Guy’s only 1 place above Dan, its the equivalent of being a Twelve player in 3rd Strike, he’s hella fun but its a serious uphill battle which wouldnt be to bad if the Boxer & Honda matchups weren’t so flat out unfair.
I loved playing Deejay originally but he got a little boring after a while, mainly due to me never being able to land his U2 (is this still considered his best Ultra ?). Im not being a Tier Whore either, if I was id go with Guile (the less cool version of Deejay), an maybe Im better suited to Guy … but its hella frustrating.
No offense but did you miss the part were I said that “if I was a Tier whore id just pick Guile ?”, have you played much Guy ?, if so how’s those Boxer/Honda matchup’s fairing out for ya ?. It took years to realize Deejay was solid in ST because ST hadn’t been updated in years, SF4 was just over a year and SSF4 most likely will to.
Its not like playing Guy was a complete waste of time, Ill know the matchup better now, but unlike Viper in Vanilla I dont see Guy shooting up the ranks without a patch.
i was going to make a topic about this new tierlist but i don’t think i’ve heard of anybody switch TOO deejay lol only from
I want to talk about the tierlist tho.
DeeJay beats Chun 6-4 (4-6 on tierlist)
her jump is floaty so he can AA her easily
lk sobat beats cr. short
Both ultras are good against her
her fireball is S L O W
DeeJay vs Thawk 4.5 - 5.5 (4-6 on tierlist)
its hard to get him off once he’s in
its not that hard to zone him
blocked hawk dives get punished H A R D
DeeJay vs Ryu 6-4 (5-5) on tierlist
Ex Sobat beats badly spaced mk xx hadouken
Can’t punish mk sobat
Blocked sweep = sobat festival
U1 wins this matchup
DeeJay vs Cammy 5.5 - 4.5
IMO its hard for cammy to get in
you can keep her out fairly well
if she gets U1 don’t be afraid of the dash U1 if you use slow fireballs it will hit her head after the I-frames are done
dive kicks < up kicks
deejay has to watch out for the throw mix up
usually in this kind of situation i start flaming massively but im in a good mood. i main guy but i love me a bit of deejay now and again. they are both solid characters. IGNORE TIER LISTS. if you are running into problems it has nothing to do with the character you are playing
That’s a bit mean. Of course we want you back! The more people dancin’ the better the riddim… or something.
On a slightly more serious note, Dee Jay isn’t a different version of Guile, better or worse. He’s a totally different character. That sounds like a cliche, but when you really understand the spacing possibilities of EX sobats, slide sweeps, and short hops, you’ll see that a well played DJ will inevitably look very different from a well played Guile.
imho you’ll have many a satisfying match if you switch back to DJ.
I would like to thank everyone here for at least not saying DeeJay is better than Guile.
Let me make it clear that Dee Jay is on the same level as Guy. If you know how to beat Dee Jay, you will shut him down with 90% of the cast. I main Dee Jay, and he’s my best character. But don’t come here thinking he’s competitive without a patch, because he isn’t. Anyone who knows the Dee Jay match-up knows this.
It’s nice to know that Dee Jay can punish c.MK X Fireball. Too bad a Ryu that knows this will never do it because he doesn’t need to. He can out footsie you and out fireball you. The damage on a jump in or mix-up is always in his favor. T.Hawk will only condor dive on reaction to fireball. His fireball ain’t no boom and can be punished pretty easily when in range. Cammy doesn’t have a hard time getting in, because he ain’t Guile. A spin knuckle or ex drill goes through and puts her in. No worries about a counterpoke or being punished because of an uber fast projectile. I’ll admit the match-up is even though.
That tier list is whack, because I bet most of the people that made it don’t even play Dee Jay. Just like people saying Hakan sucks early on and put Makoto above Sakura and Dan. They don’t know these characters. They main a top tier and explore the low tiers. Ask a person who mains a low tier and seconds a top tier. They will tell you a real tier list.
For the record, the 5/5 match-up for Dee Jay and Gouken is utter garbage. Gouken owns Dee Jay at least 6 to 4 and 7 to 3 if the worst ultras are chosen.
I dont see how Dee jay has any advantage with these two:
Chun - A smart Chun will walk you down quickly. She is very hard to keep out when the player using her figures out her walk speed kills Dee jays and puts him on the back foot. She may have a floaty jump, but air to air she tends to win with priority and the fact she has more height on her jump gives her advantage. Most good Chuns won’t jump at a charging Dee Jay. Her pokes have more range and on the whole are faster (her c.hk punishes any none hit confirmed c.mk on block as a reversal for example). Her Ultra 1 punishes loads of stuff Dee Jay has on block and her Ultra 2 as people know is a piece of cake to land. Lastly you cannot use conventional mix ups from knockdowns on her once she has meter, which takes away a large part of Dee Jays offence. What does help is using his short hop to bait ex bird kick and then sweep for another knockdown. I agree with Japanese wiki tier list that it is 6-4 Chun.
Ryu - better fireball game, easier combos, much more versatile Ultra and Super and all of this without having to charge for any of it. Same health and pretty similar damage output too. Yes U1 and Ex sobat are good in the fight, but are very situation specific. With a life lead though Dee Jay becomes a brick wall in the match. Nevertheles this is 5.5-4.5 Ryu imo.
As for the comments on Gouken its 5-5 surely. The Dee Jay player needs to force the fight and get a lead though as Goukens fireball game is stronger. Goukens demon flip mix ups get killed though by up kicks and you can relly mess with Gouken players by using empty cross ups and short hop to bait the parry.
If you jump in on gouken (assuming you even can get in on the guy), it’s a 50/50 in his favor. If he guesses parry, you take big damage and lose positioning (again). If you guess right, what can you do? Dee Jay doesn’t exactly have high damage output. You can’t vortex because the whole point of vortex is that it is NOT a 50/50 mix-up, so it’s always in Dee Jay’s favor. If you guess wrong on the empty jump in, Gouken damage output is still MUCH higher.
I think the issue here is people actually think opponents will sit back and let Dee Jay play defense all day and keep a lead. Really? It’s not like he can do anything against someone who is crouching and in his face. Just standard duck jab/short is all you need to shut the guy down. You HAVE to go in and attack. This isn’t a choice. Dee Jay can’t turtle well once people figure out that they don’t have to jump to get distance on him. Just WALK/DASH. Everything he does except fireball is unsafe on defense, so just take the hit. That’s why he isn’t anywhere near as high as they say he is. People don’t know how to play against him. Just walk up to the guy. He’s not comboing off fireballs like guile. He’s not consistently anti-airing you even when not crouching. He’s not dealing big damage.
When he could crumple stun, he got hyped. When he got picked by Daigo, he got hyped. Now that this guy found out that Guy is even worse then Deejay we should help him out?
The only respect I have for new Deejays are ones who just got Super yesterday, or got bored of playing with Guile, Gouken, or Rose. Otherwise, I got nothing but a link and for you to use when you’ve got something.
I’m going to shake shit up and say that across the board I think Deejay is better then Guile. Seeing as his pressure game doesn’t make people fall asleep on wakeup and still be safe.
I’m also going to be even more clear when I tell you the tier list is whack on some of the matchups and anyone who think Deejay doesn’t have Guile beat by at the least 6-4 if not 7-3 is full of it.
Ex sobat goes through Sonic booms, crossup nullifies any fear from the flash kick. lk upkick stops most throw and
Deejay can win or at least hold his own in the fireball war, and gouken has a terrible backash so baiting the counter-swing or punishing the backdash/focus with s. mk makes it easy.
Dee Jay beating guile 7-3 is news to me. Last time I checked, you CANNOT EX sobat through booms because he recovers so fast that he can block it. If you mean point blank in the exact perfect timing (aka guessing) … sure… if he throws the boom. If not, you get punished hard. Match-ups aren’t about how boring it is. Guile can boom safely with no fear on wake-up. I don’t care if its boring. It’s safe. It works. That’s all that matters. Dee Jay has to jump in. That equals exciting but unsafe. If you want fun, pick Dee Jay against guile. If you want to win, pick the boring character. Guile definately has the advantage. Dee Jay can get a wake-up mix-up on him… IF he knocks him down. But guile is going to boom all day you will never get in.
I’m the only one who feels the Gouken match is stacked against Dee Jay. Either I’m wrong, or no one has played a good Gouken before.
And Dee Jay winning a fireball war against Gouken… not happening. He guesses right, you eat a big fist in your face. You guess right, you EX Sobat and MAYBE hit him if he’s close enough. Yours takes bar. His doesn’t. Yours does average damage. His hits like a tank. Yours is unsafe. His is at least safer than yours. His backdash may suck, but Dee Jay’s isn’t great either. Dee Jay can’t hold his own against any fireball character except Sakura and barely Dan, and you can quote me on that. Even Rose beats him with reflect.
My point stands. Dee Jay cannot turtle. His fireball is too weak. His anti-air normals are too inconsistent. He has to rush in which means he will get knocked down. And his lack of a good ground reversal is why he is weaker than what most people say.
Dogma your my favorite person in the DeeJay section. you have strong opinions and stick with it. i do not have respect for people who have never played deejay but switched after the tierlist.
your deejay membership has been declined.
of course he can turtle. lk up kick is one of the best non ex reversals in the game.
I could understand if you meant hard to zone because it is hard to zone with deejay because his recovery isn’t that good but can’t turtle? gtfo
I agree with Dogma. DeeJay destroys Guile onces he knocks him down.
We got to represent the beat man, I know you and vert have been around since launch day, and despite all the shit, haven’t gone anywhere.
I look forward to when you guys post something new, instead of the same old “he’s not as good as I thought” bullshit.
Guile isn’t as hard to get in on as you make it sound, especially cause he has to hold a charge just as long as you do.
Focus dash, slide, EX maxout (Which makes a huge difference) or a quick jumpin with mk at middle distance, godhand at short, and heavy punch at a longer distance, or just actually time out your EX sobat kicks well enough to get him with one swipe, or both.
It’s about being smart, and utilizing the vortex. My two favorite aspects of Deejay that can win any match but three (Akuma, Dhalsim, Seth.)
It’s hard for anyone to really get in on Guile, but it isn’t impossible. EX maxout helps you keep up or make up for where you lose in the fireball war, but your opinion seems like that of someone who has yet to learn how to slide under fireballs.
You knock him down, thats free damage cause slide keeps backdash in check, and crossup stops Flash kick entirely. Once you learn to bait a poor flash kick and punish it with a good MGU into some vortex options, Guile is easy.
I’m not saying Guile is bad, but he loses to Deejay. I prefer Deejay over Guile, and Charlie to Guile back in the Alpha days, and I stand by that.
I’m going with the former… cause Gouken doesn’t have enough tools to really scare Deejay if you play the counter game from long to mid dist.
Slide, ex, jump over it, same thing. Rose has better fireball tricks and game then alot of characters, reflect is legit. If your version of “holding his own” is standing there getting slapped in the face by fireballs then you’re relying on it too much. I don’t think there is any charge character that wins a fireball war outside of Guile, but its vastly superior to chuns, and setups everything else.
Gouken, has little if you can tech and play smart enough. A good Gouken will beat the hell out of you, but so can Gen. Deejay can shut down the demon flips with upkick, the throw with upkick, the shoryu punch with upkick, and the fireball with a sobat kick.
If you think Deejay is unsafe, play Gouken and miss a tatsu or a counter. Free ultra for anyone.
Deejay can turtle just fine, if you know the matchups. You don’t have the luxury of a headbutt, or a c. fierce, or something as amazing as that to turn it around. The best deejays I’ve ever seen play him 70% defensive/30% aggressive, then flip it around the other way on knockdown.
Maxout isn’t as good as sonic boom, nor a decent hadoken. I look at it as if I’m playing with Ken, and focus more on using throws and a few normals to score a knockdown and take the pace of the fight. The fb only being there to try to set the pace early and bait a poor decision, or to get them into a throwing routine to mix it up and again, score a knockdown.
But Deejay’s lack of reversals is astoundingly bad, but not as bad as you think. Considering wakeup upkick is enough to keep most characters either looking for wakeup options while crouching or not even bothering, it isn’t as hard as it looks to rebound from a knockdown. I mean, wakeup dp shuts down everything and hurts like shit when you use it on nothing. Same thing.
His AA normals aren’t that good, but cs.mp and fs.hp aren’t the worse. Otherwise, chance a jumpback heavy kick, punch, or godhand, or FA backdash, whatever works for you based on the character your fighting.
I just wish you’d wakeup and realize that the holes in Deejays game are compensated for by the fact that he has an easier time with alot of the cast (or at least an even one) has the weapons to go into any matchup, and can win against some of the few higher tiered characters (Chun, Ryu, Rufus)
You still get raped by Bison and Balrog, but that isn’t important. I’m tired of hearing about how bad he is, he isn’t a perfect character, but there isn’t that much lacking in his game.
Anyone who pretends that there is, is too busy dreaming about their high-tier main and don’t rough it out with someone who can still win. Deejay isn’t Vangief where he has the skill to win with everyone else, Deejay can force you to play his fight, try to trick him where he excels and still win.
This is ridiculous. I imagine a match-up where people just never jump on Dee Jay and just stay on the ground, making his up kick a high risk poke. Apperantly my imagination is running too far away from reality, because everybody thinks Dee Jay can turtle and I think he can’t turtle at all.
It’s your word, and your experience against others. Because I’ve been jumped on at all levels of play, and had to do the jumping myself at others.
Your claim that Deejay can’t turtle is wrong though, and this isn’t a situation where its my word against yours, this is a situation where you’re just being stupid or something because a good AA special, a firebal, and the constant need for downback kind of puts you in a good position to really hunker down and play lame. Especially if you can make the risk of eating a c.mk high enough to keep your opponent honest. It only takes a good few runs of the vortex to change the flow of the match.
I say Deejay is a character that can do everything, and specializes on wakeup pressure and keeping/changing he pace when needed. But he lacks good reversals, consistent AA, and normals. My logic as a Deejay player, nor my logic as a player in general is no infallible but I have no intention of admitting if I’m even slightly wrong, because all I’ve seen from your post is the obvious knowledge of his limitations, and just doing what you want to do poorly, or losing to someone who does it better then you.
I wouldn’t turtle a Ryu, I wouldn’t rush down a Dudley. I don’t know if that stands the same for you, but I know Deejay can makeup for the fact he can’t beat someone at there own game, by playing to their weaknesses better. I mean, unless you’re constantly getting raped by Bison or Balrog, perhaps you’re just missing out on some serious potential.
Don’t forget they got some of his matchups wrong, but his placement isn’t too far from the truth on either side of the argument (good or bad.) Playing Deejay isn’t like Vanilla guile where your just lacking.