Versus Human Gill

gill

#1

I need to be able to defeat a Human Player using Gill. I’m not going to be a scrub like my opponent and also pick Gill, I want to consistently win using a normal character and rub it in my opponent’s face.

So far I’ve managed to win using Akuma and Q, so I can definitely do it, just not consistently.

The characters I use are Makoto, Shotos, Hugo Elena, and Q. But I don’t mind picking up a new character just to beat Gill with. I don’t use karacancels(?), and I’d rather not, since I don’t want to win with a glitch.

What characters would be best for me to use against a human Gill, and why?

Any advice would be appreciated.


Scrubquotes is back!
#2

I have no plans of simply letting my opponent win until they are bored. I want to win, and I can win; My opponent is good enough to make it difficult for me to win against Gill, but bad enough to be beatable.

It’s not a matter of my opponent being scrubby for picking Gill, that’s already been a given. It’s a matter of me being able to defeat Gill. You’re suggesting using low tier characters to win, but I think you may be missing my point. Losing with Gill against a regular character is embarassing enough for my opponent.

I still appreciate your advice, it’s just that I’m asking for strategies with characters to win against Gill.

Dealing with the ressurrection is not a problem. My opponent likes to sit back in the corner and shoot projectiles at me until I make a mistake parrying. When I try to jump in, I get hit by the crouching FP, although sometimes I parry it properly and I’m able to get a few hits in. I need to know about any of Gill’s weaknesses that I can exploit, other than his vulnerability after Seraphim Wing.


#3

I usually pick Twelve X.C.O.P.Y.

KwNwEwEwLwBwEwFwOwRwEwYwOwUwRwMwAwSwTwEwR


#4

I appreciate the advice, but I’m not trying to win using Gill, even if it is by X.C.O.P.Y.


#5

Well, not wanting to use Kara Cancels is like not wanting to win at all. Yeah, you might be able to bury a few scrubs without it but not playing your character to their full potential is just a waste.

If you can get close, try nailing him with Denjin Ryu. I highly doubt a Gill player has become accustomed to Denjin setups (watch vids/search for more info) and won’t be able to block. After stunning them you can do serious damage with jump in fierce, cl/cr. fierce and roundhouse tatsu. Also, if you know you’re comboing a crouching opponent, go for a roundhouse/EX Joudan to finish the combo. It does more damage than any special move. The EX will combo on a standing opponent as well. Also Ryu takes and deals damage incredibly well, is the most balanced character in 3s, and is generally simple. Also Ryu does have an applicable Kara throw, but it’s not as important as Chun Li’s or Makoto’s.

Try to learn the timing of those Anti-Air crouching fierces, if you can parry them (2 hits) you’re in close for some serious damage. Good luck.


#6

Get good with Ken. Never fails.


#7

Thanks for the advice. Since my opponents aren’t using Kara-cancels, I don’t think it’s fair for me to.

I used to think that the Denjin Hadoken was only useful after you canceled it from Shoryuken. The set-ups I read were very helpful and I got a nice little 4 win streak going. The only problem is that my opponent started to parry the Denjin making my success rate with it go down. My opponent also isn’t using the crouching fierce as much as an anti-air, and is using the Anti-Air Cryo/Pyro Kinesis…giving me some problems. For some reason, I find it much harder to parry…maybe it is psychological.

Gill’s Standing Roundhouse is a problem for me as well. That move seems to hit me out of Shoryuken’s pretty often. And his Crouching Fierce knocks me cleanly out of the Hurricane Kick and into one of those combos.

DevilJin 01, is there anything in particular with Ken that I should be trying to use?

Thanks again for all the advice.


#8

play to win guy …

if he pick gill is because he suck …i think you can pick gouki and air fireball roundhouse tatsumaki all time if he not play well
if he are decent …i think you need pick gill for win …

i can’t understand why people pick gill…


#9

They’re using Gill, and yet you think you owe them something…Lemme see if I can squash this. You are going to lose unless you do something your opponent doesn’t do. There is no escaping this. Mind games, kara, hit confirms, actual combos whatever. If your opponent isn’t wising up to what you’re doing they don’t deserve to win. They should lose for spamming Pyro/Cryo-Kinesis. These forums weren’t made to give your opponent a fighting chance. Do you see any threads about how to random/whiff super? No. See any threads about picking Ken’s SAII? No. We’re here to help you; and you have to want help for us to be doing any good.

Try cancelling into Denjin from a jab fireball. Release the Denjin (spin your stick/pad to charge faster) before or just after the jab fireball comes into contact with your opponent (depends on spacing). The denjin should touch them a split second after the fireball, making the parry rhythm noticably more difficult. Also, a cheeky trick is to only allow the tail of the denjin to touch your opponent (knockdown is required for this) if they’re in the corner they’ll be basically forced to parry something they can’t even see.

I guess so, perhaps in your spare time you can learn to parry the move in the Parry Training mode. It’s only two hits really.

Play more safely. The only time you should be doing a shoryu (doesn’t even matter which shoto) is as part of a combo or when you know it’ll connect (i.e. after a parry). Basically, when you’re doing a shoryu your opponent should be able to kick you, let alone move of their own free will.

Same advice as the shoryu. The only hurricane kick you can use randomly is Akuma’s, and if you’re getting knocked out of it you can’t do it randomly either.

Not that I’m DevilJin, but you should only use his third super art. All of his normals are really good too, so feel free to spam 'em. If you can hit confirm with two crouching shorts you’ll be solid against Gill players.


#10

RaishinX, I don’t feel as though I owe my opponent anything, it just that abusing a glitch is a weak way to win to me. Chip damage? Fine. Throws? Fine. Time Over? Fine. Combos? Fine. Overheads? Fine. A glitch? Weak. Picking Gill/Cheap Boss? Weak. My opponent might be content to win using a boss, but I don’t see anything to be proud of. However, I can be proud of beating an opponent using a boss with a regular character. Conversely I know that losing to a normal character with an overpowered boss is shameful. Confirming hits, and using mind games are parts of every fighting game. I’m listening and applying all the non kara cancel related advice you are giving me.

On that note, your advice RaishinX, is great. By playing a bit more conversatively (not using Shoryuken after I get knocked down), I was able to beat Gill consistently, and the Denjin “Tail” advice helped a whole lot as well. Ryu seems to be getting the job done. I looked up some Ken strats to see what to use, and Ken works pretty well too. I got a nice little 15 streak without using Kara-Cancels so as far as I am concerned, I learned all the necessary things I needed to win.

Thanks again folks.


#11

Out of curiosity, could you define exactly what a kara-cancel is, for us, Red Lotus?


#12

It’s a glitch that allows a player to cancel a normal move into a Throw or Special move giving it extra range that it wouldn’t normally have. Out of curiousity, Xen Master Mark, could you contribute to the thread by giving some anti-Gil strats?


#13

Fair enough. I was half convinced you’d mixed genuine Kara’s up with normal cancels, the way you were talking about them.

Using Kara’ed moves effectively takes a lot of skill and nimble execution. It’s an avenue for skill in 3S, just like hit confirming, parrying or anything else. The game is a better game with Karas in it. They’re not really that big of a deal though.

Versus Gill? What is there to say? He has the advantage of outrageous damage, high stamina, unequaled speed, unfair priority, huge range, chip damage off his heavy normals, 100% stun combos, Resurrection and the most damaging super in the game. He’s faster than Ibuki, deals damage like Hugo, takes damage like Q and has more priority than Chun. Oh, and he has no real weaknesses.

There isn’t much you can exploit against him. Everything you can do, he can do better. Just hope you’re a much better player than your opponent, keep your wits and you’re still in with a chance.


#14

but what is the problem with this…if this glitch not is banned you can use …
kara-throw make 3rdstrike more interesting …more mix ups …more tactics(for sggk you need use kara-throw).
if you pick urien/oro …you can use this unblockeable…(and this is a glitch) or selective tech.
guy not have weaks ways for win …only have way of win.
if your friend pick gill… well, you not need play against he…


#15

Everyone is willing to criticize me for not using Kara-cancels, and that’s all good and well as long as you give decent advice. Sigh…those are not helpful strats, nor is what you say totally accurate. The reason why it isn’t helpful, is that I am aware of Gills advantages. You should have gotten that by reading the thread. The reason why it isn’t accurate is because Gill does in fact have weaknesses despite his advantages. Although it took me a while to figure it out…Gill is weak on Wake-up. His options for attacking a recovering opponent are not stellar, and he doesn’t have any amazing wake-up moves himself. That’s part of the reason why he does so poorly against Denjin Ryu. Anyways, I appreciate you at least trying to humor me.


#16

It might be a glitch, but if it helps you feel any better about it at all, Capcom’s probably okay with you using it, seeing as how they haven’t removed it from any of 3s’s many iterations.


#17

Another guy who wants to talk about glitches and not give anti Gill strats. If you’re not going to add strats, then you shouldn’t bother talking to me about glitches.


#18

Jida=RaishinX Just FYI. And there’s less incentive to give advice when you’re only willing to accept part of it. The best thing you can probably do is stop messing with Gill players.


#19

You keep asking for general strategies, but you’re just handicapping yourself to the point where most people in this thread can’t even help you. From what’s been said in this thread the only thing I know about your opponent is that he spams AA Fireballs and you’re either not good enough to realize jumping is bad or something is missing.

How does your opponent play? Does he constantly attack you? Does he stay out of your range and poke you? Does he turtle and fireball spam?

Help is best given when you are specific. You aren’t playing to win anyways. You say that you want to win fairly? Kara-canceling is a legitimate strategy and from what I know, Capcom has not said anything about Karas being a glitch. They did after all give a certain character (*ahem Makoto) a move that is pretty much canceled by everything except for a universal throw and other normals (as opposed to being able to cancel into universal throws from the starting frames of any other normal).

Well anyways, I don’t see what you mean by Gill not having a good wake-up. If you’re shooting off uppercuts on wake-up all the time, you’re not that good anyways. He should be watching you and be doing the typical throw if you’re too close, block or mash c.lk, c.mk, c.rh on wake up if you’re not anyways or be blocking if you’re doing backstep, forward throw or whiff/tick throwing him.

Anyways, to address strategies to beat Gill with you have to know that even if your opponent is not even half as good as you, that still doesn’t change the fact that Gill has near instant high priority moves that WILL hit you. Parrying helps, but in general it becomes very hard to rush him down if your opponent is even remotely competent.

If he stays away and just fireballs you, you have to learn to parry. Either that or pick a character that has good range on pokes, good projectiles or good ground distance covering moves. Good candidates are Chun Li, Yun, Akuma, Remy or hell, even Ibuki.

Chun Li can dash in on AA and use f+HP which is pretty fast and has quite a bit of range. You can do the same thing if he switches to a ground fireball, jump over and f+HP. Knocking Gill down and harassing him with throws, s.RH and other things until you have the meter for anything xx SA2. c.LP, MK Kara LP+LK works really well as well as walking back out of throw range and MK Kara LP+LK, but whether you wanna learn to use competitive techniques or not is up to you.

Yun is kind of the same, you can shoulder under the fireball if you time it right or just learn to jump and dive past the fireball. c.MK x LP shoulder is probably the safest thing you can do as it has the most range of what you can do to cancel into GJ (SA3) safely, or you could just do c.MK xx SA3. Continue with GJ pressure from there. OH hop kicks and walking forward c.LKs work well until you hit him and you can go into a GJ string from there. If you’re getting AA fireballs at midrange you can just lunge punch him in the gut. Pretty standard stuff.

Akuma can do well against scrubby players in general. Air fireballs should be wake-up only as Gill’s AA is 2 hits and most likely will be hitting you if you both shoot off fireballs. Best thing to do is probably to just jump or demon-flip (K before hitting the ground to move quickly) over fireballs, pressure with RH Hurricane Kicks and throws. Abuse sweep at max distance and see if he responds or punishes. If he doesn’t, keep doing it, jump up air fireball on knockdown, dash forward and either go c.LK x LK Hurricane Kick etc or f+MP (OH). If you’re using Akuma, best super is probably SA1. If you really have to, super through his ground fireballs or if you’re close enough and he starts randomly shooting AA fireballs.

Lastly Remy can be useful as well. He has a lot of forward moving or long ranged pokes (f+HP, s.MK, j.RH). Low sonic boom spam and j.HP, s/c.MP x regular/EX high/low sonic booms can work. I doubt your opponent really even parries at all and it’s good to keep the pressure on him. If you’re not as adamant about learning to at least use Karas, try j.HP, close s.mk, RH Kara LP+LK. Pretty hard to do consistently, but well worth it if you learn how to do it.

There are others that can do well, but that’s dependent on how your opponent plays and also with how good you are yourselff.


#20

Xiii, is your screen name suppose to be “8” or “Zee” or “Zai”? Just curious. Anyhow I appreciate your advice. I don’t see how not using Kara-cancels is “handicapping yourself to the point where most people in this thread can’t even help you”. Let’s say that I decide to use Kara-cancels with Ryu. How much more are the scales going to be tipped in my favor. Honestly. Break that down for me, since I am “not playing to win”. You might say that because I choose not to use glitches, but the fact of the matter is that my skills in parrying have become several leagues better, and I’m able to hit confirm of off moves with a tiny hit confirm window. Constantly improving my game in these areas does not constitute playing to lose. I don’t see how kara-cancelling helps Ibuki out either.

My skills have improved drastically since I started this topic, to the point where I can parry Gill’s AA Fireball s.Forward, s.Rounhouse and c.Fierce with ease. I initially wanted advice to help me get around my inability to parry Gill’s moves, but that is no longer an issue. My opponent used to turtle and fireball spam and would go offensive when my life was low. Now my opponent is reluctant to turtle and plays a lot more aggressively because the same tricks don’t work anymore. Now that this Gill is playing more aggresively he is easier to punish. I can parry his scrub tactics away and He’s forced to used his SA’s because he’s afraid of what I will do when Gill does the auto-resurrection.

That low kick string is not a smart move for Gill to use in general, and not a wise thing to do on wake-up. Only the 1st two hits link, the Roudhouse is not guaranteed. My opp goes for the Roundhouse he get’s parried and comboed, so he stopped doing it. Depending on my distance from Gill it will be very obvious when he’s going for the kick’s so I will just jump straight up or parry. I don’t see how trying to throw me on wake-up is going to work for Gill. He’ll just get hit. My opponent used to wake-up and parry my Denjin, but my set-ups have gotten more twisted now. Against Denjin Ryu, Gill is as a good as Dizzied…it’s too difficult to parry the backside of the Denjin.

Parrying helps quite a bit against Gill, as long as you’re doing so intelligently. If you’re parrying like an idiot, and end up tapping f and d without parrying anything then you have a problem. However, if you are able to space yourself properly and understand the range of his moves Gill is quite easy to parry.