ULTRA C.Viper Match-up Thread

Thanks, I guess I don’t have answers with Viper for simple online tactics, like the DP4lyfe guy…mash dp beats FFF punish, also jump all the time guy doesn’t really have to fear crappy H thunder knuckle damage, T Hawk flying stuff is surprisingly very hard for Viper to punish consistently… where some of the cast just press one button.

I really appreciate the support, though. I plan on mastering Viper eventually. I’m just so frustrated right now I don’t know how I’m losing to the people I’m losing to since I know they aren’t necessarily better players than me.

i dunno. I just lost bad to an Adon that I recently bodied with Guile. I might drop Viper. This is humiliating. I have no real answer to most moves in the cast. How the fuck do you win with a character that doesn’t have an answer to normals/moves that most of the cast can easily punish or pressure afterwards?

I can’t even fucking beat T.Hawk.

I seriously feel like the Hilter from the Hilter rant videos. Like I’m a victim of some sort of Viper hype train and I’m losing to flowchart Kens even though I can do her execution heavy stuff that is supposed to balance her.

Record some matches and post them here so we can see what’s happening

It only beats it if you drop it, or if you have the wrong timing.
Although I got to agree the punish timing is stupid for a jab shoryuken. Too soon and he’s airborne, too late and you get a dragon punch in your throat. If I’m not mistaken, this is a 10f window. HP startup is 8f, so it’s far from being impossible. Use the dummy in training mode and practice your punish at different ranges.

Fierce Tk trades like a LOT and does crappy damage alone. But you can follow up, even if it trades. You can dash and ultra/TK, or burning kick depending on the kind of trade. Just be careful when you’re low on life cause the trade can end you. Set the dummy to jump attack you, and try to find the best solutions at different ranges.

I haven’t check his frame data for Ultra, but if it hasn’t changed, all versions of his condor dive are punishable on block. Take a look at floor’s specific punishes video.

I don’t think your execution is the problem. Viper is a very different character, and switching back and forth to/from Guile might confuse you. The game plan, range and automatisms are really different, and maybe you’re trying to apply Guile’s on Viper. As Jedah said, some videos of your matches could help us telling you what’s wrong. :slight_smile:

Thanks for all the help. I meant to upload some matches ( I have a bunch up but they are waaaay old) but I put my AE disc in a different 360 tonight and since then it hasn’t been the same. My AE disc doesn’t play on that Xbox or my own anymore…and it won’t let me install it bc of disc read error. I think the other 360 killed my disc. In the meantime, I’m waiting on another AE disc to play my DLC USF4 and upload replays.

Also, if anyone wants to send me a AE disc please message me. I assume some people wouldn’t mind parting with theirs since a lot of folks got the physical USF4 disc. I’ll pay for shipping.

Hey guys I’m currently playing USF4 on PC if anyone has it feel free to add me, Username: I hate Snafoo

I ended up playing Vanilla for a week and a half waiting for my new Ultra to arrive.
It was very good for my confidence and learning the jump all day/ dp for life / YOLO ultra shoto matchup and timing. I was going on 10-20 win streaks and getting messages with compliments on my Viper. I don’t think they ever seen FFF before.

When I returned to Ultra today I was still losing a lot with Viper (not with Guile) so again I feel frustrated. I think one thing I noticed on Vanilla is that they are super free to Viper’s vortex, where on Ultra people low profile, focus out, EX out well, etc… I don’t think I can vortex near as well on Ultra and it has nothing to do with the delayed wakeup.

As for matchups I know the Viper vs Viper matchup a lot better now as I made a Viper friend on Vanilla. Basically it was first knockdown wins. Also the start of the match was a guessing game as to the person was going to seismo or SJC burn kick. SJC Burn beat or traded with both options.

There were a lot more Sagats on Vanilla (obviously). I think if Viper can set up her zoning first she will control the okizeme and tear him up. It was harder for me when his zoning was set and I was locked down.

A lot of matchups I found myself making beginning of the match decisions that were important to control the space at the beginning. With Guile you can simply block since he doesn’t mind getting locked down.

EDIT: Another thing that helped me with the online tactics vs Viper MU is setting rounds to best 3 out of 5.

Just a test will record more of Akuma Viper with some notes

Hey Jedah,

Thanks for the video, but it’s set as private. Could you make it public ? :slight_smile:

My bad that’s why testing is good hahaha ill set it to public thanks

Its now public thanks again

Neo, I think you’re doing pretty darn well so far and that you definitely need to do a c viper write up. treat her as another matchup to learn. Now, some random tips!!:

You can combo into hp tk after her bnb seismo to hk bk midscreen, however you cannot properly land ultra on viper with a delayed midscreen burnkick as you can on most of the cast.

I recommend OS’ing fierce tk a lot in this matchup, since it beats most standard wake up options, just look out for ex burn kicks and fierce tk feint followed by block (some higher level play imo).

When we did had a short mirror set, krone was doing FFF into mp tk combos on me midscreen and tried to do safe jumps from there, though he wasn’t consistent in the timing yet. But I thought that was interesting since FFF to mp tk doesn’t even connect on the vast majority of the cast midscreen.

I recommend practicing full punishes on blocked fierce tks since they can cross you up if you block them crouching.

You can catch vipers that use lk bk over your head on wake up with st mk unless they do the bk meaty which is unlikely, since it’s usually done later to avoid getting dp’d.

Look out for vipers that don’t throw tech and use lk bk instead… They will NOT stop using them even if you catch their bk’s multiple times. (I’m so guilty of this…). Also, don’t forget that you can get a solid whiff punish on an lk bk if you backdashed one expecting some reversal.

Just focus attack dash through seismos and be ready jump back fierce when you get in viper’s “sweet spot” burn kick range.

You can also react to seismos (esp. meaty seismos) with ex seismo when you are in range.

Punish any and all mistakes hard, kill the bitch dead or she will come back on you all day. :stuck_out_tongue:

Any stuff for Elena and hitting her weird hurtbox?

I met some Elena’s online recently. M. Tk whiffs a lot and is punishable, but you’re supposed to feint it.
Her jumps-in are terrible and you can react quite easily. You just have to get used to the weird arc. On the ground, she’s a good pray for Viper. The seismo game works well, but be careful when she has meter since she can punish you from max distance.

She will get frustrated at some point and might try to use dashes or slides to get in. Ex-Seismo is a great tool to keep her away. I’m not sure if it’s a good idea, but I use HJ low BK from time to time (really quickly so Viper doesn’t move a lot) when she’s getting near. It also beats most of her options. Be careful to jumps-in, but if you’re not too predictable you will be able to recover and punish them. You can also mix with cross-up Burning kicks when she’s at the right distance.

Her other option is her weird wheelkick. It goes far and she stays airborne forever. She may try to use it to punish your seismos. I don’t know her frame data but it seems to be really slow on startup anyway, so I’m not sure if she can really react to them. If you bait it with a feint you will be able to welcome her with an ultra. She won’t do it again.

When she’s close, a well timed L. Bk will get you out of trouble since it will go over some of her moves. Be extremely careful to her low wheelkick. It hits overhead and leads to her most damaging combos. Luckily, it’s pretty slow, and even under pressure you should be able to TK her on reaction.

The ones I fought were not highly ranked (2k to 3kpp max) but I don’t think it’s a really hard matchup anyway.
I’d love to read what the others have to say though !

What should I be doing when under pressure I feel like im blocking forever! Also how exactly are you crossing her up? I try but they miss90 percent of theitine. What sould I be uusing footsie wise at each distance? I have no idea how to approach her and i dont see any mu vids :frowning:

You should take a look at these 2 videos:

ValMaster (Elena) - Will2Pac (Viper)
ValMaster (Elena) - Mr Crismson (Viper)

Valmaster is damn good with Elena (slightly random from time to time) and knows how Viper works.
Will2Pac and Crimson, on the other hand, are really legit Viper players but they obviously don’t know the matchup and end up losing patience. They screw up a lot of punishes too.

I don’t remember in which video it is, but it seems that when she’s pressuring you in the corner, if you can read a wheelkick, you can neutral jump and HK on the way down, which can lead to big combo or ultra. You can see they’re releasing their guard too soon when she does her breakdance kick (which I think is punishable on block). I do it too from time to time, just learn when to block and when to punish.
I also feel like Elena jumps WAY too much, and it seems some of these jumps could have been punished with a far standing HK (or nj HK). But it’s true she has a really deceiptive jumping arc.

You can take a look at the [unofficial frame data](Elena Frame data thread Most of her special move are punishable on block, and practically all of them are at least at -3. I will hit the training room tonight and let you know if I find something interesting.

Regarding her pressure, she can hit you from very far, and she’s rarely really close to you. Which means she can’t really go for a tick throw as easily as any other character would. The only think you have to be careful of is her wheelkick. She WILL do it. I’m usually just waiting for it or for an occasion to focus/backdash if I’m not in the corner.

I litteraly play this matchup really lame. I always stay outside of her sweep range, and zone, bait and punish. I don’t want her next to me.
I only mix her up when I get a hard knockdown and get the hell out of there when I’m done.

Any tips versus Gouken? At footsie range I have NO ANSWER AT ALL. And I lose all of my health. His jumping anti airs and great so I can’t just burn kick SJ my way in. How do I beat Gouken at footsie range? What button beats his sweep?

You don’t play footsies on his terms you sit there and wait for a moment to escape.

You shouldn’t be SJ BKing as a way to begin your offense against any character because that puts you in a terrible position to continue your rush down.

How to beat sweep; f.HK, EX Seismo, BK, instant BK.

So true. I need to stop doing that.

Dont sweat it I lose to horrible x players using x character all the time. What I learned is you must find out in lrss then 8 seconds what kind of player your facing

  1. the typical do moves regardless of outcome player.
  • start of match they jump back throw fireball rinse repeat
    -start match jumping towards you. Their offense is is literally jump hk in sweep. Wake up dp every single wake up period
    -random ultras
    -basicslly anything incredibly risky
  1. the guy who is kinda playing but thinks what he is doing is literally safe or good pressure but its not.
  • watch out for anytime your winning on offense or defense vs these guys because they will get mad and start doing desperate dashes jumps ultras etc.
  • they usually grab alot since they dont have good mixups in theor arsenal.
  1. the actual good player. Good spacing reads baits actually plays footsies instead of hopping around like a damn bunny or mashing potatoes on his stick. ( a player who plays seriously)

If you come across the player 1 style dont bother feinting just look for jumps and punish period whether its air to air or anything just punish em. They arent playing to flight they are off in their own world pressing buttons just finish them off asap but play defense til you open them up.

Style 2 is more relaxing you can feint andstuff but watch for anything typical for any mediocre player does witj any character like hondas who mash butt splash because they are scared to actually get hit and wanna random you out.