I’ll start up this thread and stick it so people see it. I’m going to compile the useful info we’ve got on these forums on this one and keep this here. This should’ve been doen before, I’ve really been meaning to but haven’t had the chance. apologies.
I’ll try to update this post with the things I found too.
If you guys want to help, feel free to pm me things thats that should be added.
I’ll clean this stuff up later too.
** Also this thread is for questions about the infinite. ** Not guaraunteeing I’ll answer them, but hopefully someone will.
The Run.Stop.Fierce (RSF), or the DaiPanch (Hard Punch) Loop, is El Fuerte’s combo of repeated linked Fierce Punches through utilization of quick cancels to Habanero Dash (qcf+P) and Sudden Stop (H.Dash -> LP).
This combo is the widely purported “Infinite”, but in practice is quite finite. The record at this point seems to be 9 linked Fierces. Supposed records of more have been claimed, but I have not witnessed it and there seems to be no video.
Simply put, the combo is [cl. HP xx qcf+P, LP]. This portion is repeated.
It is necessary to to pause between qcf+P and LP. This allows Fuerte time to run up into range of his opponent to perform the next close Fierce.
When extending to the next fierce, the LP to cl.HP must be performed very quickly. There is almost no recovery time on the stop and pressing the Fierce punch as early possible is desired.
Hence, with these things in mind, notation can more accurately be written:
cl.HP xx [qcf+P, LP~HP]xn
According to frame data, it seems that a perfectly timed Run-Stop is executed in 9 Frames. This seems to derive from a mandatory 6 frame start-up on the run before cancellation, then 3 frames of stopping time.
The rhythm of the combo is often described as a “horse gallop”. Described on the japanese wiki its “TANtataTANtataTANtataTAN”.
*The combo is almost impossible on some crouching chars, impossible on others, and can be done to less leniency on others. Keep this in mind.
*05/17/2009 First update in a while - cleaning up stun notes. General additions.
*04/02/2009 - Quick notes on character specifics I’ve been thinking.
As has been mentioned, the timing of the RSF performed vs a (standing) opponent feels a little different on different characters, aside from the issue of the altered hitstun animation. Once you settle into the combo, it feels like there’s is bit more leniency available while linking fierces.
Off the top of my head (based solely on how I feel up to this date, subject to change):
Slightly Easier vs charge chars (Rog, Vega, Blanka)
Slightly Easier vs Big guys (Sagat, Gief)
Slightly Harder vs shotos (Ryu, Ken)
Easiest for me right now - Honda.
This may be all in my head, but I figured I’d list it at this point in case anyone feels the same.
*04/01/2009 - For starters I’m just going to repost old posts, so read up.
New since the posts below *
Notice my guide to stunning 1000 stun characters is amongst the notes
I’ve found that the reason the loop is easier after a focus crumple is actually because certain characters have a special hitstun that they enter while being hit from a neutral state. This is especially noticieble with Ryu. The first hit of an open fierce on Ryu, he slides back and crouches down. This doesn’t happen if you can find a way to hit him from a non-neutral state - the easiest of which is within a combo. So the focus crumple is ideal. However, not all characters have this state so it’s necessarily a bother in all cases.
To do - list characters/ how this affects actual performance
Sinec the subject has been brought up, I’ll use this post to discuss who/when RSF doesn’t work against, and when it might change.
Here’s the key: Hitstun animations in SF4 vary, most (all?) character have an (a few?) alternate reeling sort of hit animation. What triggers this animation varies between character’s as well. I guess I’ll just start listing the weird ones I’ve found and discuss what I got.
Ryu - Neutral Standing - Ryu reels backwards and his head lowers. This makes RSF much harder, but not impossible. It feels like the timing on the 2nd fierce (while his head is down) changes from around 3-4 frame leniency to around 1-2 frame leniency. This probably varies. 6+fierces confirmed.
Ken - Neutral Standing - Similar to Ryu, but actually feels a tad bit more lenient. 9 fierces confirmed.
Rufus - Standing after Jump-in - This one sucks ass. Basically after any jump-in, depending on where Rufus is hit, he may enter reeling hitstun, or regular slumped forward hitstun. Doesn’t really seem to hinder punch loop from a forward jump-in. The reel makes him slide back a significant distance. As a result, after a cross-up fierce, this really seems to make it impossible to RSF. 1 fierce confirmed
Dan - Standing after cross-up - This is similar to Rufus. Dan slides backwards and reels down on pretty much any high hit. Doesn’t really after a forward jump-in, but after a cross-up, s.firece knocks him backwards pretty far. It makes RSF much harder, and seems to end it early because of distance. 4 fierces confirmed.
Chun - Any standing - Chun’s basic standing hitreel seems push her back a good few steps. This doesn’t make RSF impossible, but definitely seems to make it a bit harder to get more fierces towards the end, as the seems to slightly outdistance Fuertes max range run->stop link fierce. Basically it makes it a lot harder when you get to 4+ fierces. 6 fierces confirmed.
After testing these… it really makes me feel like this animation was created/tapered specifically to hinder El Fuertes only combo :bluu: :tdown:
That’s because your 2nd hit isn’t as deep as possible. It sounds weird but… as you said:
This is what’s tricky about it. The deeper your second hit, while still comboing, the longer your loop will be. At least in my experiences that’s how it works. The second fierce defines the rest of the combo for me.
When I first practiced it, I just used auto-block and practiced two in a row, as deep as possible on the second hit. I think I started with fierce, fierce slide. Then as I got the hang of that, moved up one fierce at a time. I was pulling off five into slide consistently last night, it was hot fire. I usually stop at four because 5+ is tricky especially if it’s online, for obvious reasons.
As for the do you need to slow the reps down question, that’s hard to answer. When I first got the RSF down, I could only do 3 maybe 4 because yeah, I was doing them too fast. So in a way you have to slow them down, I guess. If it helps at all, try practicing the timing of getting the fierces deep by looking at the training dummy/opponent’s recoiling animation. I’m in training mode with Ryu right now and basically the second fierce (non-corner) has to come out before his head has reached it’s furthest back point. But too soon and you haven’t gone far enough to reach his recoil. Shotos are kinda weird with the combo though.
All in all, though, if you can just get three (or even two) into slide down consistently, it will benefit you more. Knockdowns are really what you want to go for. Three or more gets their stun high enough to make them scared if they know what’s good for them, and a scared opponent is fun for Fuerte. :party:
I was coaching a buddy through it on player match last night, and one problem he was having, that I realized I had when I first tried - I wasn’t command dashing with lp. He was using hp and having problems with the timing as well as random hp-throw-move coming out. I’m sure it may vary but I really do think that using jab to run makes it the easiest. Dunno if anyone has been trying to use mp to like “piano” the buttons but the double tap isn’t that fast and IMO that will cause you to do it too fast and mess up. If your stop~fierce input is too fast, like third strike kara fast, one of the button presses won’t get registered correctly.
Those are the best tips I can get, practice the closest 2nd fierce you can get before you practice the whole loop. Makes everything easier.
Random tidbit: If you know you can’t get the run down and your next fierce is going to be (far) standing fierce, which you don’t really want, a far s.mp will combo. I used to substitute mp instead of fierce when I was pretty sure my fierce wouldn’t whiff… comes out faster, lets you keep the pressure on, won’t get interrupted by shoryuken spamming fools. Not the best tip but it helped me in my transitional phase when I couldn’t RSF. I’ve actually learned to like this normal a lot, this far s.mp. Crouching mp, now there’s a normal I can’t find a use for.
I have a very hard time doing it on the crappy SE fightstick…I rarely do more than 3 now as the buttons have totally deteriorated. They don’t fire when I press them. For example when I gallop jab to fierce, it will sometimes recognize it properly, sometimes it will register both at once, and sometimes it will even show on the button readout that I hit fierce first even though I clearly didn’t. That combined with my kick buttons only working 4/5 times is getting annoying. I’ve done so many whiffed fajita busters and gotten killed doing the combo recently due to this garbage stick that I’ve stopped doing it now. That and the thing will sometimes decide that it isn’t jumping anymore and I have to roll the stick around a few times to get it to start jumping again. I’ve gotten caught by more than one gief ultra cause my stick sometimes doesn’t jump.
I think right now I might actually be better off on the pad, till I can get some new parts. That’s sad.
My ex2’s LK stopped working properly about a week ago… then the LP. Sometimes it registers, other times it doesn’t. If I’m going through the menus the buttons seem to work okay, but when I get in a game it’s a crap shoot. Not having reliable throws hurts so much. I was thinking about modding it, but LOL I don’t have a fucking clue what to do.
I’ll have an SE tomorrow, so it’s good to know that the lifespan for that probably isn’t going to be very long.
FWIW my ex2 worked flawlessly for atleast 5 months with off an on use. Since mid Feb though, it has gotten substantial use and it seemed to get worse and worse within the last two weeks.
I use a controller with ken on the front of it, its stupid, i want an el fuerte controller…Anyways, i consistently get 2 hits and if im lucky 3, doesnt matter im not good enough yet to implement it in battles.
I am struggling fucking hard with the RSF.
My problem is that I keep doing the LP HP piano too fast.
I hardly screw up so that a c.HP or far HP comes out. So when I have the right timing between LP, HP, I get 3-4 fierces into a slide pretty consistently.
Been practising the RSF for 2 weeks, 1 hour a day.
I use the HP xx QCF+LP, LP, HP method.
Is the learning curve really that steep or should I try another method?
It’s all about rhythm. Once you “get it” then it becomes really really easy to get at least 4. You want to keep in mind how stunned the opponent is so that you don’t accidentally stun them with a 5-hit RSF…thats a real bummer cause then you can’t hurt the stunned person.