Description: Marth has really good range, almost no lag on most of his moves (his aerials in particular), good damage, and can edge guard well. If Marth approaches with is F-air (possible other aerials as well I still need to test.) he will be able to F-smash (or any number of other things) before the opponent can grab, similar to fox?s aerials in melee and his shine. Marths F-air can cut right through Olimar F-B so most good Marths will simply knock away the pikmin with F-air and continue to approach. Marth can U-B out of shield to do great knock back. Marth?s D-B, if shielded will eat away at your shield and can often result in a shield break.
Counter: This match is extremely difficult, it is so far the hardest one I have come up against. You will not be able to F-B spam against a good marth since his F-air will just knock them away. Most Marth players will generally approach with aerials, the best thing to do is just shield and roll away. Often players will also approach with F-B. If you have enough shield you can try to shield grab if he finishes the combo, if not get out of the way. Really the only thing you can do against Marth is watch for what little lag he has and use said opportunity to get in what damage you can. Combos in this game are few and far between since all characters spend very little time tumbling, the trouble with Marth is that his moves come out so fast that combos against him don?t really exist (unless your opponent DI?s poorly), it also doesn?t help that his counter is better this time around. You are probably going to want to use option 1 to recovery. When the Marth player tries to edge guard keep in mind that you can air dodge multiple times. Air dodges and point dodges are crucial in this match, you?ll need to use them a lot but try not to be predictable. One thing that has helped me a lot in this match is Olimars N-air. It is a great move to use when Marth is in close. Lastly, Marth has little he can do when he is above you so use this time to get some damage in, just be aware of his counter. All in all this match can be done but you will need to go about it differently then when you play other characters.
[*]Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 8.5
Pikmin & Olimar:
Read the guide
This match is probably the most annoying match I have ever played. I need to play this match a few more times but from what I can tell this match is nothing but a test of patience. The factor, who is willing to F-smash repeatedly for the longest. F-B if you get the chance but since your opponent can too you should really only use it every once in a while unless you just have a lot better aim than your opponent. Grabbing can be used in this match but only if your close because if your near the end of Olimars grab range the other Olimar can simply F-smash you out of your grab. So given that, if you get grabbed, F-smash immediately and you will usually get ouf ot the grab. As far as edge guarding Olimar, as I am sure you know, all you need to do is edge-hog. This match can be very frustrating because sometimes it feels like it has little to do with skill but there definitely is a specific method to use in this match so make sure you know it. Oh and N-air is a really good move to use if you are in close.
Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: Annoying
Counter: Squirtle is in my opinion the hardest of the three. His speed makes it hard to out range him since he can get inside so quickly and his speed along with his size makes it near impossible to effectively F-B spam. Your grab is going to be very important in this match since it out ranges really anything that Squirtle can do on the ground. Squirtles D-air can go right through your U-air and U-smash (though sometimes it doesn’t. I’ll need to look into this.) so be aware of this. Squirtles is pretty light so if you can get a good smash in (D-smash will probably be your best bet) you can get some low percent kills on him. Squirtles U-tilt comes out very quickly and can combo well so be careful if your above him. If you are going to spam one move in particular vs. Squirtle let it be Olimars D-smash, it has good priority and sends the opponent at a close to horizontal angle. This match is pretty tough but if you pay attention you can win it. Keep in mind mind that your grab out ranges his, its important for this match.
Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 9
Counter: Ivysaur like Card said, is all about range, that being the case you have to go about playing Ivysaur a little differently then you would most other characters since you will be both be trying to out-range each other and depending on positioning one or the other will win out. Ivysaurs F-B can cut through pikmin but I still like to spam it if the situation allows. Ivysaur can be pretty slow so if you can get a combo going it will be hard for him to get out; he also has little he can do while above you since your U-air out ranges his D-air. Be careful when approaching Ivysaur since he has several attacks that severely out-range you F-air and B-air. Your grab will once again serve you well vs. Ivysaur but be careful Ivysaur has really good range (I know I keep harping this but its central to this match). Ivysaur, like Olimar, has a tether recovery so if you get on the edge while he is recovering you can edge hog him; however Ivysaur can knock you off with either aerials or his F-B, he wont always be able to knock you off but its something to remember. Ivysaurs N-B shoots seeds straight up in the air and if you try to come in from above you can easily get hit with it so you wont be able to approach that way, the best thing to do if you get above him is just to air dodge and get back into better positioning.
Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 7
Counter: Charizard is in my opinion the easiest of the three to deal with. You can easily combo him at low percents with F-throw -> U-smash -> U-air -> U-air, or any number of other combinations. Charizard is big, which means he is a great target for F-B spam; he can F-air to knock away pikmin but its not fast enough to keep away all of the thrown pikmin away. Charizard has some strong attacks so be careful not to get hit if you can help it since Olimar is light and he will, if hit with the right attack, fly far and be set up for easy edge-gaurding. Big characters in general are going to have problems vs. a well played Olimar and this match up is no exception.
Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 4
Counter: This can be an extremely difficult match vs. a good Rob player. Rob has the ability to really keep the pressure on Olimar and Rob will almost almost out prioritize Olimar in the air. If Rob approaches with his F-air he can keep off a D-smash before you can shield grab so either usually best to just roll away. Rob has little he can do when he is above you so punish him with your U-air and keep him juggled. To make the U-air especially potent try to keep red pikmin for this because a well timed D-air from Rob can stop all other types. Rob has great range on the ground with he F-tilt and F-smash so out ranging him is possible but difficult. Rob’s recovery is ridiculous and you should’nt try edge guarding him because if the player is good you will get punished every time. F-special spam is your friend this match and you will probably get most of your damage off it. Olimar’s most reliable kill move this match is his U-smash and since Rob has such a good recovery you will have to get him to a much higher percent to kill with much else. Try to hit him with an U-smash or an U-air off a platform to pull out the low % kill. This match isn’t a counter for Olimar but its certainly an even one and you wont be winning unless you keep your distance as often as possible.
Difficulty of match rated on a 10 point scale: 8
Zero Suit Samus:
I will update this sections once neutral and counterpick stages are decided upon.
[*]After doing numerous tests with Projectiled we found that Olimar’s grab will grab certain characters off the edge while they are clinging. Those characters are: Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Pikachu, Game&Watch, Luigi, Meta Knight, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Ice Climbers (if both are clinging it will pull off Popo), Ness, Olimar, Jigglypuff, and Lucas
[*]I do not have the capabilities to test this down to the pixel but given the tests I was able to do, there does not seem to be any discernible difference between the range of smashes with yellow pikmin vs. the range with red, blue, or white pikmin.
[*]All of Olimar’s moves suffer from diminishing returns including his throw hit and F-B (latch). The effect on the F-B is that the pikmin one, do less damage and two, stay latched for a shorter number of hits.
I just tested this again and as I said in the guide: If someone is edgehogging you cannot grapple the edge your U-B only knocks them off (if it hits them).
The terrain effects the probability of picking different colored pikmin.
Now I don’t wont to say that there is no difference what so ever but after picking hundreds of pikmin on different stages and tabulating the results, I found very little difference in the ratios of pikmin color. What little difference there was, I believe, is attributable to too small of a sample size. If there is any difference it is negligible.
OMG Charizard has fire and he?ll kill all your pikmin!
Yes Charizard has fire and yes only your red pikmin are immune to fire however Charizard can only attack your pikmin when they are not following you. If your pikmin are returning from attacking he can use a fire attack to kill them but if you are just standing there then he can only damage you.
You should try to keep your pikmin because flower pikmin are more effective (have better knockback, do more damage, live longer).
[*]This is actually a very common misconception. Myself and Projectiled did a number of tests and never saw any difference at all between the different types (i.e. leaf, bud, flower) of pikmin.
12. Gameplay Videos
I will link videos in this section, some with my own gameplay and some with other players.
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn) 7
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Pokemon Trainer (Projectiled) 3
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Pokemon Trainer (Projectiled) 2
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn) 6
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Fox (Karn)
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn) 5
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Fox (Karn) 2
If you are looking for videos to watch I recommend checking out the above videos first since the ones below where some of my first videos and the above show off better play quality.
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Diddy (Knorr)
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Snake (Knorr)
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Luigi (Lozr)
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Marth (Lozr)
Olimar (NC-Echo) & Snake (Knorr) vs. Gannon (59JS) vs. Link (TLOZ)
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn) 2/15/08
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn)2 2/15/08
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn)3 2/15/08
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Robot (Karn)4 2/15/08
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Pokemon Trainer (Projectiled) 2/13/08
Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Meta Knight (Osiyo) 2/13/08
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of the people listed below for their assistance in the completion of this guide. There is absolutely no way I could have gotten this all done without help and these people are a few of the key contributers.
Projectiled is one of my best friends and he has been a great help in writing this guide. He has helped on a number of different tests and he is one of my most consistent play partners
Assited in collecting data for section 4.
Assited in tests involving the difference between types (i.e. leaf, bud, flower) of pikmin.
Assited in tests involving which characters can be grabbed off the edge while clinging.
Wrote the Description sections for the characters Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard
Wrote the Description section for the character Kirby.
[*]Wrote the Description section for the character Rob.
Important Notice: [LIST]
I will be updating this post with a more complete guide very soon. Thank you for your patience.
I am still working on the layout.
2/12/08 8:30: updated the FAQ section of the guide.
2/13/08 5:11: updated sections 1, 2, 5, 6
added section 12
2/14/08 7:36: updated section 2
2/14/08 8:09: updated section 12
2/14/08 3:09: updated sections 1, 2, 3, 12
2/14/08 3:57: updated section 10
2/14/08 7:39: added table of contents
2/15/08 5:44: updated section 2, 10
2/15/08 8:11: updated section 12
2/15/08 4:38: added sections 4, 13
updated sections 1, 11
2/17/08 10:51: updated section 12
2/18/08 5:21: updated section 12
2/26/08 8:29: updated section 8
2/26/08 11:31: updated section 8
2/27/08 2:56: updated section 8
3/01/08 1:23: updated sections 8, 13
3/01/08 3:58: updated sections 1, 10, 11
3/01/08 5:13: updated section 7
3/02/08 11:05: updated sections 8, 13
3/08/08 5:58: updated sections 7, 8, 12
3/08/08 4:29: updated sections 8, 13
3/14/08 7:24: updated sections 8, 12