Unblockable on Yun and Yang

gen
#1

so i figured this deserved its own thread.

i dont have video capturing equipment, so someone else will have to help out

anyhow,** foward throw, frame perfect lp roll, crane jump foward mk, **is an unblockable on both yun and yang. it has to be timed so that the mk is hitting on their first vulnerable frame

its not too dificult to time either given the input window for the roll after you come out of the throw animation

im testing their various escapes, and counter options to those escapes, and will update the first post as info comes in

EDIT-neither twin can duck. all dp setups ive tried whiff for a reaction punnish.you would need ultra to punnish the dps that take them across the screen

both twins can backdash which would lose to OS sweep or OS crane cr.fierce, or OS mantis ultra 1

yang can ex dash

fast foward to 34 seconds

[media=youtube]WUtgiFAgjTk[/media]

#2

<3 you.

#3

Or another forward grab (timed)

<3 you.

#4

As with most “unblockables” in SF4, it’s only unblockable if you hold left/right while waking up. If you wait until the last moment to press the direction (which you really should in SF4), this one’s actually very easy to block compared to some other SF4-unblockables.

That’s not to say it isn’t useful though, I just dislike the term unblockable being used for these kinds of crossups. I’m kinda surprised there isn’t a specific term for all these.

#5

hard to block-able. happy : )

also, i cant time it so that i can block it at all. which way do you hold? front or crossup?

and if someone was to wise up and start to block it, you could theoretically choose which side to hit on by walking forward or backward before the roll

#6

Think of it like using Gen’s neutral wake up. When you wait a tiny bit, it becomes a regular crossup.

#7

Man, this is pretty serious. I guess it makes sense for Gen to be the anti-twin character because he taught them everything they know. “Good form, kids. But, too bad I didn’t teach you how to block this!”

#8

Lol

#9

This is some pretty useful info. Does stuff like this work for other characters as well? If so we need to compile this data :slight_smile:

#10

gen has a few other unblockables.

sakura and oni- KKK forward throw, lp roll, crane jump rh

and viper- foward throw, walk forward, lk far oga towards opponents wall. you have to walk foward max range, or you can crane cr.rh walk back lk far oga toward her wall

#11

Just tried the Sakura one. Has an extremely goofy looking hitbox and is ambiguous as fuck, but the computer seems to always block it.

#12

Lovely work, not that I play Gen. It’s interesting that it works for both Yun and Yang. That likely means that their hit boxes are identical.

Also, to anyone nay-saying it; you have 1-frame to block an unblockable in the right direction. 1/60th of a second. Even if you mess up the set-up it’s still an extremely ambiguous jumpin which is safe from reversal options and you can option select from.

#13

yeah, the computer will block everything. the only reason these things work has something to do with choosing which way you block 2 frames or more before the attack makes contact.

the cpu blocks everything the frame before contact is made, so unblockables are impossible against it. you can do this too vs any unblockable setup if you wait to choose to block 1 frame out, in the same manner the cpu does. thats why yeb said he didnt like the term unblockable because technicaly you can block.

the way you have to test it is to make a recording of gen, and try to block it yourself in a traditional fashion with whatever character you want to test against

#14

Their hitboxes are similar, but they aren’t quite identical, sadly. In fact, this is one of the only tricks I’ve seen with Gen that works exactly the same against both twins.

The difficulty in blocking so-called unblockables varies a ton. I’ve seen some setups (with Akuma, I think) that are exactly as you describe, and they’re almost impossible to block even when you know about it. Then there are setups where the timing’s lenient enough that people can block it on accident, just because they hesitate as a crossup’s coming toward them. I honestly have more trouble getting the roll timing when I record this setup than I have blocking it.

I learned a very long time ago that the computer can’t be trusted in this game. It’s not the way the computer times it, the computer just cheats and literally blocks everything without regard for direction. It really has nothing to do with the way the game handles blocking when there are actual left/right inputs involved, so it can’t be used to explain these setups. It’s more a product of SF4’s weird hitboxes.

Imagine this: Holding backwards when an attack is close causes you to take a pre-block pose. This pose is actually shorter than the neutral standing height for some characters. Now imagine if walking forward makes your hurtbox taller. Holding forward causes you to grow and walk face-first into the jump in, while holding back causes you to shrink and allows the opponent to sail over you to land a crossup. I think it’s more subtle and complicated than that usually, but it’s closer to the way unblockables work in SF4, and neutral wake up animations usually break this trap. When the neutral wakeup DOESN’T work then it’s incredibly difficult to block, but the neutral wakeup trick works against this.

#15

Damnit, in my first day AE video I was so close to this!
I had forward throw > ©5mp > forward jump mk but because I did it on the dummy block was set to [ON]. :smiley:

Nice find. Now to make sure I’m getting frame perfect rolls off throw…

#16

best i can come up with for frame perfect rolls is watching gens hands go to neutral, and double tapping lp

#17

The sakura one you mention only works if sakura holds back… if she holds forward you just sail over her… am I mising something here?

#18

Like what Yeb said except her forward hitbox must me much smaller and with her fast walkspeed it’ll make it whiff.

#19

Would a hitbox be able to block this by holding both directions?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/magdefibrilator/danderav.gif

#20

youre timing it wrong. if you are perfect, she cant block or walk out from under you

also, it looks like hoigek is gonna end up with credit for the unblockable. he has a video

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUtgiFAgjTk

@ 34sec