play guessing games against a Yun using random dash punches. Thier easy to see coming so parry it and punish as much as you can. Its a waste of meter to guess at him using a dash punch and have it miss. Plus he can probally punish you from full screen with a dash punch. Remeber Yun takes alot of damage too, this fight won’t be too hard if you control the air. Twelve’s IAD has a good amount of priority on Yun’s dive kicks. Just dont get caught by his target chain Genji-Jin. It hurts Twelve…alot. Also if you do get hit by a dive kick into super its usually because you’re crouching which means even more damage. Avoid his decent anti air kicks, as a matter of a fact baiting that would be a good idea. The same way you bait a LP SRK with Ken, with IAD Roundhouse. It should be easier because his antiair kick is slower than Ken’s LP SRK, and does less damage. Yun isnt a terrible match for Twelve either.