Ultra Street Fighter 4 | General Lounge

welcome to my world 2 years ago. was on match point to get out in losers too and failed cause Lucky D is a good coach.

Don’t know if it’s been posted before, but this blog is doing english translations of (some of) the TOPANGA TV casual streams that Mago, Tokido, Bonchan, Momochi, etc do occasionally

Wake up dp, learn from Kazunoko, you do it against him. Kappa

Some games just run like that, I think it might have been the red bull ( not sure) where Bonchan played Ryu against Daigo and won by basically jumping over fireballs into combo.

It’s rare that you get a match where opponents respect each other so much they play perfectly. That’s why momochi vs Daigo was probably one of the best matches in memory.

Capcom has no plans for another USF4 patch at the moment. Possibly after Capcom Cup but it sounds unlikely.

In summation:
“There are these characters that rarely showed up before in top 8s before but that we gave obvious and significant meaningful buffs to and now they are having success! Obviously the shit buffs + nerfs we gave some of the other chars must have worked out just as well. This top player who has always had success and known to pick strong characters is now having success with one of our more buffed characters. So how do we improve on perfection? Character specialists are getting further than they’ve gotten and I’ve obviously not noticed a much larger increase in the number of people picking 1 or more alts up that used to be character specialists. This speaks volumes about Capcom’s balance”

Seriously though, he must have blinders on. Of course as long as I’ve followed the FGC Combofiend has been kind of like that even before he went on to be a Capcom rep who wants to see the best in everything they do.

I’ve got an idea on how they could tweak the game:

How about fixing some of the more egregious errors found in here? Or at least the simple to fix ones. At bare minimum they should remove the focus armor cancel stuff that Elena/Hugo/Rufus have.

Anyone knows how much is going to be the prize money for evo ?
How much will make the winner?

SFV is coming out next year. Do you honestly think they’re gonna give a shit about IV when they’ve got a new flagship fighter coming out that’s sure to replace it as the main event in most majors (and of course, the Capcom Pro Tour) in less than a year? With V seemingly catching the attention (in a positive way) of players who dropped out of IV due to all of the BS it did (invul backdashes, too many combos from lights, low damage, focus attacks, etc.), unless Capcom somehow forgets all the lessons from SFxT and actually sabotages the game the same way they did that one, V is looking to pretty much replace IV once it comes out.

SFV has people bashing SFIV for all the wrong reasons.

I made this post in response to d3v in the SFV section, but it’s better suited here:

Since Vanilla they have sistematically neutered damage on heavy attacks, but those are hurt by focus attack more than anything. However damage in combos, punishes and with meter is generally fine (though since this game has 40+ characters there are obviously outliers, like blanka or folks that need 1 frame links on their hit confirms for no reason).

I watch alpha 3 matches and 3rd strike and damage there’s seems much lower than SF4 (except for urien) (though i’ve said multiple times I got into fighting games with SFIV though).

SFIV has a lot of bullshit that makes me want to throw my controller out the window and I haven’t played it in more than a month, but reading these low damage stuff or “ultras are free damage” from combofiend really blows my mind. Is this 2009 where wakeup ultra is a thing? Do I get this game completely backwards? Genuinely asking, I could be completely wrong.

SFIV had something like 80k+ viewers at CEO. EVO had 130k last year? And it’s a 6 year old game that was always on the rise both on number of entrants AND viewers. Bashing SFIV to promote SFV is smart, but you can’t ignore the stuff it did correctly. Matches like Valle vs Daigo and Momochi vs Daigo are still some of the most memorable stuff I’ve watched.

I think it’s more an issue of where the damage comes from, and how much of a chore it is to land it in SF4: you need to be up close, guessing right on their wake-up option(and crouchtech-timing) and have an OS ready just in case you guessed wrong. The reward for this is ~200 damage most of the time, provided you guessed correctly. It’s much easier for the attacker in 3S because the defensive options are riskier/less rewarding, and the attacker has more options. The damage feels higher for this reason already, because it’s so much easier to land.

But there is a damage differential as well. Pretty much entire upper half of the 3S cast can kill you by touching you three times if they have meter, which they will have a lot of the time. Damage on normals, specials and throws is comparable in both games, but the access to super allows people to deal huge damage far more often, and far more easily. In comparison, those 30-40% damage combos are far rarer, harder to land, and usually also a lot harder to execute, in SF4.

We don’t need to talk about SF2-damage, of course.

That being said, you’re completely right that SFA3 has really low damage outside of CCs, and that SF4 has had some really great sets (usually involving Daigo =V ) in its time.

This, damage just felt more honest in older games as well as in SFV.

This makes dealing with the damage differential in IV much more annoying than in something like 3S (where the differential is more on how easy it is to land damage with the top tiers than with most of the lower ranked characters). I recall during one of the pool matches in SEAM where my co-commentator (can’t remember if it was Zhi or Rchan) pointed out how the match was an uphill battle for Bison since he needed to land 5 combos whereas his opponents Evil Ryu only needed to do so twice.

Blanka falls into that camp too.

his close range hit confirm damage is much better now though.

bc of cr. mp buff?

See, this is exactly what I don’t agree with. USFIV has shifted the focus greatly out of the close up game.

The top tier in this game are the characters that can convert into huge damage from a poke. So e. ryu, yun (red focus), akuma, viper, etc (they also have above average mobility).

Then there are characters that are really good because they have unorthodox offense that goes around sfiv’s myriad of defensive options, like ken, ibuki, rolento, seth, etc.

The new characters do respectable damage. Decapre in particular has crazy abare, to the point you eat 4-5 move trying to chase her and you look at your health bar and its all gone.

But you’re comparing two extremes. Bison is probably the character with the worst damage in the entire game and e. ryu is e. ryu.

And even then, bison has had top 8 showings in majors. So again low damage is not the main issue in SFIV (or an issue at all).

This may be because I’m nowhere near as good at SF4 as other games, but I don’t feel that the really high damage situations from neutral show up as often as 3S. And I main Sakura, a character that can completely fuck people up if she lands a c.MK with two bars (in fact, I play her specifically BECAUSE she can do that). Getting to two bars does feel a lot harder than getting a super in 3S most of the time, though, but admittedly that might just be me being bad at the game.

Still, a lot of the damage does still come from the up-close game, and the up-close game is really tedious compared to other games. And pretty much every non-top tier does land their damage from up-close.
By the way, what characters can (realistically, in a regular match) do 300+ damage from landing a single poke? Genuinely asking. The ones I can think of right now are:

E.Ryu
Sakura
Abel
Twins
Akuma
Rose
C. Viper
Makoto
Cammy (she can FADC her Spiral Arrows right?)
Elena
Zangief

…which is indeed quite a bit of the cast. Thing is, with a couple of exceptions here (E.Ryu, Elena and Abel in particular), they land that poke into big damage pretty much only once per round, often only once per game. In 3S I’d often land that super twice per round.

With 40+ chars and a lot of them being very different it’s hard to make an exaustive list, that’s Eternal territory. But notable absences are dudley, gen, pr rog. You also have characters that get other type of reward off whiff punishes, like hakan, ibuki, fei, etc.

Look how varied the top 8 is for the last 5 majors or so. It’s always the same players and a lot of different characters, with different styles, and even different damage output. Even charge characters that have the worst conversion in the entire cast have representation. This may seem like I’m switching the topic of conversation, but how the fuck does bonchan place top 8 every single time when sagat’s damage is laughable?

SFIV has good characters with different playstyles (upclose offense, midrange poking/whiffing, zoning. The only really lacking archetype seems to be grapplers because of delayed wakeup, poor oki and low damage). It’s more diverse than 3S and what SFV has so far. Not really a fair point since we’re only 6 characters in, but judging by the damage from fireballs vs from landing combos, the current v skills and supers (only super that doesn’t shit on fireballs is bison’s, only v-skill that doesn’t punish you for zoning is chun’s) and capcom’s declared design intent of favoring up close offense, zoning doesn’t seem super hot.

3S has two characters that are relevant that convert pokes into super, ken and chun. And then you have install supers in Urien and Yun and that pretty much sums up the relevant characters in that game.

SFIV’s bullshit comes from the input leniency allowing for infinite option selects and how long knockdowns last. Speed up the game a bit, change input priority on throws and it becomes an extremely solid fighter.

*Mandatory never played 3S disclamer.

I’m not sure what the point is here, but…without infinite option selects you get left with infinite escapes, at least when it comes to IV. The latter of which seems higher in tiers of bullshit.

without infinite escapes there are less option selects and offense and defense come more down to good decision making and reactions and less tech fuckery and finger gymnastics.

Bison st.hk x2 has to be the most satisfying combo in the game. Especially when it lands a stun on Dudley, yeah I got dumb buttons too.

I think most of the characters in 3s are relevant, and the game is actually reasonably balanced outside the two extreme ends. I’ve been keeping track of every match played at my place between the Alaska players for the last six months and using that to look at matchups. And during that time period, Kuroda put out his 3s matchup chart which matched up with a lot of the stats I had (minus a couple outliers for some characters we don’t play). Based on those two things, my 3s tier list is something like:

A - Chun
B - Ken
C - everyone else
D - Remy Sean Twelve

I’ve also been paying attention to the pre-coop cup results. Coop cup is the biggest 3s event in Japan every year, and the Pre-coop cup is where people organize into teams of 5 of all the same character and then play out the tournament. So you can see Makoto 5 vs Chun 5 or Necro 5 vs Yun 5, etc. Watching those matches and seeing the results I don’t get the impression that 3s is a particularly unbalanced game, except that Chun played at the highest level (Rikimaru/MOV/Nuki) is really ridiculously good.

That being said, this all relies on players having matchup and game knowledge. IMO this is why 3s looked so unbalanced in America in the mid-2000s, America never understood the game that well or played it at a very high level.

this has been your 3s balance defense force post for the month