I def need work on that max range sweep focus stuff, although Gouken has arguably the best sweep in the game , focus dash in is equally as deadly in mirror. A couple tines also my flip throw juuuust missed crossup and safe landing once vs u2 and once vs ex tatsu, but made nicely for some conditioning…third time was a charm!
I only try to confirm sweep these days.
I do STILL press it out of bad habit sometimes, but good players tend to focus through it when they know it’s coming or gamble that it’s coming b/c of tendency.
This is kinda the grey area with Gouken b/c normal xx hado is slow and normal xx lp palm lacks range, and he lacks a 2 hit normal/special to keep them at bay.
So you kinda have to keep them off balance with sweep, traps, and dash away or dash up and grab.
It’s his biggest weak spot in the neutral game is right out side of his st. mk range he has to take a risk or make a good read of anything that he does.
So sweep is a good answer b/c of the push back and -3 but when some one catches on to it, it can get tough, especially those that can light confirm everything… just food for thought.
yup no doubt … im noticing proud really likes dash out and back in for throws. After playing Dek recently I started to pay more attention to implementing this recently in my footsies game…
sweep loses to goukens forward throws great range on startup…im like how can you throw a grounded sweeping Gouken, with a standing throw? lol
I actually have huge problems with characters who just walk forward. Once they’re outside footsie range I become scared to throw fireballs. I’ve been of the opinion for a while that the right combination of focus attacks and walking forward can really slaughter fireball characters (ex. Dictator).
Will upload some videos for insight very soon.
You’ll only loose your fear by going through that and learning proper spacing.
try far.lk chains, i.e. far.lk x2, as poking tool. pretty quick as chained, fairly safe, quick 80dmg, good hitbox, breaks reg. focus, sets up max range counter hit potential on hit (+3fr), enable spacing check for ch far.hk, good pushback and provides whiff punish situations on block when properly spaced and gouken remains standing…
its good, i love it…
Yeah, I do that as well.
I was just saying “weak spot” in terms of not being able to hit confirm much from that far or being able to throw out a 2 hit attack that discourages focusing.
Goukens light attacks are pretty good imo though, and if you chain lp all the way out it’s safe against everyone so that’s good too. It just seems that if you deviate from the plan you automatically take on a risk or you’re stuck in down back or retreat mode.
When ever I play as Oni or Ken for example they can forward mk and if it counter hits they can confirm from that range. Goukens st. mp can be buffered into hado or palm at that range for a whiff punish, you can sweep too but it often whiffs.
I don’t even think Gouken has bad options b/c the cancel to lp palm is really good during block strings, it’s just the range needs attention per more forward movement and added pushback to keep it -4 ish.
Honestly, I don’t even fear Ryu’s mid range game until he gets EX b/c he can just random EX Hado and he gains ground or holds his. Every fireball character on the game has that optionexcept Gouken shrugs. I don’t think that that would be an un-warranted buff to have press 3p/2p for EX hado and followed by lp/mp/hp for another forward hado (Seth/Dee Jay like) and if you press nothing you get what we have now.
But that’s just my weird way of seeing Gouken…
ill take you up on that mic witt, I need to leave sweep off my list for a while, and only confirm into it… I desperately am looking to incorporate cr mk as well also would be great to have cr mk confirm to sweep.
off Iam’s point of lpalm…I would like perhaps a little bit of startup invulnerablity to enable it to pass thru meaty fb’s on our wakeup, I mean with all the attention to palm changes we could have left hpalm as it was originally, and just buffed the damn new one with some invulnerablity.
I also would like more hado variety…I mean weve got an interesting moveset when it comes to hado, but seems just a little attention here would really keep folks grounded vs the old man , and a good ex option for a double hit fb for footsies and focus is seriously needed. I was thinking if they dont want to change it too much just make some minor changes for us.
I’m kinda sketchy about lp palm have invincibility b/c it would essentially be a dp that’s -4 on block.
ahhh i didnt see that…
Just my opinion, but whenever you are making a game or calling for “balance” the system and rules have to be defined first.
I don’t think the system and rules were determined first which makes this game extremely hard to balance.
Shoulda went for ultra on reaction to his revolver whiffing. Better than counting on a b.throw later.
Yeah I don’t like this either and for the same reason. I could list a million adjustments they could make to gouken but I just think one of his light close normals needs a little more hitstun and blockstun in addition to the c.MP changes I’ve discussed before. Gouken can’t get by with just having good fireballs.
Gouken’s fireballs aren’t that great anyway… the entire point of horizontal zoning with fireballs is to keep people from walking up to you. Jumping over fireballs is always a risk without a great read or reaction, but with Gouken it’s just a bad idea in general. So they made his weakness horizontal approaches (focus attacks and slides and such). It’s obvious given the relative suckiness of his backdash that they really wanted people to get through his zoning on the ground. It runs contrary to the very point of fireball zoning and is a pretty big hole in an otherwise okay zoning game.
That’s fine I guess, but in exchange (and given the fact that a good player is going to find their way to Gouken eventually) I think Gouken’s close range game should be a little stronger than it is. I don’t know exactly what I’d suggest, but there are a lot of ways they could adjust him. Longer range on cs.MK, higher advantage on hit and block one one of his light normals (c.LP or cs.LK), better mid range poke game (c.MP adjustments). There are a lot of choices. I’d even take a hit to his damage for a lot of these…
I don’t think Gouken needs more invincibility or options, he just needs the moves to do what they already do, but better.
It’s quite simple to actually fix him without breaking him… but either they are asking or taking advice from the wrong people.
If they just make cs.MK activate a little further out from Gouken I’d be very, very happy. lol
I think that’s a needed change as well, but I’d need more than that to be happy… starting with All his light attacks being +4 on hit.
having to rely on CH setups is silly anyways up close
??? Counter Hit?
What he means is (I thinkJ), gouken doesn’t have blockstrings except from s.MP. So a lot of your pressure on block has 4-5+ frame gaps.