USF4: Option Selects Thread

zangief

#1

Footsie Option Selects Pokes:
These option selects, o/s for short, make use of the game’s hit stop feature. The character’s movements pause for 10 frames to recognise contact, either blocked or hit. This increases the window to special cancel normal moves, and allows it to execute on contact of the poke. Option select pokes are done at a range, specifically used to counter an opponent’s poke, but not close enough to attack an idle or blocking opponent. At that counter poke range, if the opponent does not throw out a ranged attack, the poke will not make contact and the special will not execute. Spacing knowledge of the range of an opponent’s poke, where to stand, which of the four light attack option select pokes to use, as well as predicting your opponent is key.

Far LP xx LPGH:
Option on whiff: Far LP into rapid fire far LP or crouch LP
2 Hits = 150 damage (150 stun)
**Example Use: ** Whiff punish Sagat’s far HK, Adon’s far HK, Rose’s far HK
Stick Execution: Rapidly tap LP, LP and quickly wiggle F, DF, F
When the LP’s are pressed fast enough, the second LP chains into itself, faster than the input for the LPGH to execute. You can hold the second LP to prevent a LPGH from negative edge. On contact, the 10 frames of hitstop, gives enough time for the F, DF, F to register the LPGH command. The game then cancels the recovery of the first LP into LPGH, instead of getting a second rapid fire LP.

Far LP xx EXGH:
Option on whiff: Far LP into rapid fire far LP or crouch LP
2 Hits = 170 damage (200 stun)
**Example Use: ** Whiff punish Sagat’s far HK, Adon’s far HK, Rose’s far HK
Stick Execution: Rapidly tap LP, LP+MP and quickly wiggle F, DF, F
Pressing LP+MP rapidly after the first LP, causes a chained LP, standing or crouching, as the F, DF, F does not register fast enough even to execute a negative edge EXGH. Holding LP+MP will prevent this, but when done fast enough, it shouldn’t become an issue.


#2

Hi All.

Recently I reviewed Ultra David’s Option Select Guide on Youtube, from the original SF4. Credit to the great Zangief player. This got me thinking that I needed to incorporate more option selects in my game.

Sadly, knees or splash o/s into RBG doesn’t work. It was only wishful thinking on my part.

Not sure if this was mentioned in Ultra David’s Option Select Guide, but here goes:

  • Cross-up knees or splash o/s cr.lp (cr.hk or far cr.hk)

And this one I figured out:

  • Cross-up knees or Splash o/s KKK Lariat (move forward) into EXGH
  • I think the EX bar is worth it, as it sets up another reliable cross-up, if they quick recover - given now that Delayed Wake Up is happening.
    *Note: This would only work on the weaker back dashes. Only tried it on Ryu.

Please post all other options selects and/or character match-up specific option selects that you have discovered. Thanks.


#3

LP GH off of jump-ins is what I’ve been using as of today, except vs Sagat I’ve been using sweep since his back dash is terrible and it gives me the knock down.

Are there any characters where OSing U1 is the best option or is it too fast and/or they are too far away to use?

How is U2 as on OS?


#4

Not sure how the o/s with U1 would work. I can’t see how it could be done as a jump in option select. Could you explain?

And I don’t really think I could manage the input for the U2 o/s. Looks too strict for timing. Crazy perhaps. But I don’t know the mechanism.

Right now. I’m looking at cr.lp chained LPGH o/s. It looks doable, but trying to figure out the timing.


#5

For me, the timing of the 2nd lp is when I visually confirm that the first cr.lp is fully extended.


#6

In super, I believe you could OS U2 from j.HK. Really hard though and I don’t know if it still works. And you can OS U1 from a jump in. I would say it’s only useful on Abel if you see the player has a tendency to roll on wakeup.


#7

the cr. LP > cr. LP (OS LP GH)…

Is it D+LP > DF, D, DF+LP?

And the timing of the second LP needs to be delayed right, otherwise it’ll cancel into LP GH?


#8

DF+F+DF seems to work okay…or am I creating a bad habit somehow?


#9

I don’t think its to do with the timing. I think its to do with the second input containing another chainable AND cancellable LP.
This makes the option select LP much harder because cancelling has priority over chaining.

Hmmm. Let me try to break down the science of it.

cr.lp is [4-3-6] (startup-active-recovery frames)

it is chainable, if you press another cr.lp again in the 3 active frames, it will chain into itself, even if you don’t make contact.
similarly if you input LPGH, it will cancel the cr.lp in those active frames as well.

Hitstop/impact freeze is about 10 frames *Source: sonichurricane.com/?p=1043
You and the opponent both pause for about 10 frames on contact, hit or block
Thus allows the “window to cancel” moves to increase from 3 frames to at most 11 to 13 frames, on contact
This is the technology that allows o/s EXGH to work

Dominant Option: They back dash out

  • You want to “whiff link” the first cr.lp, with the next cr.lp + your option selected command (LPGH, EXGH, cr.HK, far cr.hk, far HK)
  • Essentially defaulting into your option selected command when the first cr.lp finishes its entire animation on whiff
  • Because the second cr.lp isn’t chained into itself, the option select comes out.
  • As impact freeze is 10 frames, you don’t have to link the second option immediately after the first
  • Depending on the setup, you have used 13 frames on the first cr.lk, and have 12 frames left to catch 25 frame back dashes.
  • You have to go meatier/earlier for faster back dashes

Sub Ordinate Option: They block or get hit

  • The first cr.lp undergoes impact freeze, which extends the cancellable/chainable window to 11-13 frames
  • If the second cr.lp falls within this 11-13 frames, it will chain into another cr.lp
  • Except when you try to option select the LPGH, you won’t get the chained cr.lp, you get LPGH on hit or block
  • This is not an issue with option selects involving cr.HK, because you can never cancel the second cr.lp into cr.hk, but you always get the chained cr.lp

Solutions?

  • somehow, work in an option select that involves the second attack being a chained cr.lk?
  • use MPGH in place of LPGH, although, it won’t be viable, unless their back dash has loads of air born frames, and you find a workable meaty setup
  • option select into EXGH, using MP+HP, and not LP. But then, you are 5 frames worse off - slower to come out.

This is the current problem: I don’t think a chained cr.lp xx LPGH o/s can work.


#10

Adding further info which will help with the discovery of the LPGH o/s against back dash and jump.

  • In training mode, it is possible.

  • Negative edge of the LPGH could assist in the chained cr.lp o/s, as it only triggers the special and not the chained cr.lp

  • Close LK has a special property, where it is cancellable even when chained from another light attack. Usually chained lights lose the property to cancel into specials if they are chained from. This is why we have to link the st.lk xx EXGH/LPGH

  • kara LK~LPGH, may be of use. Which utilizes the far LK property to cancel into special on whiff. Apparently anywhere from startup to frame 6, last active frame.

On another note:

  • kara RFC (LK~LP+MP+MK) is very possible, but right now, doesn’t seem to be useful. Requires ranged spacing. Only seems to be practical against whiffed uppercuts, where you don’t have time for level 2 FA.

  • cr.HP on counter hit and possibly meaty can be a RFC lead in. But needs to be right up close.


#11

So I tested it a whole bunch, chaining cr. LK or st. LP work best (I forgot to check back in this thread, so I just saw your response Evan, but yeah, cr. LP > cr. LP (LP GH) gave nothing but really inconsistent results.

  1. cr. LP > DF D DF cr. LP + LK ~ works really well but inputting a LP after the cr. tech OS LP GH ends up giving you LP GH so, cr. LP > cr. LK (OS) > cr. LP isn’t possible (unless I’m getting some weird negative edge timing, I’m not sure). So, there are a few combo possibilities after cr. LK OS LP GH. You can cr. LP > cr. LK (OS) > st./cr. LK (by itself) xx Green Hand (176 damage)

Another possible combo that works (when your opponent is crouching) is: cr. LP > cr. LK (OS) > st. MP > st. LK xx Green Hand (209 damage, 33 more damage than the above option) (worked on Ryu, Guile, Hakan, Rufus, Oni and a few others, but not Blanka (st. MP can whiff from time to time), so there might be other characters the combo doesn’t work on).

  1. cr. LP > F DF F st. LP ~ doesn’t work quite as well. I guess it has to do with st. LP and crouchers

So, cr. LP > cr. LK (OS) seems to be the best way to go about it for now. There’s really no reason to opt for cr. LP > cr. LP (OS) anyway since cr. LK does 10 more damage than cr. LP.

EDIT: I didn’t test who’s back dash it’ll catch and stuff like that. I was more concerned with making the OS work.