UMvC3 hit sun deterioration changes (Thoughts and Opinions)

So people who have had the opportunity to play one of the early builds of UMvC3 have stated that people have been dropping their BnB’s because of the universal hit stun deterioration. Characters seem to pop out of things a lot earlier than before. So I was wondering if anyone who might have played a few games at Evo/Comicon or whatever their thoughts about the change? Whether it made the game feel different/better/worse or whatever. I am also wondering what are peoples general opinions on this change in general, do you think it will improve the game, make it worse, or not really that big of a deal?

I don’t know what to really think about it (obviously a big part is not having been able to play it first) but I can see pros and cons of both.

One pro I can think of is that windows will be tighter for things so timing will be much more important making things less autopilot after the initial hit. Like now you wont have 45 minutes after and OTG to continue something.

Another good thing I can think of is that since combos might have to be shorter, more emphasis will revolve arount mixups and resets. However, the way this game scales things a ton of damage is done right away making getting to the 500-600K threshold a piece of cake and anything additional a little tougher. So the most of the damage will still be in tact.

The con I can think of is that things are already pretty simple enough and now they will be even simpler. Not much incentive to go for more damage after a certain point and now their really wont be if your chances of dropping a combo for an additional 80K is much greater.

Thoughts and opinions from others?

**EDIT: **Anybody know how to change thread titles? I noticed that it says “hit sun” and not “hit stun” lol

I actually heard this in the Zero forums as well. Also heard that the Chris, Viper, and Dante forums were talking about it too.

I actually would like this change, it would resolve the problem of characters in this game doing “too much damage”. It would actually encourage people to invent harder team combos to emphasize on damage more, and will even push creative people who get easy 100% combos in vanilla starting with 0 meter. I would also like the return of more “important” resets than the ones in MVC3 which are mostly used to save a meter.

I don’t like it. It punishes execution players and rewards the easier characters. At much as some of you people want Marvel 2 resets back, that’s not about to happen. It just means a solid character that gets good damage off baby combos is going to be much better than one that needed higher end characters. Wolverine is still going to get 650k on ABC123 where a character like Dante might struggle to get that despite needing to work much harder. This just means there’s no reason to use an execution character.

Based on what people are saying, I don’t like it. But I need to see for myself. I honestly don’t believe this just yet.

I have yet to hear complaints about the “easier” characters dropping combos as a result of the HSD changes. And I doubt I ever will, because the “herp derp” combos just really don’t care too much about HSD because they’re inherently short. Honestly, I don’t think the HSD change will do anything other than making hit confirming into full BnBs harder (mostly characters whose BnBs aren’t "ABCD BBCD, call otg assist repeat, which I think is kinda sad.)

Also, Dante will only be struggling to get hitconfirms for a while (he has a million of them, so you’ll probably just have to use certain ones for certain character sizes), but his combos after that don’t seem like they’ve changed much. Afaik Acid rain is still soft knockdown so he still has acid rain loops, and he still has his wallbounce stinger and beehive groundbounce for his massive OTG extender (but…just use jetstream instead of the second beehive lol). Zero’s combo extensions all involve soft knockdown so he’s fine too. My team gets away without getting hit too bad :slight_smile: (X-23 will probably lose one loop out of her mirage feint loops :()

the problem with shorter otgs is some specials barely even meet the otg deadline like charged x23 otg, mystic ray, demon flip, etc. They would have to speed all of the specials that barely meet the time.

I fail to see the problems with the current hitstun system other than the ridiculous amount of time to OTG. As far as certain infinites the easiest way around those is to lower the minimum hitstun generated. C.viper’s infinite only works because H Thunder knuckle and Burn kick have high minimum hitstun. Chun Li’s 2 infinites from TACs are just mechanics abuse of a hotly debated system.

Dante is a bad example because the current Dante works basically by ignoring HSD through knockdowns/bounces and OTGs.

I think the main question is what is acceptable damage? If killing a character requires frame perfect, machine like execution, is that acceptable? What’s an acceptable amount for “easy” damage vs “difficult” damage?

The otg window is the same. It’s just that the HSD timer goes faster so comboing AFTER the OTG is harder.X23 can still do Ankle slice->rage trigger, but things like call assist->ankle slice->bnb would be in trouble (you probably won’t even get one mirage feint loop in Q_Q)

While I don’t really want to get into a debate about what “acceptable damage” is, I think that “difficult” damage should be at least 1.5x “easy” damage" for any given character. While I value things like footsies and resets, I also want there to be reward for straight up practicing your team.

I don’t think anything actually changed with the hit stun scaling mechanic. I think quite a few moves are now a frame or two slower on start up, and therefore don’t combo late into combos. The only Dante combos that didn’t seem to still work, were the charged shot loops, and Sky Dance combos. Easiest explanation isn’t a universal mechanic change, but Sky Dance having more start up. The fact that Round Harvest hard tag combos still worked flawlessly supports the idea that some individual moves changed, and not the system as a whole as well.

i actually think HSD should be kicked back by about 25% or 30% tops. honestly, the combos feel like they end a little early for a marvel game.
i also feel xfactor should not be a damage or speed boost, but a HSD eliminator during its activation, in addition to a slight damage reduction modifier. HSD prevents infinites (which this game would be littered with without it), but with xfactor on, the infinites would be possible (which is good, hear me out), but they’d require at least some level of skill to execute. this way, you’d have a legitimate tool to make 1 vs 3 or 2 vs 3 comebacks, but they’d demand the player possess character knowledge, setup, and at least a moderate level of execution to not drop their comeback combo. the duration of xfactor could remain similar to what we have now, considering you’re going to be spending more time comboing your opponent. this would also make it so it would run out before the last or current character gets killed off (xfactor’s problem is that it allows a losing player to outright win the game after virtually having the match lost, but it should allow a losing player to get back in the game, not win the game for them once its activated).
tweak the characters here and there, and we’d have a marvel 3v3 game where last character comebacks are viably possible, require some or alot of skill, and are in tune with marvels legacy of crazy, outrageous combos…not this glitched-Juggernaut-Powerup-power gem-Headcrush-kill-your-whole-family-tree-with-7-hits-damage garbage all across the board.

Shuma-gorath already has people pop out of his combos around the 350-400k range so i’m really looking forward to him having zero combos in Umvc3…

If this is true, it’s just reinforcing the “don’t bother with long combos” attitude.

They should’ve made a better damage scaling system if it was a problem with damage.
If it was a problem with being in long combos, well I guess this fixes that in a less than optimal way.

I heard Doom Loops are unafffected by this change so I’m good.

is this for real or people just jittery about the changes on their characters’ moves? either way, I don’t like it. the way HSD works right now is fine, but obviously cut down on window for OTG since that shit is ridiculous. it’s why many teams run wesker just for the fact that the game gives you forever to OTG and extend your B&B combo into super. if you make HSD more severe, that just punishes people like me who have good enough execution to play characters like magneto, viper, dante, etc. by shortening their meter building and damage. characters like those should reward players who actually take the time to learn combos other than basic ABCS BBCS shit.

I LOL’d to hard xD, But I agree…
So will the combos in the Mission Mode be all new to accommodate the HSD changes?

Well, the hitstun on Doom’s forward throw now seems to be nothing at all. After doing a corner forward throw ( it’s a hard knockdown now) I could do 4 corner loops reps of St.H st.S j.m F+H j.S. Off of backhrows, it’s just 3 loops. So I don’t know if this was on purpose or just overlooked. People are complaining about hitstun on their normal BnBs, but I could do all of doom’s stuff fine, and with his buffs, a lot more. :slight_smile:

I like the change. I wish they made hitstun scale even faster though, some of the combos in Mvc3 are just mind-numbingly boring and long. A combo doesn’t have to be long to be difficult.

I don’t even believe this yet. Tell me why Magneto was still doing hyper grav loops.

Because everyone is ignoring my post. The entire theory of HSD being faster was because Dante LMHS, MMH Killer Bee, HS, MMH Sky Dance didn’t work anymore. Simpler solution: Sky Dance has more start up. 99.9% of current combos worked in the SDCC build. That says nothing changed with the system mechanic, but with specific moves instead.

No one is ignoring your post, no one is saying what you are proposing is false. Either or could be true. A lot of people on the Viper, Chris, and Zero boards seems to think it has to do with HSD. You also make a valid theory.

I agree. I doubt this has anything to do with a universal scaling of hit stun. More like specific tones amongst certain characters like Dante who were normally able to get 30 years to hit confirm off a landed hammer. Most likely the HSD will be shorter on that specific move so when someone lands a raw hammer they don’t have 10 years to OTG off it and land a 500+k combo before DHC. Sometimes you might have to just turn the hammer into a mix up instead of getting free 2 second long hit confirms.

I can tell you first hand they basically still had 10 years to confirm off hammer. I also saw full 3 bars of Sougenmu worth of lightning loops after pretty much full screen Dark Death loops. Can’t say anything about Viper, no one used her when I was anywhere near the set ups, which was most of the first two days. Some people were having issues with Taskmaster multiple web swing air combos, and self relaunches, and were blaming it on HSD, and others were still hitting those combos just fine.

The reason I worded it as I did when I said people were ignoring me, was because of the responses following. Most of the posts in this thread look like the read the title and that was it.