Ultimate MVC3 Strategies/News Guide. UPDATE: Viper's S cancel infinite, Chrisis vs. Champ FT10


#1

The old thread is not getting updated and all so I’m just making a new one that I will request for sticky. I’ll put in any of the good stuff from the old thread and add new stuff regularly

UPDATE: Viper’s straight up infinite (no TAC’s), FT10 Chrisis vs. Champ.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/ultimate-mvc3-strategies-news-guide-update-vipers-s-cancel-infinite-chrisis-vs-champ-ft10/136211#post-6065494

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fMz3sHNv8Q&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL#t=1m02 s
***You might think the game is cheap but it is definitely one of the most creative in strategies you can employ of all the newer games to come out. You even have to worry about the mid tiers in this game and everyone generally has really good buttons, specials, and some characters have really strong assists as well. It’s dealing with all so fast that makes MVC3 what it is. When Ultimate comes out expect plenty other characters outside of Phoenix to give you problems and any team winning on any Sunday. ***

**Quick primer about mix ups in UMVC3: Basically in this game there are TWO general types of mix ups (read left/right one especially before complaining about raw/no assist teleports). **

LEFT/RIGHT MIX UPS

[details=Spoiler] 1. Left/Right mix ups. Assisted left/right (most common) OR solo left rights (character uses their own body) OR tracking projectile based (character ports around while projectile is tracking opponent). The most important mix up in the game basically and you better know how it works by the time Ultimate comes out. The specific way this mix up works is quite different from mix ups in other fighting games and forces you to have worry about your left/right blocking as much as you normally do your high/low blocking in other games.

**There’s a new way to implement these mix ups in MVC3 with teleport/command dash based characters + assists. ** The opponent must not be blocking anything for these to work. Basically what it entails is using a teleport OR a command dash in a way so that there’s a hit box in the middle of it so the teleport or command dash becomes a left/right version of an air dash high/low mix up. These mix ups are much safer and are much harder to block than just doing a raw teleport or command dash and can lead to combos on hit or another safe mix up on block.This also works with characters that have strange movement abilities like Spencer’s wire grapple.

EXTRA NOTE: Can also be done with anyone with an air dash by simply air dashing behind the opponent right before the assist makes contact with them.

Doing teleports/command dashes raw is a scrubby technique you may find the average guy doing but good players know to always call a strong assist and then teleport right before the assist is to make contact. This forces the opponent into a super fast decision to block left or right depending on if the assist will hit them before or after you teleport. If they guess wrong, you get free combo. If they guess right you get another free mix up because the assist locks them down and makes it so they can’t advance guard you.

**Doing teleports/command dashes raw can be punished easily depending on character. **If Dante does a raw teleport without calling an assist or using hysteric or multi lock to put something in the middle of the teleport…the opponent can just jump up and air grab him or mash s.L or S to anti air him. When he does call an assist or use hysteric or multi lock then the opponent is stuck in a free 50/50 mix up and can’t air throw punish him AT ALL unless he times the assist incorrectly. With other characters like Wesker his L or M teleport (the ones that travel along the ground) although they look fast have 20 frames of recovery. If you know he’s going to do a port near you can just mash on buttons and hit him as soon as he comes out of the port. You can do the same to like Deadpool’s ports but it’s much harder since his ports only have 10 frames of recovery. Strange’s teleports will most likely recover just as fast or faster so his will most likely be hard to even punish when done raw.

Dealing with Wesker’s raw ports.

[media=youtube]aw6EzSOJE1c[/media]

[media=youtube]C8qQ55qyhjE[/media]

X-23 has the fastest starting left/right move in her M mirage feint which has only 3 frames start up. The issue is if you do it raw can be hit in the middle of it and it has 25 frames of recovery if you whiff it. This move is EXTREMELY powerful with the right assists but extremely nearly useless without assists. Picking the right assists to unlock this great special move’s real power is extremely important. X-23 also has extremely ambiguous dive kick based left/right mix ups that can cross up crouching opponents without actually going behind the opponent. Which acts like an overhead that instead of actually hitting you overhead it just creates a cross up that looks nothing like a cross up. The only way to escape this dirty mix up is to stand up which forces you to be bitten in the ankles and comboed any way. The only other thing that kinda works is trying to air throw it or XF guard cancel it.

Characters like Phoenix, Dante and now Dr.Strange can set up this mix up for themselves by calling a projectile that stays stationary on screen in front of the opponent and then teleport around for a 50/50. Dr.Strange has 2 projectiles for this purpose. He can basically do HIS OWN assist left/rights. He has a special called Disks of Denak that throws out a Phoenix salty ball style set of discs that home on the opponent. Once they seek the opponent they travel at a super fast speed and then you can use Strange’s super fast teleport to set up a free 50/50 by yourself. He also has another projectile called eye of agomotto which basically acts as a special move version of Dormammu’s stalking flame/big ball of fire super that he can also do the same thing with. Right before it hits them…SWITCHEROO!!!

**This is also why I feel Jill specifically will be really nasty in Ultimate once people get her together because she has the old school MVC2 style 4 corner mix ups. Jill definitely has the MVC3 equivalent of the MVC2 vortex if she gets in. **She can hit you high/low go behind high/behind low etc. Add in assists in the middle and good luck blocking the right way. FAIR GAME IS FAIR YAYYYAAY!!!

[media=youtube]6_GFqRIU6Pg[/media] Magneto goes behind the opponent and hits them overhead. Forcing them to block high in the other direction in an instant when they’re already worried about lows and highs from the front. You’ll also notice the commentator said the word “vortex” that’s commonly used for cross up/high low mix ups in SFIV. Those mix ups ARE NOTHING compared to MVC2/3 mixups. The term VORTEX originated from MVC2.

One last thing to note about these mix ups is that they DO NOT WORK if the opponent is blocking anything. Once you block something the game AUTO LEFT/RIGHT BLOCKS FOR YOU until you leave block stun. You can ONLY do high/low mix ups if the opponent is already blocking an assist or other attack. Left/right teleport/command dash mix ups will not work if they are already blocking something.

Video Explanations.

[media=youtube]4h4Xfma0uhI[/media]

Dr.Strange’s Speed of Light LEFT RIGHTS!

[media=youtube]NUACJHjV-6g[/media] (the big beam basically acts as a hit box while he teleports like the Seth fireball teleport stuff in SFIV)

[media=youtube]Nr3h1nsEymI[/media] (assist based left/right)

[media=youtube]Nr3h1nsEymI[/media](projectile/self assist left/right) [/details]

HIGH/LOW MIX UPS

Spoiler

2. High/Low mix ups. These mix ups include using jumping overheads or having them whiff into c.L’s. This also includes the infamous up/down air dash mix ups from Magneto and Storm. A great way to keep people locked down for these mix ups is to have an assist that hits multiple times and locks people in place so they can’t push guard you out. Unlike left right mix ups…high lows can still work even if the opponent is blocking something like an assist before hand.

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Game System and Strategy Threads/Posts/Sites

- Need the right assists**?** This is a great primer for teaching you how to find good assists for your characters. You can’t just put your boys on a team and expect the perfect team a lot of the time. Assists are also your strongest tools to keep from getting advance guarded to the other side of the screen all day.

- Marvel vs Capcom 3 Wiki
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Marvel_vs_Capcom_3

Constructive Discussion Threads/Posts

- About Viscant winning Evo and why you should think cheap when you put your team together. Not necessarily top tier…but definitely think cheap. Create a team that will set up punishing, hard to escape situations for your opponent and mitigate the chances you will be put in those situations.

- Balance and Potential TEARS discussion.

- Who’s gonna be BROKEDY BROKE in Ultimate and who’s just gonna be bankrupt?
http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/busted-or-bust-lets-bet-on-who-what-ends-up-being-broke/135796page-3

- My projected TEAR/CRY list for the Vanilla MVC3 characters in Ultimate. How I think they will stand.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/busted-or-bust-lets-bet-on-who-what-ends-up-being-broke/135796page-3#post-6028060

- NEW (1:18AM EST 11/5/11): My take on the options and potential of the new characters in Ultimate.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/mvc3-actual-balance-potential-tiers-discussion/122224page-323#post-6087277

News Threads/Podcasts/Articles/Videos

DISCLAIMER: This will NOT ALWAYS contain news from the front page of SRK. This is more so to get the news out there that doesn’t always hit the front so people can get a wider aspect of what’s going on in the game. If you’re not following the front page SRK stuff…don’t expect to always find it again here.

  • NEW: Interview with G.X/Kuuronn Japanese high level MVC3/UMVC3 Spencer/Hulk/Doom player.** Known for his top play in poverty games such as Japanese TvC (Casshern/Roll) and Hokuto No Ken (Raoh). ****The godfather/originator of the MVC3 scene in Japan. **Talks about driving 5 hours to play with other top players and talks about SpinKing (Mag/Doom/Phoenix) who is a 2D Poverty/Shitty Fighter God (best of the best of 2nd rate/underplayed fighting games). Also gets into which character he believes is an untapped dark horse of the game.

[media=vimeo]33999894[/media]

- Ultimate MVC3 changes/balances thread. Talks about the changes made to the Vanilla characters in UMVC3.

- Official UMVC3 Early Sightings and Street Date Breaking thread.

** (11:18PM EST 11/3/11): Wake up SRK podcast where Viscant talks about how he feels about Vanilla and Ultimate MVC3.** Typed out the jist of what he was saying so you don’t have to listen for 2 hours.

** (6:17AM EST 11/4/11) Forgenjuro of SRK interviews Freida top Japanese Dante/Zero/Akuma player (I think that’s his team) on his thoughts of UMVC3.** He feels top 3 of the new characters will be the same as my new people team (not surprising I went total Japanese on my new team).
[media=vimeo]31555664[/media]

** (3:22PM EST 11/4/11) Japanese interview with Tokido and Freida (not translated) that has several videos that show off changes for some of the characters and the XF changes. **
http://www.4gamer.net/games/137/G013710/20111030001/

- NEW (1:50PM EST 11/6/11): Fanatiq’s opinions of UMVC3 just before the release. What he expects both good and bad out of the game.
[media=youtube]ip42Dof_LP8[/media]

- NEW (1:03AM EST 11/7/11): Portugal Playtest findings thread.

** - NEW (2:43PM EST 11/10/11): News section has update with link to youtube channel that shows off how hit stun deterioration changes affect some of the old cast (X-23 and Akuma are up now).**

Video Tutorials.

- The guy who won Evo himself with a video tutorial on the basics of MVC3.

**[media=youtube]8fMz3sHNv8Q[/media] **

- Pretty much anything on this youtube channel for the 2 people that don’t know about it already.

**- My general character tech youtube play list that will show off the things I’m learning with specific characters. **
http://www.youtube.com/user/DevilJin01?feature=mhee#p/c/9C2D5C551090C309

- IN PROGRESS: Video tutorial for a lot of the game’s basic mechanics that may not already be explained in the Viscant 1.0 video.

Channels/Streams To Watch

SMAOI2010’s YouTube Channel. Regular footage of higher level Japanese players playing online. Some of the well knowns like Kuronn and Condor Missile tend to be on often.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SMOAI2010?feature=watch

FlyingVe’s YouTube Channel. UMVC3 forum’s resident tech video guy. Always has the high quality footage/production.

DevilJin01’s YouTube Channel. My Youtube channel where I put up tutorials for X-23 and match vids and general tech for my X-23/Dante/Iron Man team and other teams.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DevilJin01/featured

Final Roundbats Twitch.tv Channel. Occasional stream with small tournaments for UMVC3 and other games in Japan. Notable high level Japanese players tend to frequent.
http://www.twitch.tv/finalroundbats/b/305451030

The Box Arena Twitch.tv Channel. Every Tuesday Night, UMVC3 and SSFIV AE tourney double feature event.
http://www.twitch.tv/theboxarena

VG Boot Camp Twitch.tv Channel. Every Wednesday Night stream of Baltimore MD’s best (sometimes I’m there too) in UMVC3. Started doing Friday Night casuals also.
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

8 Way Run Twitch.tv Channel. Most Tuesday nights a stream of the some of the East Coast’s Finest in New Jersey.
http://www.twitch.tv/8wayrun

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So I'm REALLY new to Marvel
ULTIMATE Balance/Tier talk thread
#2

General Videos

DISCLAIMER:*** This will NOT ALWAYS contain videos from the front page of SRK. This is more so to get the videos out there that don’t always hit the front so people can get a wider aspect of what’s going on in the game. If you’re not following the front page SRK stuff…don’t expect to always find it again here.***

NEW: Viper Infinite

http://www.twitch.tv/mrfanatiq/b/325663332v?t=3h01m35s

NEW: Chrisis (Viper/Dante/Strider) vs. F.Champ (Mag/Dorm/Missiles) FT10.

** Japanese Strider players @ Kubodsgarden (Chou as Strider/Magneto/Vergil and JEO as Morrigan/Wesker/Strider)**
Chou specifically is a top Blazblue player that has won SBO.
[media=youtube]F44vWdWS3d0[/media]

[media=youtube]GwZfdtiHGqY[/media]

** Maziodyne’s Corner Doom “ROM” combo**
[media=youtube]mcnuKC94lQ4[/media]

** Sehmehnov’s Doom Wall Carry TOD combo.**
[media=youtube]XjA61ejLrPw[/media]

** Maziodyne’s Dr.Strange Vortex Vi**deo
[media=youtube]2um416ZXBDA[/media]!

Final RoundXV Kusoru Match Vids
http://www.youtube.com/user/Emillll?ob=0&feature=results_main#p/u/5/dEaZFTUGk3I (vs. Filipino Champ)
http://www.youtube.com/user/ Emillll?ob=0&feature=results_main#p/u/4/Mqz8IGCBXGo (vs. Flocker)
http://www.youtube.com/user/ Emillll?ob=0&feature=results_main#p/u/3/8fiRouyw7jU (vs. Combofiend)
http://www.youtube.com/user/ Emillll?ob=0&feature=results_main#p/u/2/QlzNa8p2sgA (vs. Mihe)
http://www.youtube.com/user/ Emillll?ob=0&feature=results_main#p/u/1/A7xYnFml2r4 (vs. Yipes)
http://www.youtube.com/user/ Emillll?ob=0&feature=results_main#p/u/0/W7XBncjF4xw (vs. PR Rog)

More Maverick 8 combo options/tech
[media=youtube]P7JZRqPWbP8[/media]

** Flying Ve’s Strider Formation Tech.**
** [media=youtube]w0GYUZpkkrQ[/media]**

Flying Ve’s Round Trip tech.
[media=youtube]VE2tRK1LIq0[/media]

Tech with Repulsor Blast on point and as assist.
[media=youtube]09gE_7mi7mI[/media]

OFFLINE Kubodsgarden UMVC3 Japanese matches (featuring Japanese 2D poverty fighter god SPINKING with his Mag/Doom/Phoenix).
[media=youtube]qBzkI1xNQ7o[/media]

Other matches
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=5FFMaorR3eg&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=6khjEKf74Y0&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=DUBxV646CfA&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=FIbvhHGXQIg&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=phibAiUpT10&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=irDw3QgD5co&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=weOD1RJ-7E4&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=9at6OIJ3f8s&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=T3rKYUFyfNg&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=I7XfbciPfvo&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=jyuSvLwoz1Y&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=zA5T3C9mfGY&feature=channel_video_title

- 100 dollar Canadian Money match.
[media=youtube]FDyjDRHmHpc[/media]

- 40+ min casual set vs. my bro
[media=youtube]U6vrafyEl5w[/media]

- Japanese Online Match Vids; Featuring Condor Missile’s Cap/Sent/Iron Man team.
[media=youtube]Pcm7qJU645g[/media]

- Flying Ve’s Sword Storm Reset Video
[media=youtube]Y3bJc1u5K8s[/media]

- NEW: MODOK Tech Video
[media=youtube]VuGZQ4q7OUo[/media]

- Flying Ve’s Crossover Counter Tech Vid
[media=youtube]M-Zi8t_yfU0[/media]

- Vids of OmniScythe’s Vergil/Morrigan/Wesker team
Unique synergy between Morrigan and Vergil. Makes use of Vergil’s much improved capabilities in DT.

- Nova Javelin Vortex
[media=youtube]ciliTYXki0U[/media]

- 40 MIN IRON MAN TECH VID! Bluebomber XTJ production
Most likely gonna be on front page SRK soon but fuck it.
[media=youtube]Zyt_jGJ_YDg[/media]!

- Maverick8’s Trish Tech Video
[media=youtube]2DjT0cx1tTc[/media]

- Comparison of Iron Man and Doom beam assists (for 23/Dante with mention of other beam style assists)
[media=youtube]pAldlt8vsxo[/media]

- My own 25 minute X-23 Changes Evaluation video.
[media=youtube]aXSr4vI33Y8[/media]

- Stream recap of UMVC3 matches at Barfights.
http://www.twitch.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=302369637
» Part 2 http://www.twitch.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=302376914
» Part 3 http://www.twitch.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=302382204

** - Pre release Strider Combo Exhibition.**
[media=youtube]CygKVB88RMM[/media]

dkls


#3

I’ll update this third post with the new DHC glitch exploit or whatever we find in Ultimate that causes just as much rage.

If not I’ll just edit this post and replace the current text with “Jean.”


#4

That’s fine for now. I’ll probably only need 2 real pages any way if even.


#5

Already PM’d you before I made the thread.


#6

yo dj nice thread, as always.

hey you left out unblockables, and even though they arent “abused” that much they still have there place as a mainline mixup/advantageous position to aim for.

one thing i’d like to see in this thread or another one is a list of ALL the different things assists can be used for and citing video examples wherever possible…
ie:

assist uses:

1.lockdown for a high/low mixup
2. for added durability points on screen when using a keepaway character that uses fireballs
3. to cover different angles of approach while your point character covers the other ones
4. as crossups, explained in your first post
5. as bait.
6. as a gtfo.
7.as a way in. via a beam.
8. to cover for laggy moves on block or to cover long startup moves… ie ironmans unibeam assist to cover storms typhoon startup.
etc etc.

i could probably come up with 20 different uses if i thought really hard… but having many sources of input could make it so that folks such as myself may learn a thing or 2… the cool thing is that the uses dont really need huge explanations or anything. so people can read the list quickly and maybe find something that they never thought of… even one thing learned can make someones game alot better, depending on what it is.

-edit… @DJ: cool but lets let the thread marinate for a bit so that more uses (if any come) get mentioned. those that are self explanatory probably wouldnt need video. like using sent dones with mags will be an easy way to show lockdown assist for high/low mixup, so easy it probably doesnt need a vid… but still maybe for completions sake it could be added.

anywho to any other lurkers/regular readers if you’d like to partake in naming off some uses for assists that havent been mentioned i’d like it if you spoke up… this way no one person has to take on such a monumental challenge as trying to name off 1 or 2 hundred different ways to use them, and everyone could possibly benefit… think of it like a game, to see how many uses we can find.

well, hopefully some others would like to play if for nothing other than boredoms sake… the more numbers we get the harder it will be to find more and more uses… and even dumb uses as long as they are TOO far fetched will be added.

9.to hit/counter the opponents assist: ie call haggar lariat to counter trons gustaffe flame, or call unibeam assist to counter hidden missiles/drones assist.
10. as a combo extender, ie as an otg or as an otg/regular attack hits.

lol its already getting kinda tough.
as a way to keep shit chronological and on point if any contributions are made it would be nice to keep thew number format going so for instance if DJ wanted to name an assist use he would start at 11 since the last one given was 10.

it will also make it easier to eventually put everything in the first post as well as let people know what the current list has.

-dime


#7

I can eventually make videos of that stuff and post it up.


#8

Don’t forget to post a section on how important it is to avoid a mixup rather than trying to block it. In my opinion, your defense still needs to be really good to be good at this game, but more importantly you need to know the best way to avoid getting mixed up.

Oh and j.H/airthrow option select shit and which characters it works best for (She-Hulk, Task, Magneto etc). And alternatively about doing aerial command normals/throw break option select like Wesker and Wolverine (doing df or db instead of just d)


#9
  1. to deliver an unblockable. (this is different from a lockdown assist used to facilitate high/low mixups)
  2. as a way to negate/get passed/ignore advancing guard (pushblock)
  3. this is special for flight characters: assists can be called during FLIGHT ACTIVATION or deactivation as long as the flight wasnt done during a superjump. for whatever reason flight doesnt count as a special move for assists meaning that one can do qcb (the motion for most flights) +S+a1 or a2 and get out flight plus assist.
    a nice example of an easymode unblockable with a flight character would be ironman regular jump tridash m +flight cancel plus wesker low assist call then down+h with ironman for the unblockable…

watch out for happy birthdays when doing this cause its nowhere near a safe on block string, use at your own risk, but stuff like that is available with every flight character that has a low assist to work with afaik.
14. as a hitconfirm: ie akuma tatsu, tron fire, ironman repulsor spread, haggar lariat.

-dime


#10

Good stuff. Will you be updating the assist thread to adjust for changes and new characters?


#11

Hey good shit DevilJin, I like this thread. You might wanna put some vids of the tier characters doing the teleport+assist bullshit (lol x-23)

But yeah, those kinds of mixups are so cheap. I feel like they’re more like guaranteed damage for positioning than mixups because I only see people block them in the right direction 1/5 times

If anything the way to get out of the mixup is to pushblock the point character’s contact with you, like Dantes that do st.A + call akuma into teleport. That’s assuming there is a hit to pushblock though

You can also super-jump/fly over a character coming in when a character dies. I always see Fanatiq do this with Sentinel, he has Sent on point with Storm lightning attack assist, and he flies over a character coming in while calling storm and smacks with S. Good stuff


#12

Yeah this game is more about spacing yourself from the crazy mix ups than actually blocking them. Like James Chen said, you can block 7 things right but you block the 8th thing wrong and you lose life.

I can definitely get into the OS stuff sometime.

Fo Sho. I’ll do what I can but will definitely need the help of the people in the character threads also. Some people like the ones in the Hulk thread still haven’t posted anything. I guess they just don’t like Hulk enough to care. LOL.

I could do some vids of other characters but it’s all the same kinda premise. I just did it with X-23 cuz she and Dante are my main point characters and seeing she has a command dash that is exactly designed for the purpose of assist cross ups I would just put her up (I already made the video a long time ago any way). Plus her mirage feint can get behind you faster than any other command dash/port in the game so it’s good to use her to show just how fast the mix up can be.

Yeah you pretty much have to assume the opponent is going to cross you up and block the other direction beforehand kinda like Seth in SFIV. You can’t wait for the cross up cuz its usually too late.

Pushblocking the normal they tick with before the assist can be tricky because if you try to push block but are not actually in block stun you will get hit also. Plus Dante has a tracking teleport so he gets a free mix up next to you even if you push guard it. If you have no other choice you might as well do it but most characters still get another cross up/high low/throw mix up any way. I would say your best overall recourse is if it’s a horizontal assist to just jump out of the mix up so the only thing they can do is try to throw you or dash under you to dirty cross you up.

The dash over on welcome is pretty smart mix up. Wolverine can do that bullshit with his dive kick and dash under people into drill claw into combos also. Tron can air dash ambiguous H over and it’s really fuggin tough to block.


#13

you guys should probably desticky the old old faq and the ‘basics guide’ too. Been thinking about that for a while, but this thread makes it even more obvious :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

LOL. I’ll get Preppy on it.


#15

Typed out a breakdown/jist of the general information that was said in the Viscant podcast by Viscant, Keits and Skisonic. Discussed a lot about Vanilla MVC3 and how he thinks the new characters and overall startegies will work in UMVC3.

00:00 – Shoryuken! Guest intro by Gabe (new intros still welcome)
00:58 – Chit-chat
01:35 – Jump-in to the News
01:40 – Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 changelogs have come out
03:43 – Videos of Frank West and Rocket Raccoon released
09:55 – Twitch.tv announces Jared Rea as their new community manager
10:25 – Twitch.tv to partner with Canada Cup – pay-to-view Premium HD-stream
14:00 – Double Elimination Team Tournament at Canada Cup with $5000
15:55 – Mago vs Fuudo FT10 by Topanga.tv over
17:49 – Introducing (still pantless, still winning) Viscant

**20:38 – Viscant’s new thoughts on ‘Wesker-Wolverine-Phoenix’-dominance and Zero: ***Viscant goes into how he feels Zero is within a class of characters like Magneto and Wesker. Believes Zero still struggles against Phoenix. Yet with a player like Flocker it doesn’t matter since Zero is in front and will never have to fight Phoenix any ways. He either destroys the whole team before hand or just dies and never has to worry about the matchup either way. *

**22:45 – Dante, the actual menace: **Feels Dante is within top 3 characters of the game (which isn’t surprising since Flash Metroid said from a long time ago that he was top 2 with Phoenix). PR Rog was apparently beating people with perfects using Dante during casuals and money matches at Season’s Beatings. Has mix ups with Devil Trigger and Tron where you have to block 4 to 8 mix ups in a row to not get hit. Viscant goes on to say that Dante is a top character that STILL has been vastly under explored. Feels if the game had gone on long enough that the only way to fight Dante would be to put Haggar on your team. Which goes on to show how important of a character Haggar is even just being CapCom tier.

**25:08 – She-Hulk’s placement: *Says She Hulk’s placement early in tournaments was based on just top players using her more so than how good the character actually was. ***

EXTRA DEVILJIN’s THOUGHT: Most likely had to do with doing well against another overrated point character (Sentinel) early on. She happened to be good against the insurmountable robot that people had trouble with and then she just had momentum for a while.

27:30 – Ultimate MvC3 – thoughts on characters

28:03 – Frank West:*** Viscant feels he looks really fun to play and will probably end up being one of his 10 most used characters.** Looks like a lot of work to play well but will like the effort.*

**28:50 – Nova: ***Feels Nova looks really strong but really boring. Viscant will end up playing him if he ends up being near top tier. *

**29:11 – Iron Fist:**Viscant really likes the idea of Iron Fist. Just worried about his viability because he has hit boxes that tend to whiff and his launcher only works on grounded opponents. Keits goes into how he’s supposed to be the new “invincible assist” guy. Viscant feels the assist causing a wall bounce will work well for teleport characters, but doesn’t really see as much application for characters like Spider Man who will most likely only get super at best.

31:42 – Nemesis:*** Feels that Nemesis doesn’t seem like he’s going to be too good.** 1.3 million health is just a way to justify a character being limited in tools and movement. Keits says it doesn’t look like Nemesis can cancel his dash. Goes into how some characters like Dorm and Doom can’t cancel their dashes and how it limited them.*

EXTRA DEVILJIN’S THOUGHT: Dorm and Doom can’t cancel their dashes into attacks but Doom specifically can at least cancel his dash into jumps then dash back down and attack again. Hulk is probably more reminiscent of a character that can’t cancel his dash at all and being a high health character I guess that goes in line with Nemesis being another Hulk like character in movement.

**32:43 – Ghost Rider:***Viscant feels that Ghost Rider/Nicholas Cage will be the new O.Sent. Character with really annoying normals that people have trouble with for a while. Yet after a while people will learn to deal with him and he’ll become more modest overall. Feels he will probably shut down some types of characters but will not be a top tier character. *

**34:07 – Vergil: **Keits says Vergil looks like Dante and Wesker fused together with Dante’s power and normals and Wesker’s ease of play/mix ups. Viscant says he had a talk with Andre/Twisted Jago and apparently Jago feels that Vergil will be limited and may only reach high/mid tier at best because the stuff that people are doing on videos is highly punishable. Viscant goes on to say that a lot of the issues of Vergil being unsafe will most likely be mitigated with the use of meter or assists. Keits joked around about how Justin said that anyone with a sword is really good.

EXTRA DEVILJIN’s THOUGHT: I feel it’s a little preliminary to say overall. How do we know we’ve put together everything with Vergil before the game is out to say he has no safe block strings without assists or meter? I doubt Devil Trigger is just going to automatically give him safe block strings. Relying on swords dance super for safe block strings is retarded because if he gets hit during the swords dance it supposedly goes away. After all we’re talking about the same character that can supposedly chain H into S as an infinite block string. I feel once people create safe block strings with him without meter or assists he’ll be completely fine. I also feel the fact that his assists become much bigger/stronger in when he is in Devil Trigger will be a big thing to consider as well.

**36:44 – Firebrand: ***Viscant feels Firebrand is a “New Felicia” (my term, not Viscant’s) style character that he will be a character that is under everyone’s radar but when figured out will prove to be a real threat. Says he always thought MODOK beat Wesker but it wasn’t an issue because NOBODY picked MODOK. Talks about strong MODOK player named Pigg. Worried about how Firebrand will be a top tier that people won’t put the work into. Keits goes into how the game in general is a low effort game. Viscant says overall the game will be like Vanilla where people will just keep using the easier characters and the ones that look harder to play will just kinda get thrown under the bus until someone breaks through with them in tourneys. *

**39:10 – Rocket Raccoon: **Feels Rocket Raccoon got balanced similarly to Frank West in a “last minute” sense. Feels Frank West was balanced by just tacking on more and more shit so that he would at least be guaranteed to be decent. Feels Rocket Raccoon was balanced by giving him a bunch of crazy shit and then KNEE JERK HEALTH NERF balance ala O.Sent. Goes into briefly how Phoenix supposedly used to be able to put hundreds of feathers on the screen in Dark Phoenix mode and was completely more broken than how we know her now.

EXTRA DEVILJIN’s THOUGHT: Sounds like another typical Zero/Strider character that’s going to be completely bullshit to fight with the only issue of having low health. I love Capcom’s balance ideas.:shake:

Looks fun though.

CONTINUED NEXT POST DOWN.


MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion
#16

**41:40 – Strider, Hawkeye: **Feels Hawkeye could be really strong. Like OP strong. Doesn’t understand how Hawkeye ended up getting She Hulk’s slide. Feels net trap could be nasty for inescapable resets if they still don’t let you tech during things that immobilize you like Spider Man’s web ball. Relates She Hulk/Tron’s infinite to MVC2 Anakaris/Cyclops infinite. Worried about his “heat seaking, anywhere on the screen I will hit you, 250k damage level 1 super”. Could be a very anti Phoenix super. Says “that is not a good idea” repeatedly. Feels he needs to be incredibly bad at something or will be OP.

EXTRA DEVILJIN’s NOTE: I personally like the fact that he got a good slide because it makes him a zone oriented character that can actually move around also. It’s stupid for zone based characters to not at least have good movement because it’s freaking MARVEL. You don’t wanna be Arthur not doing anything but shitty double jumps and not having a dash. Even with all of those notes I still don’t see anything that sounds OP since characters that dominated Marvel games in the past have been characters with just bullshit mix ups and normals. Long as he doesn’t have Dante/Magneto worthy mix up game he should be fine IMO. If his level one grab titty squeeze blows up Phoenix…OH WELL. LOL.

**44:39 – Dr. Strange: ***Was originally extremely hype for Dr.Strange but things have now changed after hearing and seeing more about him. He seems like another one of those “MODOK, FELICIA, FIREBRAND” characters. Skisonic quickly quipped that he looks rather easy to play. Viscant said his reasoning is he looks too setup based like Frank West to be a serious character. Looks incredibly free otherwise. Doesn’t like how tall his hit box is and feels he will be more susceptible to mix ups for this. Skisonic says “he’s so regal”. Feels Phoenix players will try him out but will not like the execution behind him and drop him. Keits goes into how his mystic sword specials act as his poking tools and have good durability. *

EXTRA DEVILJIN’s NOTE: I feel that Dr.Strange will take a while to break down for tournament viability but has basic shit that all the top tier characters have like tracking projectile and assist left/right mix ups with teleports. His teleport almost has no recovery as it is and can set up full screen cross ups with his own projectiles or assists. That’s even before learning how to use his grapes. Will also be an anti zone character with a level 1 super that shoots out an instant full screen beam to counter projectiles of any kind (including assist based projectiles). Another level 1 super that instantly hits the opponent no matter where they are on the screen. Other zoning characters IMO will have a really hard time with him because Trish or Storm can’t just run up to the top of the screen and throw shit since he has Dante teleport and instant tracking super to punish such antics.

**47:15 – Wolverine’s changes: **Feels Wolverine’s changes are very significant. Wolverine’s issue was that he was a very one dimensional character that just happened to have extremely easy ways to get his one dimension to work in fights. Now that his easy ways to get into that one dimension (invincible berserker slash) have been nerfed it’s a big deal now. Says even J.Wong stopped using raw berserker slashes except in rare situations even in Vanilla. Which means it will be absolutely imperative to have good assists covering his berserker slash at all times. Feels Wolverine will end up being a more intelligent character where he will have to move in past the zone to get into his comfort zone Likes the swiss cheese “nerf” which will kinda force him into an execution based character. j.L nerf will nerf his double overhead game also. Feels that he wasn’t over nerfed and will still be strong.

**52:35 – Wesker: ***Feels that Wesker was balanced well enough and wasn’t over nerfed. Corrected those that said he was “buffed”. Says his multiple buffs are rather limited in actual application and his few nerfs are much bigger deals. Early on Wesker seemed to only really lose to Phoenix and Wolverine. Later on learned Wesker also loses to Trish, She Hulk, Zero, Spider Man, Ammy, MODOK etc. Says Spider Man specifically beats Wesker in air to air normals and/or would just air tech. *

*Wesker is starting to show cracks in general. *Says his best tool overall standing gun

*shot/samurai edge got nerfed. Wesker players have already found that bad matchups have forced them to rely more on *
*strong long ranged assists like Akuma to make up for matchups where gun shot teleport doesn’t run matches. Moves *

*like Wesker’s tiger uppercut/counter have shitty hit boxes that doesn’t work well against moves like Zero’s j.H. Jaguar *

*dash/kick is also bad and never used for a reason. Skisonic wonders why his moves are named after Adon and Sagat. *

  • Viscant says his moves are more so named after kung fun moves due to using open palm attacks. Says increased *

*inincibility frames on a counter super is a nerf since it will have things pass through him instead of countering. *

*Feels **counter super nerf will make it so even slower normals can whiff against the super and then he’s just left to die. *

*Says having 1 million health is important to Wesker since the gun nerf makes it so he will be more of a character that’s *

*only strong and can win matches from close range and reliant on assists to do so. Meaning he will just get hit *

*sometimes inevitably unlike a lower health character that can protect themselves by putting hit boxes all over the screen *
while they’re attacking.

**63:00 – She-Hulk: *Kinda more just stuff that was already explained earlier. ****Lot of stuff nerfed, not enough buffed in compensation. Feels she should either get an air dash or get repeatable c.L’s back. *

EXTRA DEVILJIN’s THOUGHTS: I feel that c.L’s that anti air into full combos is a dumb mechanic especially since all of my characters can only barely do it because of the short vertical height of their c.L’s. It’s a braindead mechanic. If they were to give her air dashes…whatever I’d rather them do that than bullshit c.L’s that convert into full combos on anti air or ground situations.

68:27 – Phoenix: Feels she will be fine. If the game is meant to be a keepaway dominant game that is fine because she still dominates keepaway since they have to get in and snap to beat her.* Feels the change regular Phoenix will affect her a bit. The air dash/fireball nerf will help you kill regular Phoenix. The issue more so being is that the meter stealing tools put in the game won’t affect anybody who’s good at the game. Relates to how Nerd Josh was fighting his Phoenix in vanilla and snapped Phoenix in 4 times but couldn’t kill her. Which effectively made Wesker a 2 million to 2.5 million health character due to the constant red health recharges Wesker got. *

*Keits goes into how air x factor could limit her. Viscant feels she won’t have trouble with this since it will force the opponent to burn XF themselves. Feels it won’t do much but force people to learn how to use non XF Dark Phoenix. Dark Phoenix has real combos that aren’t as easy but can kill the entire cast and give her a net gain of 3 meters. *

Feels Dark Phoenix can only be made as a character that’s top tier or terrible. Almost as if Capcom is putting a character in the game that like Yun/Yang in SFIV was PURPOSELY INTENDED to be top tier. Viscant and Filipino Champ feel she will still be top tier either way. Viscant says he also likes how Phoenix works in that she turns fights vs. non Phoenix teams into a good vs. evil thing that stream monsters love to watch. They love seeing Phoenix die and that helps to give extra hype and popularity to the game through something that is more akin to watching a tv show or a movie.

EXTRA DEVILJIN’s THOUGHTS: I feel Viscant is generally not seeing the overall picture with the changes. The most powerful things against Phoenix were ALREADY DISCOVERED in Vanilla and are more strong than the nerfs they gave to Phoenix. They are just vastly underexplored in tournament play. X-23/Dante/Akuma is more or less a complete counter to Phoenix teams because it can kill Phoenix even if she has 5 meters. Same with any team that has Spider Man on it. I personally believe the air action nerf is a HUGE nerf to her getting snapped in and I don’t see her surviving more than one snap back now especially against characters with near broken left/right snap mix ups like Dante.

79:00 – Phoenix Wright: Very mixed results among everyone.* Skisonic outbursts quickly that he thinks he sucks. Keits thinks he’s the new Phoenix. Skisonic is not a fan of subsystem type of characters in a game like Marvel 3. Keits feels Maya will help mitigate such issues. Viscant feels it depends on how quickly he gets the evidence. Says Wright can call an assist, call Maya and by the time they both go away get all 3 evidences and go into trial mode. What people don’t also realize is that bad evidence are also solid projectiles. Keits says you can pick up bad evidence like food…eat it instead and get health power up. Keits feels he may be bad against rushdown but possibly be a nice counter against lame out. Viscant generally says if Trial and Turnabout modes are easy to get into, he’ll be good. If not then he’ll be bad. *

His “missile” dog assist is apparently a low hitting assist that is invincible the entire time. Basically juggernaut crush in an assist.

84:20 – Viscant’s advice for new competitors: Viscant says the first thing he does when he breaks apart a new game is figure out what the “problem is going to be”.* Says he will look at things that got nerfed like the air dash nerfs. Feels that Doom is the only character that isn’t really affected by the air dash nerf since his air dash is extremely fast (and got faster) and all of his keepaway got much better. Will look to see which characters counter Doom and then figure out which characters counter the characters that counter Doom and then go from there. Says he would do the same thing in MVC2 to figure out counters to Cable and counters to V Akuma in Alpha 3.*

90:18 – Visson~ho~ho’s last words
92:42 – Comments oui oui
109:05 – Closing out


#17

In regards to Modok, Viscant may or may not be mentioning a modok player named “Pigg”; he’s a phenomenally strong Modok online warrior, at the least, I’m not sure if he has a strong offline presence.


#18

Is this confirmed? Couldn’t Capcom just have a hurtbox during this hyper that when triggered goes right through Wesker’s model but triggers the counter? It’s possible that the hurtbox still wouldn’t show up during invuln startup frames (assuming the startup length is the same) but maybe there are addition invuln frame while the counter is active so that he can use it against a projectile assist that someone is using to cover them so the projectile ends up going through but non-fast, or fast with long active frame moves will still trigger it.


#19

Is his PSN PigNUTZZ or something like that?
I’ve met him twice online before and his MODOK is just phenomenal. I had no idea how ridiculously scary MODOK’s lockdown was until I played him. He probably also has the best Sentinel I’ve ever played.
First time I played him I got bodied 1-18, and I played him again just last week and the score was a lot more even at 8-11 or something like that.
I tried to add him both times, but his friends’ list is full. :frowning:


#20

Well that was more like what he assumed. The translation was kinda rough from the official Japanese so it’s hard to say for sure. I personally think it might have more to do with the time frame in which the invincibility kicks in.

The specific buff/nerf or whatever you wanna call it says that the invincible start up frames have been increased. Which if it’s as poorly translated as I think it means probably actually means that the 5 invincibility frames may have shifted so that they occur after the freeze starts instead of before. Right now Wesker is invincible for 5 frames before the super freeze…once the game freezes he will counter anything after that. The issue is that like something like Haggar’s pipe can hit him before the game freezes after inputting the motion so the pipe will pass through his body and then the game will freeze. When Wesker comes out of the freeze he doesn’t end up countering anything and then gets hurt badly.

If it’s like what I think it means then it basically means you can hit Wesker out of the counter before it actually freezes the game. Then possibly be invincible after the game freezes. Which would be weird and really screw up how the counter works.