Types of Lag & How to get rid of it


#1

Hey guys,

I was wondering if someone could list every type of lag a person could experience when playing on a PS3/PC.

ex. input, display, internet connection, wireless controller etc.etc.

and

How one would go about getting rid of it ?

A few last things:
Is there lag on the ps3 if you use a CRT TV ?
Does it matter that the dualshock 3 is wireless ?
Would there be any lag if you used a sega saturn controller and USB adapter on a PS3/CRT TV or PC/LCD Monitor ?

Thanks


#2

Dont use wireless anything.


#3

I have two ps3s, one wireless and one hard lined. The wireless is shit on the ps3 so I deal with a lot of input delay, at least that’s how it feels to me. I’m no Sako or Yipes, my execution is solid but I struggle with not dropping my more sensitive Viper inputs on the wireless system when playing online as opposed to being very on point when I’m offline or even compared to my hard lined system. I also feel like I can throw in a Light attack before my opponent but I end up either being beaten flat out by their L even when I’m whiff punishing, or it’s like my L doesn’t register and I instead lead off with a M attack in the case of Marvel, which then their mashed L comes out quicker anyway.

I’ve just resorted in trying to play more simple when I’m online and not go for the risky stuff, even if its throwing out feeler pokes from time to time.

I agree with Ellipsen, nothing wireless unless you have to.


#4

Internet: don’t use wireless and don’t play people who use it.
TV: test your tv lag or get one that’s known for not having lag
Controllers: adaptors definetly add lag. Wireless are fine i think but a lot of tournaments ban them.

Also some games have worse netcodes than others, can’t do anything against that.


#5

Are you talking about the PC or PS3 or both ?

So the only way to play with a saturn controller without lag is to buy the Sega/Sony sega saturn USB controller ?

Thank you guys for replying


#6

Alright, so to get 0 lag,
You would need a CRT TV and a wired controller( like the one mentioned above ) for the PS3.

Is that correct ?

As for the PC,

You would need a computer monitor that is known to have 0 lag ?
or play on an old tube monitor
and
a directly connected USB controller (no adapter)

Is that correct ?


#7

I would probably just use a wired one. I’m a perfectionist, but it sounds like care about it, too, or you wouldn’t be asking.

Regarding monitor/TV lag being something humans generally cannot detect, I’m sorry but that’s just not true at all. I can tell a huge difference, and I know other people are sensitive to it as well.

Edit - and yes I play on a CRT, bought a huge one for like $30 on Craigslist.


#8

I don’t need to look it up, because I’ve experienced it, but just to follow through with the science - I know that human reaction time is like .15-.20 seconds depending on anticipation, natural reaction abilities, etc. In fact, in track and field, a sprinter is only considered to have false started if his reaction time is faster than .1 seconds, and that accounts for the time it takes for the sound of the gun to reach his or her ear. Let’s be conservative with all of it, though. I know that I’ve seen people talk about good monitors having like 2 frames of lag. I don’t think it is possible to have 0 lag. So, wouldn’t a bad monitor have at least like 5 frames of lag? So that’s the start up of a crouching medium kick. You’re telling me that a good player isn’t going to feel it if every single thing he does is delayed by the time of the start up of a crouching medium kick, which when compared to human reaction abilities, is adding a significant amount of time compared to a human’s ability to react in real life?

Edit - also, why would Evo go to the trouble to get the fastest monitors if it were scientific fact that people can’t feel it? And why would so many people go to the trouble of obtaining Asus or CRTs, and/or why would players regularly complain about laggy monitors? Do you think we’re all just making it up?


#9

I was just looking at a thread about monitor lag in the tech talk forum, and a guy was asking about a 46ms lag HDTV, and the response was that that is “average for a larger HDTV, not too bad for most games but for a fighting game you want less.” So, that’s about three frames, and that’s average. That sounds like a lot to me, at least for high level players, or even people who suck but just happen to be sensitive to time.


#10

Poe is right.

Yes


#11

Look i don’t know what to say, this is one of those unwinnable debates like netcode, and i really don’t feel like debating it.

If you have ever hanged out with top players you’ll know it’s an issue. It’s the reason why every major tournament gets lagless tvs and if you play at a decent level it’s a very noticeable issue. It messes up with muscle memory on combos that you use visual confirmation, screws up with reaction times and reversal opportunities.

I play sf4 on a xbox and on the pc, and i can EASILY notice the lag on my pc monitor, to the point where i have to perform my combos earlier than my visual confirmation that i get on the console.


#12

Right, like i said it’s not something i intend to convince you of. If you really are so sure about lag on tvs being an “excuse” you should bring this up in the tech talk forums.

I’ll tell you this however: if you play on your personal setup only you won’t care less about lag, because you get used to it and you don’t know better. However, as you play on more and more different setups there’s no way you can’t feel the difference.
This just happened a few weeks ago in a tournament/gathering we had. Since it’s mostly community driven, people bring their own tvs and consoles, which means all kinds of different setups. As people were warming up, there were a lot of complaints from 2 specific setups and we simply did not use those for the tournament, and we made sure the last few matches were played on the same setup, to ensure the lag (if any) would be the same for the last few competitors.

If you’re telling me it’s just a coincidence that unrelated people were complaining about the same setups or that in my own personal experience there is variance among tvs, fine.


#13

I think it’s a lot more winnable than netcode… in fact, I can’t believe it’s a debate - I didn’t know anyone had any doubt about this. News to me.

I’m not trying to start shit or be a dick about this by any means. As cheesy as it sounds, my only interest here is the truth. The guy posted a genuine question, and I want to make sure he isn’t led astray.

The only point I will concede is that I’m sure technology has improved since I had my first super-laggy monitor experience in 2009, but that certainly doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t do some research before you buy a TV. And again I say just go with a CRT anyway. You can play lag free SF and watch football at the same time. Boss, right?

Quotes from 5Star aka Kobe Bryant aka Yi Wang regarding the 3SOE tournament that Iron Galaxy had on laggy monitors (and this was in 2011, not early 2009):
“Yet, these guys also have the audacity to sell match packs from a tourney played on laggy monitors. I mean, I was invited to this event and trust me, as soon as I found out that there was laggy monitors used by people at Capcom, the ones that made this game, I already knew this game was going to suck. I mean if you are the staff making this game and you play on laggy monitors and not notice a difference, lol, you must know nothing about the game at all.”

“3. Laggy ass monitors at Capcom who make these games. Need I say more? Had Pyro actually shown up, he would’ve sat down, played one game, win or lose, got up and just went home. I played Boss first round of the tourney, we played one round, Makoto vs Ken and just looked at each other and laughed at how much of a joke this was. I lost to Boss when he hit me with a Hayate cancel into Seichusen, I had gotten up already, let go of the controller, only to see that, he did not even correctly link into Seichusen, lol.”


So, yeah, I feel like the science, some of the most experienced and accomplished SF players in history, and my own personal experience, which I would have shared with confidence regardless of other sources of support, all point to the same thing, and there’s no real point discussing it further. Oh yeah and otori says so, too :wink:


#14

False.


#15

try a 1frame link on a 50ms (roughly 3frames lag) HDTV, work until you get the timing, then get a lagless monitor and try again the link. You will fail.


#16

Response time IS NOT input lag.
Response time IS NOT input lag.
Response time IS NOT input lag.
Response time IS NOT input lag.
Response time IS NOT input lag.

Please stop spreading misinformation, there may be someone actually trusting your bullshit.
Better yet, step up your game instead of going all the time for jHK crHK. That way you will never be able to detect the problems of input lag.
Your deliberate lack of knowledge regarding the effects of Turbo (2012 AE PC -- Recommending Competition) (2012 AE PC -- Recommending Competition) just demonstrates your utter incompetence in regards of this argument.


#17

To answer you, please don’t post anything anymore about SSF4 technical datas until you participated in an offline tournament.


#18

The only thing I hate is spreading false info when you clearly don’t have a clue. Saying that 50ms don’t make a difference in a game where 1 frame is 16ms, is just against pure logic.


#19

I like playing fighting games & other 2D games with an SNES controller,
I’ve never played a fighting game online, it’s usually always been on the PC on an emulator like MAME.

I connect the SNES controller to the PC with the “USB Super RetroPort” from www.retrousb.com,
I tried it on the PS3, and only 4 buttons register, the rest are duplicates of the first 4 buttons, including start and select.

I just ordered a used Sega Saturn controller from Amazon and a USB adapter from www.raphnet-tech.com,
the adapter was made specially for the ps3. There’s control scheme presets.

So there’s no way of using either controller without lag ?

I prefer gamepads, and the official Sega/Sony sega saturn controller is hard to find these days, I think they stopped production awhile ago.

Would an unofficial SNES USB controller have no lag ?
There’s a lot of them.

There’s also the PS3 Fighting Commander 3 Pro by HORI

I’m questioning whether to buy SSFIVAE for the PS3 or PC,
and I also wanna get Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix for the PSN.


#20

Input lag is noticeable even 32ms.

You have to have both setups side by side to see and feel the difference.

I originally thought it wasnt something humans could detect until I played a lag free setup on CRT… its like night and day… you have to try it and see for yourself. Any decent player will be able to see the difference.