UMVC3 Spider-Man - What's left to discover?

spider-man

#1

It has been quite a while since new stuff have been posted here. I think this would be a good place to consolidate tech which have been discovered (and will be discovered) to assist in Spidey’s gameplay.

So far, here’s what we’ve got:

kara-sting
fake TAC reset
missile corner cross-up
incoming UWT guard break DHC
MS + just frame assist hit DHC glitch (damage and HSD reset)
wall bounce web throw glitch
SJ air-to-ground confirm
SJ air throw midscreen confirm
downward TAC infinite

What other upper tier characters have that Spidey may be able to do:

reliable midscreen SJ air-to-ground confirm (not position/trajectory reliant)
reliable midscreen SJ air throw confirm (ideally, just throw towards the corner for easier pick up)
incoming solo guard break to air throw (with or without pushblock and hopefully can be confirmed on hit)
reliable TAC infinite

Other unexplored stuff:

new assist combo extender/reset tech
new neutral assist tech

I am not sure if I left anything out but just mention it just in case I did.

The tech posted above will only go so far as to help Spidey overall as he’s got some limitations when getting to open opponents up when they’re finally used to the matchup. Although I prefer not to discuss about Spidey’s neutral game as each player has their own playstyle, I think thread would also be a good place to discuss about his neutral as it will be one way to get the most out of the tech above.


#2

I’ve been trying to incorporate SJ> Air dash> attack into my game. Doing SJ > Airdash lets you get an attack out faster than normal jump> Airdash (don’t have the Brady guide with me right now, but I think it shaves like 3-5 frames off). SJ> Airdash M is probably Spidey’s fastest non-instant overhead and can even be chained for a double overhead… Too bad its hitbox is so small.


#3

Forward jM hits instantly on most medium sized characters, same with jL, I think. If you call an assist before you do the IOH, you can easily combo after. IAD jS is quite fast and can easily be confirmed off but the reach is quite short. It’s not as fast and far reaching as as Mag’s tri-jump jL but it can still open people up especially if backed up with assists. You can also zip cancel for a double overhead or mix it up by doing instant jS xx zip jM/H/S or jS xx zip xx air dash jM~M~H/S or jM~H/S or jH~S. Depending on your opponent’s height, you will get double/triple or whiffed overheads and you can also do the zip xx air dash after spider bite for more overheads; just make sure you add assists to counter pushblocks and to cover your approach.

As for instant sj air dash attacks, I haven’t tested if you can actually get a lower/faster air dash normal attack. If it does, it’s pretty good since it will be easy to do because you won’t have to input quick downward directions after the sj unlike Doom, IM, etc.


#4

Yeah I re-checked my guide, and it basically says that if you SJ, you can air dash 3 frames earlier than you would be able to if you normal jump.

It’s actually pretty hard to do consistently though, because the timing is tight- air dash too early and it won’t come out.

I do think it’s worth learning though because you don’t need the opponent to already be in block stun to get it to connect, unlike his instant over head jump L and M. For starters, it makes spider man’s inside mix up game a little stronger. let’s say you jump attack and get pushed blocked, and you already anticipated the push block, so you forward dash to counter the push block, and get right back in his face. Normally, there’s not much that spidey can do at this point to open up some one who knows the match up. That’s one situation where having a fast over head which doesn’t require an assist call would really pay off. Shaving 3 frames off his AD S makes it a lot harder to react to, and SJ instant AD m is definitely too fast to react too… Unfortunately it has even less range than SJ S and whiffs against a crouching morri.

I know it doesn’t seem like much lol, but yeah, spidey needs all the help he can get to optimise his unassisted mix ups.


#5

Even though Spidey’s best spot (imo) is point, I still think it would be helpful to find a way to combo off of a cross-over counter. The specific assist that I had in mind is Spider-sting. It seems that the spider-sting assist is the heavy version, which makes combo-ing off of it a little harder because it knocks the opponent up higher, but I have been trying to get a combo that involves an up-forward web zip after the spider-sting to connect. I can get something like that off of a light spider-sting, but I’ve been having trouble with the crossover counter. If we could get a combo that works on happy birthday’s, that would be even better.

EDIT: I got a combo that works, but its pretty hard and impractical for how much you would actually use spider-sting as a crossover counter. Here’s the combo: (block, :a1: + forward, spider-sting comes out) up-foward web zip, j.:m: j.:h: xx :h: web swing, air dash, j.:h: j.:s:, land, s.:m:, s.:h: xx :h: Spider-sting~bite, call missiles + cr.:h:, :s:, supejump, j.:m: j.:m: j.:h: j.:s:, airdash, zip forward-> j.:m: (to get on the other side), doom missiles hit, :h: web throw, :h: web throw, Maximum Spider.
This combo does 741,900 for 2 bars (including the CC). If you do the up-forward web zip too early then you might accidentally crossup of miss completely. If you do it too late then the combo will drop. I got it to work on Morrigan, Wesker, and Zero. I couldn’t get it very consistently though.

I know this isn’t exactly exclusive to spider-man, but I think it’s worth mentioning because it really helps spidey’s rush down and makes him more scary to deal with in the corner. I’m talking about zipping in/airdashing in with a jump normal, and then dashing in after the opponent push blocks to get an untechable grab. With different assists spidey can convert ground throws into combos. Off the top of my head, I think a lot of beam assists work except for disruptor, vajra works, Hidden Missiles of course works, Rising Fang assist works, probably log trap, and there are probably more. Obviously the timing is different for each though.

One last thing, I think TK L web swing is pretty good tech because it is a much faster overhead than doing an up foward web zip and I don’t think you need to be in the corner to use it. You would need a lock down assist though.


#6

I am sure that Mags can keep Spidey safe with shockwave DHC to MS as long as it’s not cornered, which Mags can easily work around. Mags can also combo off sting like with ryuuenjin and shadow blade. With that team (with missiles of course), you get a pretty decent THC, CC combo to sting (bite?), UWT guard break, strong start of the round option select with Mags and safe DHC to Spidey in exchange for weak TAC (unless you finish off with sting assist then TAC to Doom), Spidey with missiles neutral and a weak XF2 character.

As for tk swings, I was never a fan. It’s pretty decent for fuzzies though, also after landing from a jump attack (a bit hard to time).


#7

Shockwave -> MS is not safe. If the opponent chicken blocks and mashes pushblocks they won’t be pushed back with shockwaves but only block 2 or 3 of them. Spiderman then dies. If you want to run Mag/Doom then Spiderman/Mag/Doom is the best order you could run. Pretty much your entire gameplan would just be hit with spiderman -> piss easy infinite. Guard break second char use x-factor to guarantee kill in the corner with spiderman. Switch back to mag guard break and spend all meter killing 3rd char. By running mag on point you lose the ability to infinite off any random hit and you can’t guarantee 2 successive guard breaks due to meter issues.

As far as spidermans “tech” he honestly has enough to be an end game character at this point. He’s pretty much shaping up to be MvC2’s IM who can in brain dead fashion kill an entire team off a single hit. The problem is though like IM he can’t fucking hit anyone. If you guys honestly want to take this character farther you need to focus on finding reliable mid-screen mixups. Currently spidermans options for opening people up mid screen involve, spiderstings, baiting pushblocks, slow left/right overheads with jumping S, and running away/hoping to punish a mistake. His air to air is god like but players won’t keep jumping into your normals forever (they stopped running into mine).


#8

While I do think that having mags on point and spidey second isn’t that bad, I don’t think that is the best way to order the team. If you are going to have spidey second than you aren’t using him to his full potential and Spider-Man doesn’t do that much to help Magneto as an assist. Basically what I’m trying to say is that having magneto first means that you aren’t using an optimized spidey team since he isn’t in his best spot and you aren’t running an optimized Magneto team because Spider-man’s assists aren’t that great. Also, if magneto is in trouble then he can’t safely hard tag out or DHC, unless you take a risk and do Magnetic Tempest hoping the opponent jumps and then do UWT. I agree with what Brightside said about the team’s gameplan, just that you don’t need to TAC into magneto, you can use one of spidey’s various mixups and hard tag into magneto depending on how the combo ends.
@Raoh, I’ll be honest, I don’t think that tk web swings are that great or useful, and I haven’t actually used them in matches, but in theory I think they can be a powerful tool with a good lockdown assist like dark hole. What you said reminded me of something. A while ago Kookymanus told me about zipping down forward from the air, doing a jump normal (preferably j.:h:) and cancelling into :l: web swing before you hit the ground. Doing an air web swing like that would make it a overhead and keep some of Spider-man’s momentum if the opponent pushblocks the j.:h:. I think it’s a pretty decent option for trying to open up an opponent from midscreen or at least keep pressure on them tbh.


#9

I actually don’t recommend running Mag/Spi/Doom as I’m running Spi/Mag/Doom as my fun team, but just pointed out decent stuff about it (like if your Spidey’s bleeding). As for the safe tag, I know what you mean but if you do either MS or UWT DHC with some decent spacing(3/4-full) ater shockwave, which Mags can reasonably do, you can make it relatively safe. Just do the DHC without any delay (super, super). The Mag/Spi flow chart is doesn’t have much difference - you instead do XF first then, infinites on incoming second char which can be reset with fake TAC bait or double TACed. With Mags+missiles first, you get an easier chance to open people up too. In the end though, the idea is to open up some possible team composition.

As for midscreen stuff, I have to agree with Spidey’s difficulty to open people up. I think this can only be remedied with assists which can either push back (Vergil, Storm), do lockdown or negate pushblocks for fuzzies (Ammy, Tatsu). You can pick off mid screen zip jump overs (M/H) by calling assists as soon as you can press a normal. You get a cross up + assist call which can be confirmed off on hit and if your opponent mashes out, you can still pick off if your assist has plenty of active frames (plasma beam, black hole).


#10

Tk web swing is surprisingly good. People should use it more. Once you understand the motion its very strong against normal to larger characters. Also Spidey has solo guard breaks and reliable sj air throw and hit confirms. I also had a video with assists that helped Spideys ground throw game but I decided against it. Other tech I have or been trying to perfect/understand include unblockable ultimate web throws and a reliable way to combo (add to the combo counter) ultimate web throw for unscaled damage at the end of a combo which surprisingly resets hit stun as well.


#11

Sorry about the misunderstanding, your comment just made it seem like you prefer Mags/Spidey/Doom. Honestly, I never really played around with getting DHCing into spider-man with Mags so I just went off of what Brightside said. I always thought that UWT would be better for safely DHCing in because it doesn’t chase the opponent the way MS does.
I’m going to have to try doing s.:h: + disruptor xx up-forward web zip. EMD is really fast so I wouldn’t as vulnerable to happy birthday’s (unless the opponent X-factors). Although it doesn’t have as much hitstun as plasma beam, I might be able to hit them with the backwards hitbox of j.:h: and cancel into :l: spider-sting. If not, then at least it will put me in a better position where I can air grab them or dash under them for another crossup.

I don’t tk web swing would be that effective for Spidey/Mag/Doom though because there aren’t any lockdown assists and EMD has a tiny amount of blockstun compared to other beams. Actually, now that I think about it, I do catch the opponent just sitting there blocking the missiles when they are coming down.
Is the solo guard break that you are talking something along the lines of zipping down when they are incoming, making them block a j.:m:, jumping back up and grabbing them?


#12

That’s one variant of it yes. I use j:l: myself. As for to web swing you’re thinking to linear. You can just as easily command dash up then do it or just put them in stun then buffer it after the attack. Its not that slow really and its a lot faster than spider sting since you’re going right into the overhead. Only reason I assume its been overlooked this long is because many people don’t like practicing motions. Hell people still complain about about web swings motion change. If I had to put it against others is say its roughly the same speed of maybe Spencer’s if you fully control the motion. Keyword being roughly.


#13

Hmmm, I got some new stuff just now (not sure if anyone has done it though but it’s new to me at least). But it depends on the assist and the camera placing midscreen. It’s a bit hard to explain in detail and I want to sandbag it for a bit at least videowise. You can try it yourself with different beam assists, I just tested with triple arrow and plasma beam. Just do c.:l: c.:m: c.:h:+assist xx ground zip mid screen. It’s quite weird and you’ll see what I mean when you try it.

I put the dummy on midscreen, crouch with high and low blocking (I was using nova). With triple arrow, if the opponent is midscreen but near the camera corner, the result of the ground zip+j.:h:/:s: is a super low crossup overhead but if he’s a bit far from the camera corner, you get the annoying whiff (still working to confirm with arrows). With plasma beam however, it works a bit differently because of Doom’s longer start up compared to Hawkeye’s.

If you do the same (plasma beam assist and zip) near the camera end, you won’t get a crossup but you will get a super low overhead on the same side instead. If you don’t press anything after the zip, you land relatively quick and can do something like a tri-jump whiff low attack. If you press zip+j.:m:, you will get a quick overhead hit (not sure if crossup), cross the opponent up and the beam will be able to pick off from the jM hit to continue the combo.

Still experimenting on it from off the camera end and mid camera screen. Hope you understand what I posted.

Tldr:c.:l: c.:m: c.:h:+assist (beam assist) xx ground zip mid screen, end cam view vs mid cam view, mid sized chars (Nova atm)


#14

Problem with this sequence is that if you get push blocked before the standing zip, it messes the set up and spidey will end up way too high (geometry hates standing zip)

Xero: what strength do you recommend using for tk swing?


#15

You’re probably right, its just that I feel like I could be hit on the start up if I just dash up and do the tk web swing. Also, it seems like it would be safer and easier if you had a lockdown assist so you could take your time with it. Who knows, maybe tk web swing will kinda be like web throw combos, where they were overlooked at first because people thought it would be too hard to confirm into but they are actually very powerful and not that hard. I’ve been working on starting combos with web throws instead of web swings, but I still have the muscle memory of cr.LMH xx web swing so I still need to think about what I am doing.

Wait, just so I understand this, are you doing the jump normal so that you keep your momentum, or do you wait until Spider-man starts falling? The latter is the way I pictured it when you first mentioned it.

I know I’m not xero, but :l: web swing is probably the best strength. It’s the fastest and its the easiest to confirm off of (imo). I think since :l: web swing is the fastest, you can do tk :l: web swing lower than :m: and :h:. I’m not entirely sure if that last part is true though, I haven’t tested it out.


#16

I know light is fastest, but it’s significant harder to do then m and h plus you need to be point blank to hit with it.


#17

If they pushblock, they just nullify the crossup, but you’ll get a better angle for the overhead and assist hit confirm.


#18

I guess i need to wait for that video. I’ve been doing a similar set up for awhile (i actually like strange best for it), but getting pushed blocked for mine means that the zip bring spidey too high up, and the opponent has the time to chicken block whatever comes next.


#19

You have to take note of the camera view. To make it easier to understand, try it on training mode; the camera view end is when you do the setup as soon as the “fight” comes out. You and your opponent will be midscreen but the camera end is near his side. If you jump over the opponent first before doing the setup, that will be the camera mid view. You will get different results depending on the assists and camera views. It may not work as effectively with bolts since the first part of it can be crouched under. I have only tested with triple arrows and plasma since they belong to my mains.

The camera end view causes a corner effect but since you’re still midscreen, you get crossups depending on how your assist’s startup interacts with the camera view. This is one reason why I tested on both plasma and triple arrow. For plasma, Doom’s late entrance and nature of appearing behind the point char removes the cross up ability of j.:h:/:s:, unlike triple arrow which comes out relatively faster. The camera seems to force itself to capture all the characters in the screen which is why this setup can be done. Hope that clears up some confusion.


#20

For me at least, light really isn’t that much harder than m and h, if harder at all. I mean, if you can do it for m and h you can do the light version. Also, for overheads, I think the faster the better, even of you need to be a little bit closer. Plus, for medium at least, I didn’t check heavy, but I thought it medium slightly more difficult/weird to confirm off of.