Urien VS Makoto?

urien

#1

Yeah, Makoto kicks my ass. I have no idea how to fight her. I can do the combos, whatever, but getting a chance is hard. When she gets in close, I can’t beat anything. When I’m getting up from knockdown, it’s REALLY bad. wake-up sacrifice headbutt only goes so far. :frowning:

Any tips? Tactics?


#2

After extensive assistance from Mutant and Dirty Cole, I’ve found that what really helped me a lot is standing fp because it stops her from just dashing in. Of course once she’s already in, it’s tough, but standing fp will keep her away from a while and she won’t be able to just blindly rush in. d+mk can be good too. Also, if you get hit by a dash punch, do a RH kneedrop to get outta there. Her uppercut won’t hit cuz you go straight up. Maybe you should try wakeup rh kneedrop on wakeup, but I’ve never tried that before.


#3

HAX > TRIX


#4

Just Whore St. MK and Cr.MK to poke her away from you when she rushes in.


#5

standing mk, low mk, jab headbutt, hk kneedrop to get away…etc…etc…etc…and pray


#6

Jab headbutt? Are you sure makoto is big enough for a headbutt to hit? I thinked it’ll go over her. Sure, you can always try to throw… but it’s not sure damage. Standing fierce is cool, and crouching mk is ok.

Otherwise… I wouldn’t use urien against makoto, I hate to suffer like that.


#7

the point isn’t about sure hitting makoto. even if it doesn’t hit, urien can still go over her and try to throw or something. if the throw is teched, both will bounced back. that’s why jab headbutt is used in most cases as urien’s wakeup move…the idea here is to GET AWAY from makoto…forgot about sure hitting mak…it serves as a “get away” move in most cases…forget about sure hitting an oppoent…you’re not fighting a dummy…


#8

Late to join the thread, but it’s pretty new in standards of people posting anyways.

Keep away is probably the best thing you can do like 300ZX said. I find well timed jumping RHs and MKs at full distance are useful. Headbutt after landing incase they jump in and incase they parry to dash in and c.lk x dash punch you.

As you play the game more you’ll realize there isn’t really any situation you can call “sure” damage unless they’re already in a combo and you want to take them for the full 6 count. For Urien, the sad truth is that most likely you won’t get that unblockable perfectly on there and they’ll parry it and throw your ass to safety.

Though the corner is our domain when we have the aegis so while we run away, probably the safest and most dangerous place, especially against an SA2 Makoto player is that we require the corner for our easiest aegis setups because i just can’t find an easy way to even hit Makoto with a c.HP even after parrying anything she throws out. Back into the corner, pick your opennings and throw her into that corner and start pounding aegises on her, but as soon as you’re done, back up again to the opposite corner. It’s true that we have to play Run away with a character that really sucks at it, but that’s why characters like Makoto and Ibuki give Urien players more hell then most any other character… (except maybe Chun Li).

Also when in doubt and you want to survive or just recollect yourself from an extremely aggressive Makoto that keeps putting you down. EX Aegis on wake up seems to work well for me. Slowing down the pace of the game consistently allows me to keep an upper hand, though that’s probably because I usually play better when I’m calm rather then when i’m hyped up or something.


#9

this thread been sorta dead but yeah yday i played sum kick ass makoto player he jus kept rapin me with them karakusa i though standing RH wud beat it, it did until she got close enough to grab before thr Rh came out, also wen i did a tackle into aegis an the tackle was parried he did a karakusa an wasnt hit by aegis i was like oh wtfff man, so i had to turtle even den super aggressive an no random dash punches even those tht were punished by unblockable were useless wen he got hes karakusa SA2 combos arghs he had like a 20 win streak what he hell can urien do against tht hoee!!!>.< an i thought akuma was bad till i played her


#10

ex aegis is like “anti parry” after a tackle


#11

Man u sure tht works coz wen i cancelled it was in the corner a lp aegis
an wtf beats a karakusa an hw do u face her with her ability to beat all ur normals an random tsurgis so no jumpin rh arghhhh, i even seen sum of emphys videos hes had trouble with makoto and so does RX stupid makoto


#12

It would help if you tried to type a little better. Not a major issue, but reading what you post takes a lot of effort what with the abbreviations and almost complete lack of proper punctuation. Minor distractions aside, knowing when to jump helps a lot. I haven’t had a lot of experience with Urien vs. Makoto, but his round house has really good range and might keep Makoto at bay. Other than that there are plenty to strategies above that should work. I would just try to avoid letting her get in close because almost all of her moves have high priority.


#13

I never play any Makotos, but here’s some data I collected in training mode a while back. Hopefully some of it may be of help to you:

Makoto’s Dash Punch

ON BLOCK
Unfortunately, a properly ranged dash punch cannot be punished with c.hp or throw when blocked. You can drum hpmk quickly as both are fast and far reaching enough to punish on block. If u hit hp too early u have a second chance to hit with mk.

ON HIT
When hit by a dash punch you’re forced to guess; either try to escape from being grabbed or guard against an attack. If you decide to guard, it’s a good strategy to block low then high. This will keep you safe against dash punch, c.lkxlp dash punch, and c.lkxEX Chop. If you try to escape from an anticipated karakusa, you can neurtal jump and punish it’s whiff with j.hk, s.mp (surprisingly s.mp does more damage than c.mk).
Interesting notes: If timed properly by the Makoto player, Urien cannot jump away from c.lkxlp dash punch. So the dash punch and the c.lkxlp dash punch serve the same purpose of preventing you from escaping, and at the same time make it difficult to guess parry since one attack is high and the other is low. What I discovered is that it’s actually possible to parry a dash punch on the way up of a neutral jump. It very, very hard in my opinion, but it is possible. So, whenever you do decide to jump away, you might as well option parry (right as you leave the ground). You may get lucky and hit the tight timing or maybe the Makoto player will be a little late with the dash punch. It’s a free roll, so you might as well use it.

Makoto Getting In:
I also have data on Makoto vs Urien matches of a bunch of Japanese Makoto players as well as TSC from Australia. My data shows that by far, the most common way for her to get in is via dash in throw (normal throw, not karakusa). So be weary of that range I guess (if u can help it hehe). Being stuck in Makoto’s maximum c.hp range seems to presents a lot of difficulty for Urien. Here she can c.hp, or dash punch, or dash in throw/whatever. Seems like a really bad spot to be in.

Hope that was sort of helpful. :tup: Hang in there, I know it’s a rough match. I played a pretty good Makoto regularly for 2-3 weeks and it always felt to me like she gets one free round in every match. I saw a lot of 100% stun. :sad:


#14

Thanks for the advice dudes an sorry for the way i structured my post i was really tired. But i found that the main problem was urien could only deal big damage in the corner but then one karakusa from makoto there would result in death so i try play turtle but how do you turtle against someone who out pioritises everything you do btw stand hard punch was useful and when ever i expected a karakusa standing hk was a godsend however the makoto some how karakusa’d a few of my stand rh i was wtf how is that possible.
Standing and crouching mk did help alot thoughstop dash-in but then random jump in tsurgis were annoyin aswelll matches like these are draining lol.
Anyone care to suggest how some uriens beast on makotos?


#15

Again, I don’t play Urien that much, but you can set up unblockables off of head butt. You just have to make sure to Aegis before Makoto lands. Also, a lot of Urien’s game is poking, so don’t expect big combos outside of Aegis set ups or anti-air fireball or cr. fierce. Just be patient with Urien.


#16

lol your so right thats the only big damage i got the rest was running away for dear life, even akuma is some what dealable compared to her i guess thats the price for playing urien:(


#17

Cmk is your best friend. Just try to keep the timing of spamming it hard for someone to guess parry and rape you. also keep in mind your corner unblockables have the chun li effect. tackle, lp sphere, tackle aegis, unblockable> repeat.

This match used to give me a lot of trouble, but playing a lot of makoto over time can teach you when to jump and when to wait. VS Makoto we have one major disadvantage and that is her cRH, which is a good zoning tool and keeps you in range of punishment. This appears to only be a real issue because one of the safest places to be is in the air. She seems to rely heavily on guesses, which actually helps when you notice patterns in someones game. Her tick throwing is a real problem and that wk kara is tough to see. Over all, figure out a way to be on the ground less when the space gets nasty for you and try to stay out of corners. Sometimes a good makoto will sFP dash punch cancel then dash karakusa or cWK to that ex chop.

Some of makoto’s attacks can be parry’d strictly on reaction with a lot of experience. IE, her chop is a free parry and a free set up. Makoto adds a random element to 3S that has always bugged me, because some of her attacks are ridiculous, like a empty super sometimes will get you if you try hunting range with early pokes, etc. There are tons of ways to play her dangerously it seems also.

This is one character that will force you to master your pokes.


#18

thank man ill keep that in mind btw i cmk is a god send in that match, but my main problem is how do u counter karakusa or makotos that abuse them which i would consider a good makoto as its free damage for her, so what would the key element be just keep her from getting in that range with pokes. so to beat her with urien you just need to poke the crap out her i guess.
Btw does any1 bother using lk tackle mp sphere hk tackle lk tackle or isit just me?


#19

Study your opponents Karakusa set-ups to avoid them.
And, this fight is about distance, I remember a tournament game where it was best of 3 matches; I won the first match by keeping at “mid-range”; and lost the two others because the Makoto player didn’t let me get away, especially in the 3rd match that lasted for something like 1 minute.
So just don’t let them approach and you’re safe.
Oh and be VIOLENT, abuse the st. HP; it calms them :woot:


#20

thanks whitecrowz ill keep that in mind btw i loved ur useful partition video i commented on there a few times about some partitions under my real name, back to the matter at hand all the matches i won were also either midscreen or a parry into unblockable its weird because makoto favours her own corner thats one the reason i think i kept losin the player either just karakusa’d me to death or lured me into hes corner stupid makoto.
also, does can any1 explain how you get the headbutt after lk tackle sphere lk tackle an end with a head butt i always end up getting a st mp into headbutt so it just whiffs i see emphy do this combo alot , just curious because the headbutt does more stun and damage than st hp just wondering a good damage alternative to the the combo i listed above in my previous post