ULTIMATE Balance/Tier talk thread

#1

With permission from Diek.

Since the new game is launching as we speak, it’s a good time to start fresh with a new thread.

Some guidelines I’d love for you guys to try to follow to make it a stronger thread:

Guidelines

Spoiler

1. Keep the crying to a minimum - We get it, X character is either stupid overpowered or stupid weak, or Y matchup is absurdly skewed and how could Capcom be so dumb or evil for balancing this way. However, coming into the thread just to complain isn’t going to help anyone. We’re here to spread knowledge and level up, not throw a pity party. Go to GD if that’s what you’re looking for.

2.** Keep it constructive **- Obviously within reason here, but if someone says something you disagree with, you’re better off explaining why, rather than just calling them an idiot and moving on. The latter approach merely propagates ignorance, which should be quashed at any opportunity.

3.** Tier lists are not popularity contests **- This one should be obvious. If your argument for a character being good/bad is built around how often they win/don’t win majors, it’s a shitty argument.

Editting in more details and trying to come up with a snappier title as we speak.

Opinions on Tier List
#2

Turnabout Phoenix Wright is probably one of the best/strongest characters in the game. If not number one. Amazing normals, supers, assists…he has everything.

Discuss.

#3

Can he land a hit though?

#4

They nerfed the shit out of Zero. I eat my words from a few weeks back. This is kinda sad. I’m not even sure who to use anymore.

#5

Wright will still have bad mobility in Turnabout though. His projectiles in that mode, provided you get the right evidence, might help out though. Especially the Daggers of Denak style one. Don’t know how he’ll get pressure off of himself.

Are you sure it’s not just a matter of adapting to the new Buster? Did they take out some loops?

#6

The hitstun det. changes hurt him a lot. I can barely do the assist enders now unless I do a really short combo. They took a bit of his hit-confirms too. buster ~ :dp::l: hit confirms seem harder and the opponent falls faster from buster shot now. it’s weird.

#7

how about a different way of finding out info about the game this time? before we asked about a character and asked the question “whos assist is best for this character?” now maybe we could ask about the assist and ask who benefits most from it? ie who can use spencers angled assist n combos well, or make use of it in neutral game? what character can make use of chuns lightning legs assist the best? etc etc.

i just think this might be a better way to ask questions because if we keep asking what assist can this character use well… well, the assist wont vary that much cause it will generally just be the most overall powerful assists… like who CANT use a tron or sentinel assist on there team??? or a beam etc etc.

the thing is that there are alot of GOOD assists in the game that may not be godlike… but stil have good use and finding out who can use those assists well may make those assists better as well as usher in more creativity.

other good assists that dont get much mention that could benefit certain teams/characters:

chun LL
sent bombs
trish peekaboo
arthur regular/gold firebottle
spencer zipline
taskmaster parabolic (i really feel this is one of the sleepers in vanilla)
morrigan dark harmonizer

and more of course, the thing is none of these are as good as the haggars/trons/drones of vanilla but they ARE good. so finding a team that can make REALLY good use of them could catapult that assist to s-tier or so, but only when combined with the right characters.

anywho, i simply ask for players to name some underrated assists in there minds and who benefits them or to ask who benefits them.

my question:

are there any characters that benefit alot from chuns LL assist?
that isnt rhetorical im just trying to find a good character or 2 to make use on a chun anchored team.

-dime

#8

Zero is definitely different. But that’s a good thing. You don’t want the same character in another game do you?

#9

He wont need to. Most evidence makes him a keepaway beast, Maya shield is the best shield in the game (unless Nova blows his red life load on a shield), fingers do chip and turn him into a goddamn Harlem Globetrotter with the bounces. The ONLY thing that he doesn’t have going for him is that he’s susceptible to teleports if he plays foolishly.

#10

I guess. But it’s not as fun when I can’t style on somebody for a minute straight. :frowning:

#11

The Zero community will eventually find a way to style. Magneto players thought our styling days were over but we found ways to stay swag so I’m sure the Zero community is capable of the same. Dante players were freaking out at first too but it seems that they’ll be perfectly fine as well.

#12

P wright definately has his bad matchups. Anyone with a teleport that can get around Maya literally shuts him down.

#13

Fark west is a completely broken at LV5, and its much easier for him to get there than it is for Phoenix Wright to get in Turnabout mode.

#14

Thanks for the fresh start.

I was gonna suggest and do that myself but it’s been done. So refreshing.

Jill seems weaker. :frowning:

#15

Frank is really fucking good. Im not sure if Im maining the guy but his slide is really good and he has a safe blockstring with L Zombie Spin (forgot what it was called). Think like the punishing ability and strength of vanilla She-Hulk (which was unreal because of her slide) with the normals of Dante. Broke amirite? Thats just lvl1 btw… wait till he gets to lvl. 2 when he gets his roll and now he has a mix-up. Makes Captain America look like a pussy. Now at this point you did enough damage to get to lvl. 4, where he literally become probably the best in the game. He also hurts like balls…

#16

But unlike Dante, Zero feels way different. Honestly, it’s like I can feel a weight on him now. Sure, he’ll still have combos. I’m sure there will be cool new ones. But I’m not gonna attempt to keep playing Zero until that tech is found for me, because honestly, I just hate how he feels now.

Sucks, too. I love Zero to death.

Right now, Wesker is a dominating force, definitely. Vergil is amazing, too. Fools online don’t know how to block teleport :m:. Hahahaha.

#17

Dr. Doom is so stupidly good. The only thing I’m seeing that he has to adjust to is using slightly different midscreen combos because of the new HSD/floatiness, but otherwise he’s completely intact and then better in a bunch of ways.

I’m struggling to see how his j.:s: isn’t better than Wolverine’s dive kick. Priority wise they feel similar to me. He gets bigger damage off it when it connects. He can cancel it on whiff, block or hit into flight mode or other air specials. He can dash cancel it after a :f::h:. Sooo good.

#18

Vergil deals good damage and builds his own meter for that purpose. His air reset game afterwards reminds me of good ol’ Wesker. Very strong teleport. Top tier potential.
Hawkeye is definitely god in controlling space. His normals are quite awkward to use and slow. His horizontal arrows assist is good. Can’t find anything abusable, except the best Lvl1 Hyper in the game.
Strider & West Assist aren’t that imbalanced as Tron/Haggar/Gouki/… - They don’t have any invincibility on startup in my opinion.

#19

Preliminaries for Top Tier Day 1 for me.

Strider, Wesker, Vergil, Frank, Dr. Doom, Dormammu

Also, don’t sleep on Trish. She now has damage via mashing and she doesn’t seem that unchanged + her buffing.

I think team Devil May Cry may end up with all 3 members as Top Tier.

Also, Frank is plain retarded. Best normals in the game easily once Leveled up. Jesuschrist. Frank has damage, beast normals and good assists. He can’t be lower than Upper Mid. Too good!!! :eek:

#20

I’m betting Trish winds up just below the top tier again in this game. There’s a lot of BS that can swat her out of the sky still (Vajira, Log Trap, Energy Javelin, etc.), and lots of teleporters with the new cast.

I bet she’ll do well against Frank and Phoenix Wright though, which seems important at the moment given how crowded those bandwagons are getting.