Is it me? or did sagat get more nerfed than buffed?
Only real buff he received is force stand on tiger knee. Neither Ultra got much of a buff and the standing short doesn’t really cancel at a useful range.
yea, don’t like the fact they nerfed his shot recovery when zoning is supposed to be his strong points. So all in all, i think he got nerfed more than he got buffed.
Being able to juggle from an EX TK into Ultra 1 for full hits I’d say is a significant corner game buff, since you can also just hit them with any amount of hits with the knee inclusing the last one. By the looks of it , that works on everyone now but I’ve only fucked around in the training room. It also does a lot more damage than the usual EX shot into Ultra.
The st.lk is ass although does seem to have a slight range buff on the first hit from my testing.
The DWU does help gat a fair bit.
He’s not worse, he’s just not S-tier like everyone (but Sagat players) thought. I think he’s still a contender for top 10 ish (Solid mid-tier with some advantages) but a lot of time is going to have to get spent adjusting.
All in all I’m just plain frustrated. This version was promised that all characters would be tournament viable. All Sagat got was fixed broken stuff and nerfs.
Wow, so you made it so a TK on hit doesn’t end up with you getting punished? That the ultra actually doesn’t hit for minimal damage and put you in the corner? Gee thanks, super big buff.
The shot nerf is retarded. high shots did not have broken recovery in the first place. Sure they were faster than maybe rya’s fireball, but guess what? THEY CAN BE DUCKED! its not like Sagat is locking characters down with the broken speed of his projectile, and people were placing top 8 with dominating fireball games. Stupid nerf that no one was asking for.
Weak projectiles overall in SF4 series (with the majority of the cast having easy tools to get around them), and no significant buffs to buttons or hitboxes = we still get bodied in mid-range.
worst of all, the one scary thing was with 2 bars you could get a good comeback with a trade or a hit confirm into ultra, that was the only threat since TU got nerfed into the ground. The ultra and high step kick damage nerfs are stupid and pointless.
So you have a zoning character where zoning isn’t scary, laughable offensive pressure, and no damage output to make anyone scared to go YOLO.
No one has anything to be scared of any more. We are basically a giant easily mixed up hurt box with little threat at any range. I’m gonna have to get good with a top tier to at least have a chance in some of these match ups.
His fireball game is fucked…
There is hope! I messaged combo fiend over at capcom unity, got this reply (you’ll see my original message below it)
Thanks for sending this. I’m FULLY aware of the Sagat sentiment. I honestly feel that if he retained his damage, the fireball nerf wouldn’t have made such a big deal.
Anyhow, I’m making a list with of those characters who didn’t quite hit the mark. Let the other Sagat dudes know I that they’re sentiment isn’t wasted.
Love 99% of the new stuff with Ultra (character select button changes, training room fight request, etc.), however the 1% i don’t like is pretty big: my character Sagat is a sad limp version of what he once was.
If you do a patch to fix any bugs, would you consider revoking the fireball nerf? that hit us out of left field, as zoning hasn’t exactly been dominant in this game at all. I’m yet to see tourney wins off a sagat fireball lockdown, and with the damage or frame data reductions on pretty much every tool in sagat’s toolbox over the last few games, the character struggles all around. Everyone on the sagat SRK forums is considering dropping the character.
What we have with ultra sagat:
- fireballs that are super punishable now
- average buttons with no walkspeed = poor footsies
- fadc nerfs, stepkick and ultra dmg nerfs = no reason to be scared up close
- stuff fixed that should have been fixed from the beginning (ultra corner, wiffed Tiger knee on hit)
So it seems like Sagat is now a character who has the potential to dominate in the corner, but will get bodied on the way to getting them there.
Even just the AE 2012 tiger shot would go a long way to make zoning not awful. Check out the Sagat SRK forums for my sentiment echo’ed. Ultra held great promise, and did a ton of stuff right, I’m just bummed the character I’ve invested 5 years in has been weakened so much.
Dear lord I hope something is done. I’m just now starting to get decent at this game and my favorite character after a whole year of searching gets reduced to a shell of his former self.
I thought the character was top 10 material until they touched his fireball. The unnecessary damage nerfs didn’t help. Back to the middle of the pack Sagat goes…
Some of those buffs for Juri/Dudley were a nice kick in the balls too though.
What puzzles me is that NOBODY was that scared of gat to begin with in AE. Nobody was complaining about him (besides maybe gief players) and they still peck him away to pieces. While cammy, (whom everybody says was broken in AE) gets more tools.
It’s almost like they can’t let go of the image of vanilla sagat and they just want to keep nerfing him to appease a salty audience that has long since forgotten about him and no longer considers him a threat.
I honestly plan on sticking out with gat cause no other character does it for me…but this is frankly disheartening
There are a few reasons for this.
For starters, Bonchan and Ryan Hart. These guys have showed Sagat to be OP(LOL).
The second is, the community has been butthurt over sagat since SF2CE. They hated him then, they hated him in CVS2, and they really hated him in Vanilla(when a lot of new kids started playing). People been walking around with Sagat L’s for so long that the one time they can whine and complain to get their way, shit gets out of hand.
The only thing that actually drives me nuts is that Ryu lost his cr.mk for ONE FUCKING UPDATE and got it back months later, Sagat lost his St.lk 5 years ago, and never got shit back in return.
Honestly I think the TS nerf might be a lot to do with the likes of Hugo. I think that match is practically unwinnable for him. Stupid adjusting characters based on a few matches.
There was no way Sagat’s zoning was that good, even if you watch matches with Hart and Bonchan they are not pure zoners like the Mago of old, in fact I think they spend more time protecting space with normals and anti airing than they do zoning with fireballs. Bonchan in particular tends to deliberately spend a lot of time close to his opponents to shut their fireball reads down.
For starters, Bonchan and Ryan Hart. These guys have showed Sagat to be OP(LOL).
^^^^^ eff this sentiment (you probably feel the same way hence the lol), you look at ryan and bonchans (like 2-3 international tourney) wins, they won that off of incredible reads and reactions. those two are so amazing of players, they could win with probably any upper-mid/top tier if they are getting their reads.
I mean sagat is good, but in those cases it was the driver not the car who won.
Because scrandys love Ryu.
I watched a few streams, haven’t had the chance to pick up ultra since no console yet. Just watching some of the people trying to play him like he was meant to like set play zoning is terribad. Just yolo uppercuts and random overheads will win you games. Might as well pick Yun now, cause this isn’t an environment for zoners unless you are Guile or Gouken who have like ridic recovery, but can still play actual footsies from mid range. I watched Rolento’s ultra fly past Sagat’s high tiger from full screen, and that dude has pressure for days. Unless there are some sort of updates that actually make Sagat better like Combofiend promised that we’d have ‘improved’ versions of our characters, Capcom has lost this customer, yeh speaking with my wallet incase a Capcom rep is reading this.
Alright guys, we’ve vented and yea the nerfs are mind boggling and nonsensical. But Sagats been getting nerfed every game and we still manage to just outsmart our opponents and win. Let’s continue to do so. We’re still tigers.
Anyone got any new stuff they’ve been coming up with in the lab?
Ultra 1 hitting fully in the corner means our corner game is a lot scarier. You can land U1 off tiger knee now with two bars…angry scar allows you to do Tiger knee>EX Uppercut>Ultra 1 for 553 damage in the corner. That’s pretty fantastic off of a measly tiger knee.
We can land Ultra in the corner off of all of our specials now.
Cr. HP counter hit frame traps in the corner will be nasty.
Red Focus adds like nothing to Sagat from what I can tell. Wish we could red focus off of crouching fierce.
Also Ultra 1 forward movement reduction is actually a really big nerf. Just testing on Adons hurtbox…DP FADC backdash doesn’t connect and EX fireball FADC doesn’t connect fully either.
Tiger knee is useful in the neutral now.
You can land U1 from EX TK raw in the corner, 1 bar.
I’ve not played it that much but I’ve not noticed anything drastically different, I was hoping for some kind of stealth buff with TK on block but it’s the same. The U1 buff is good, you can really feel the difference not so much in the damage, but in the position your left in with out having to do any dash under shit, you can pretty much take a life lead from the Ultra and back yourself into position to trap them there. It is a good buff regardless of the push back thing.
I take back stuff that I’ve said.
I messed around with Sagat legit, and wow I was wrong. He’s got some serious potential with that TK. I was doing HUGE amounts of damage with FADC combos, and a lot more one frame links.
Joe, could you elaborate what kind of fadc combos u use for huge damage. The one frame links also.
something i noticed. Cmp into tk is higher damage than cmk into tiger knee. This wasn’t the case in AE…
Another thing i noticed was that i was getting a lot more tiger knee crossups…regular, not ex.
Really enjoying the ex fireball into full ultra.
Krimzn, cr.mp always did more damage than cr.mk (since Super I think).
RealMarz, regarding backdash U1, I was unfamiliar with this against Adon. So I tested 2012 Sagat against 2012 Adon via Edition Select. The first part connects, while the second part whiffs (just like Cammy and Juri). In Ultra, the first part whiffs entirely, which is odd, because there was no mention of adjustment to the first part, only the second part was supposed to have the travel reduction. I’m not sure what setup you used for EX TS FADC U1, because that worked fine for me in both versions.
My feeling on the U1 juggles was that if it worked in the previous game, it works in Ultra, but this finding puts a wrinkle in that theory, lol. I’d be interested to see if there are any more exceptions.
For fun, against Hugo midscreen, you can do EX Knee (all 3 hits) into U2. Would’ve been more useful if it was U1, but that matchup is bad enough as it is.