Untapped potential?


#1

are characters like sim, cyke, morrigan ron, chun ron and other mentionable characters untapped as characters?


#2

Morrigan/Tron is pretty disgusting. Don’t block a first attack glitched low short and your first character’s out something like three quarters of their life on the one meter without even having to really try hard. (poke/poke/Tron/Soul Eraser HURTS) She has a decent triangle jump, and although her projectiles aren’t just awesome they still cover a lot of area and they’re faster than, say, shotos. Her AAA assist isn’t just awful either. However, I don’t know what in the world she does against Sentinel.

Rogue/Tron lacks the projectile that Morrigan has but Rogue has more reach, more angles she can attack from (one way airdash, sure, but she can jump, airdash, and then dive kick and combo out of the hit to a fair degree… not many characters have that combination, really), and stupidly simple air combos with Tron do like 50% damage for no meter. Big weakness: Doom rocks assist.

Preppy’s already shown us Mega Man/Tron. (“Don’t watch this…”)

Iceman/Tron? Speculating there.


#3

this sounds like a duplicate thread of a bunch others that have low tier stuff already.


#4

chun/tron is supposed to be nasty with her infinite setups, fast speed, and crossups from infinite, though I have yet to see Chun being played effectively in person or on video. I’ve expressed this a million times, but whatever. supposedly she’s godly in the hands of certain individuals (nobody at cf mind you). i’ll wait until the day I see a vid of her playing against top tier teams (that are being played well) then decide.

I think strider/tron has some untapped potential, esp once you get good with the teleport crossups in the middle of calling tron (due to the gap between the 2nd and 3rd ring of Tron). Strider is one of the few characters that can force a block on to an opponent, just by doing qcf+pp at the right time/distance. From there, you have a free teleport crossup attempt every single time. It’s not as good as Doom for sure (at this point), but I think it has a ton of potential.

morr/tron is pretty good I think. Morrigan just needs a better infinite and a safe way to dhc in. I gave her up for wolverine/tron.

I do want to hear about Sim and m. bison, though. Sim doesn’t seem to work too well only because his moves push you further away from your opponent, and sim operates better midscreen from your opponent, whereas tron requires you to be up close.

Pretty much the best char. to work with Tron seem to be those with air dashes, crossups, and work well up close. That explains why mag/storm/wolv/rogue are nasty with tron, and cyke not so much.


#5

strider ron is pretty good. I’ll have to admit it now after all the bashing I did on it. The teleport between the 2nd and 3rd ring is a 1 one timer. Meaning it will only work once vs anyone with a brain. its a predictable crossup with no option tree behind it. My reason for strider ron for being fairly is good is because of instant overhead+tron. Its actually useful as fuck in this situation beacuse all 3 rings combo and strider doesn’t have to do the qcf+lk. He can just do nupfwd+lk, tap lp.

if you need someone to tell you chun is nasty or you have to witness it you’re pretty retarded imo. All you have to see is that her mixup game when combined with tron is retarded and a mixup will lead to the infinite. The reason you don’t see her more or @ high level is that she’s pretty hard to play and a lot of the people who have the execution to play her don’t. Its a top tier heavy game and it will probably stay like that. outside of preppy and VDO, how many other players are willing to run low tiers for tournament play?

sim is just nasty. I wish I knew more about the character because I would pick him up. Simfiend is pretty good, sim\IM\sent. You should take advantage of the 0 frame super he has. Other shit like sim\morrigan ron is also nasty and probably something like sim\sent\cap would be pretty good too. Sim has nasty range on his pokes, unfly mode, can call his helper from the top of the screen, you can use his teleport as an AA because it has 0 start up, infinite, multiple fierce combo’s for hella life, 3\4 screen pokes and iirc, an inescapable guard break.

if we’re talking about uncommon characters that don’t get respect but are still capable of fighting tops, I’m not sure how well bison\iceman would fit into that picture. I think bison as a character is better than iceman. Bison has better\more projectiles, flight mode, unfly, teleport that he can attack down from like strider, decent super and as an assist, he can provide cover with that expanding ball crap. Bison actually has some rush down to him as to where iceman is more limited right there.

mentionable other characters: WM, cammy, marrow

to be effective with tron, you just need something abusable. With AD characters, you get to abuse mixups but there are some characters who get +frame rush down like cammy, marrow, jill, wolvies who can’t instant overhead but are able to create pressure because they’re all over you on the ground.


#6

strider tron has plenty of option trees in the position we’re talking about (end of orbs, up close next to person after air combo, etc.): 1) teleport to the same side instead of opposite side, 2) use c. short + tron, c. forward xx teleport(this timing alters when strider appears on the opposite side and pushes the opponent a little further away from tron) , 3) cancel s. fierce or c. rh at a different point into teleport so that all 3 rings are on the same side instead of 2 on one side and 1 on the other. All options are safe because Tron is covering Strider while you’re teleporting. They just have to block properly depending on when you’ve canceled into teleport (which is imperceivable btw), as a late teleport = all 3 rings on the same side. What makes the crossup nastier is that from time to time, depending on the sequence you used up until the cancel teleport (e.g., longer string = push the character further in the opposite direction), tron can push your opponent back in front of you even though you are teleporting from behind. And as you probably know since i know you know Strider pretty well, strider’s j. fierce hits at 6’o clock, almost 6:30 o clock, maybe even 7 o clock, meaning his j. fierce will hit on the opposite side Strider is on (kinda like Wolverine’s j/sj. rh… you know what I mean).

What this means is this: opponent blocks 2 rings on one side, you’ve teleported to the other side, 3rd ring hits, then your j. fierce on the way down pushes Strider’s sprite back to the side where the 2 first rings came from. That’s a crossup, followed by a 2nd crossup in a split second, and your sprite is ambiguous in location. It’s only once you land that you’ll see that Strider almost gets pushed back to his original side, and the only person who’ll know that you planned it that way is you. It’s VERY nasty and happens the most vs. fat characters like Sentinel/Doom. Then you air combo and end it with sj. fierce, land point blank, s. fierce/c. rh/(s. jab, s. strong) +tron xx teleport repeat.

I’ve done this as many as 3-4x in a row on to a sentinel and it gets really nasty , really quickly. Best thing is that if they block the crossup, you just do ground chain xx tiger xx orbs and you get to repeat the whole process AGAIN once the orbs are ending. And that’s the whole beauty of this crossup. Any time you end an air combo with sj. fierce or get your opponent to successfully block orbs on the ground, you have a free crossup opportunity, and if it gets blocked, you have another free orb activation which leads to ANOTHER free crossup opportunity. That’s the beauty… it’s very easy/common to setup.

If they get hit by the orbs, you can still make the same crossup: end the orb pattern with chain (like s. jab, s. strong) into c. fierce + tron, teleport , j. fierce. The opponent gets tagged in the back by the top of tron’s ring (again, dependent on when you’ve teleported and when you hit tron assist button) if they’re not blocking properly, and free launch into air combo , repeat.

I still like strider/doom better, pressure-wise… people crack under strider/doom like no other. they just play totally differently imo.

chun/tron seems to be theory fighting because the execution just isn’t practical (at least not at the damage levels she’s doing). perfect execution would make strider/doom #1 in this game, but it just doesn’t happen that way. I’m hoping to see otherwise.

I gotta try Sim/tron. Maybe he works well… cuz that 0 frame startup glitch is pretty nasty, too.

I think Mixup was saying he had some nasty stuff with bison/tron, but never ended up posting it. I’ll have to give bison a little more time.


#7

hell, Captain Commando and Psylocke are untapped characters simply bc there’s no need to put them at risk on the major teams.

for me the untapped roster is
**
O. Red:** an air dash character, he has full screen normals, his qcf+LK is a full-screen, he can play games with canceling his qcf K’s for feint pokes/assist punish or ghetto tri-jump at a different angle, and on top of that his coil drain move is always an option from almost every angle you can think of.
**
Bison: good priority iirc on his FP’s, fast dash recovery so he can work pluses/apply pressure with LP off of many assits. His head-stomps track the opponent so you can occasionally set up some pretty random full screen sneak attacks. Teleport is low quality in terms of suprise but it still gets the job done.
**
Felicia:
maybe i’m an idiot but i’m convinced that Felicia is pretty underrated. She’s in the class of character that can gain ground in the face of pushblock a la wolvie with both dp+p and qcf+p/k. Sand Wave is fast. QCB+KK super is good life.
**
WM:** gets better bc he can taunt cancel his normals to kill his stoopid recovery frames on cr.MK, cr.HK, s.HK, and s.HP. So now he can do some traditional ground strings and mixup with his flight cancels. His vertical missiles super sets up for some of the more random lower tier dhcs.

more later i have bags of low tier garbage


#8

intresting strider ron stuff


#9

As per the comment on chuns damage level she can 100% combo even a sent with a DHC. Also the ability to Juggle Kikoshu makes up for alot of the damage scaling. A reset into the ground inf is death for even char with alot of stamina.

Actually, Ground inf. is prolly the strongest damage inf I can think of outside of Gouki’s hurricane kick sent inf, or storms RH tri-jump inf. 2:1 ratio of Fierce hits to Light hits is pretty good.

As I said before the damage scaling on shom or upper shom can be either reset, or kikoshu xN > DHC. Which is alot.

For damage on sent I like Ground inf xN call drones on second hit once they reach the wall, one more rep, 100k’sxxHSF = done. Also easy mode resets with drones pause throw, or drones + throw on smaller char., if you dont have meter to burn.


#10

Strider’s j. fierce is hot. it really does hit at about 7 o’clock below/behind him, which is wack.
Well I guess several other character have hit sprites behind them, too (Tron, Wolverine).

anyway, i finally got perfect 360 sticks , so once I install them, maybe I can give chun another go at it. What you say makes sense, RisunoMeijin, about it being the most damaging infinite.

I’d like to see Bison/tron and charlie/tron and/or their tactics. I totally believe in charlie/tron being pretty devastating. There was a video of a really good charlie player in the Charlie threads… that tiger knee banana kick is sick.

Great thread idea Shoultzula. I really think you’re onto something because Tron assist really does push mid/upper tier into upper/top tier territory, making for some formidable teams outside of using the big 4. That might just be the last phase for MvC2.


#11

This is mixups concept that I stole :rofl:

There’s probably going to be 2 more phases. A low tier explosion where you have low tiers+tron placing high @ big tournies.

and then the last phase will probably be “hybrids” where you have low op ron to form combinations that are much more versatile. IE, chun\psy ron, morrigan\cyke ron, ruby\cable ron, marrow\sent ron etc… this will probably come into the picture once low tiers become semi dominant and tops start running away vs them. Then it will lead too lows combining with tops, hybrids, to counter that dumb shit. outside of the top 15\20, its really hard to stop run away storm with those characters. He hit j360 with some secret sauce @ FR and iirc, he 4-0 jzhou @ FR as well.

preppy has been using the hybrid style for a considerable amount of time and he can beat some pretty good players. iirc, hasn’t he ran through 3 god like msp’s in a row? it was like yipes\xxx\xxx can’t remember exactly… and he took out row @ a recent seattle tournament not to long ago.

There are some VERY skilled low tier players like VDO who would just be flat out nasty with a tron team. Watching VDO out play my boy mag x a few games was just simply amazing. Give vdo something that actually works properly and good god, maybe top 20 @ a national with something really nasty. Don’t get me wrong, his rogue\col\ken is disgusting to say the least but if you gave him something better imo, heads would roll.


#12

^^

i wholeheartedly agree with mixup’s concept that you stole :tup:

glad to know my Mag/Gief/Tron squad is on the cutting edge. :razz:

but seriously, that makes a whole lot of sense. certain low tiers just have the right priority and angles to shut down specific scenarios/angles that the gods need to work in order to play effectively. it only makes sense that smart players are going to figure out the low tier counter pick options as well.

plus, the ‘unknown factor’ is strong whenever its present. if your opponent never picks anything outside of top tier, then chances are they don’t have substantial enough inside knowledge to easily figure out you’re up to with your psy/cable/doom or spidey/morrigan/tron or what-have-you. this is where knowing the depth of the roster comes into play-- you can counter-pick to stop a scenario as specific as countering one particular tri-jump angle that is your last team’s biggest weakness.

i’ll stop before i slip too far down the theory lane, but maybe you can see where im at.


#13

i only played mixups top tiers, the only time i played anything else was with you shoult


#14

my bad homie, the sentence you quoted belonged in the next paragraph where I was talking about preppy. I was copying and pasting shit all over the place and I must of put it in the wrong spot.

The secret sauce was just a FS CH soccer ball setup. Shit was kinda dope actually. I think he followed up the ball because it was w\in his jump angle and used its priority to setup his CH string.

but if you didn’t play preppy either, thats my bad to lol


#15

sim is crazy

chun will be nice when somone puts the time into her.

look at gabes anakaris, all it takes is the right player and time.


#16

yea preppy fucking hurts with that combo jesus christ its discouraging and there are no meters used


#17

low point\ low AA ron is pretty good formula for a low tier team. Can’t really go wrong w\ it if you understand simple team chemistry. However, its really easy to lose vs run away storm unless you’re just super good @ judging decent angles\strats. I think thats the one test for low tiers. How they matchup vs run away storm. Magnus has to fight in close so he’ll come to you. I’m not saying low tiers own magnus for free but it does make the fight easier in some ways compared to storm.

I don’t see anything wrong with hybrid styles and they’re probably much strong than the usual low\low ron teams.

mag\morrigan ron
storm\morrigan ron

chun\sent\cyke
chun\storm\psy

ruby\storm\cyke
ruby\sent\cap

I really like the hybrid morrigan ron combinations. They’re probably worth playing seeing how it still has proper team chemistry and the ability to nuke.

imo, hybrids don’t necessarily need tron but some forms of hybrids are better w\it imo, like the morrigan based ones. I guess it boils down to a low and a very strong top duo behind it. sent\cap, sent\cyke, storm\cyke, storm\psy etc…


#18

Another breed of hybrid worth investigating i suppose would be 2 gods and a wacky low tier assist. Stuff like Anak coffin drops and Son-son monkeys can wreck havoc simply because they’re underused, largely unexpected and they create different sets of options for you.

Both of Iceman’s assists can be pretty fierce as well. The fact that he doesn’t take chip damage always makes me want to build an “if i can block i win” type team off of him/storm/sent.


#19

i was rockin mag/jug/cyke for a while, sometimes i would just start juggs, the team is pretty cheap, em disruptor and gene splice give juggs some nice gb setups


#20

Tron based teams are pretty much a totally different breed from other duos in the team, where 1) pixie maneuverability, 2) teleport maneuverability (Wolv, Strider, Bison), 3) Tron assist coverage, 4) instant overhead are of the highest importance. Sent/Tron is a rare exception, but that’s just because 1 Sent/Tron combo = close to dead character. The reason you need maneuverability/teleport is because Tron assist requires you to be up close to work into combos, so naturally, a character (pixie) that works well up close will benefit the most.

Right now there’s too many good characters with Tron, the way I see it.
The question is, who works better with Tron ? This the tier list I came up with from what I understand right now:

Tier S:Mag
King of rushdown, maneuverability, crossups, and damage. Tron compliments him perfectly.

Tier A: Storm, Sent, Chun, Strider
Here you have top tier characters who can pretty much handle fights on their own (Mag, Storm, and Sent). See teams like MST. Chun is starting to have some devastating infinite setups that rival IM’s setup, but without unfly and with her own benefits (qcf+pp dhc is invincible, she can provide as an AAA, she has the few-frame overhead combo). It’ll take some time to develop, but she has the opportunity. Strider/Tron works because Strider can force an opponent to block, which forces the Tron 50/50 mixup. Add that into ambiguous crossup setups with his teleport plus giving the ability for Strider to punish assists now, and you can see why Strider/Tron is high up.

**Tier B: Morrigan, Wolv (metal), Rogue, Cable, Spiderman **
Morrigan has some crazy damage combos based off of qcf+pp. Wolv has speedup + tron which is laughable at times because it’s so fast. Rogue/Tron definitely has potential as Vegita-x has shown many times… speedup-Rogue is the same as Strider/speedupWolv in that you force the opponent to block up-close, and from there you have free 50/50 mixups at your disposal. Cable also gets a mention here because this relieves Cable of needing much meter to kill off assists. That plus Cable covers Tron assist very well, and now c.short + tron = death with 2 levels instead of 3.

Tier C: Cammy
Cammy seems to work well with Tron, even if it’s something simple like j. short, j. forward + calling tron repeatedly. Once Tron hits, take them to the air for a heavy damage KBA combo. It’s too bad kba messes up so much.

??? Bison, Sim, Charlie, Psylocke, Cyc, Bonerine
Who knows where these guys fit.

I suppose it depends on where the character is on the team (Mag sucks IMO as a middle character for a Tron team), but generally speaking, how do you guys feel about the Tron tiers?