Very basic Ken questions

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
#1

So I lost to a Ken player the other day fair and square, but a few things in the match threw me for a loop. I know these are very basic questions but I’m at the stage where I’m still learning the basic mechanics of SSF4.

First off I’m a total sucker for the standard Ken/Ryu j. HK to c.HK. I fall for that every time. I think my problem is that I’m crouch blocking the j.HK and that gets through every time. Is that considered an overhead and can’t be blocked when crouching? I assume that I need to block standing then block crouching to be safe from the j.HK c.HK combo…correct?

Secondly, I tried to throw Ken after a whiffed shoryuken but he hit me with a second one as soon as he hit the ground. I would have thought there would have been a second to punish him after he landed but it seemed like he was able to launch the second shoryuken as soon as he touched down. Was my timing off or should I just punish him in the air on the way down?

Lastly, I seem to be a sucker for the wake up shoryuken (not the podcast…but I guess I am a sucker for that as well ^_^). Even when I’m blocking I seem to get hit with that. Should I be crouch blocking the shoryuken?

Again, I realize these are very noob type questions but we all need to start somewhere and I’d appreciate any insight you all could offer…Thanks! :slight_smile:

#2

yes, block standing then crouching.

i dont play sf4 so i dont know how fast kens jab SRKs come out, but im sure someone will make a comment about how to punish those.

you must not be blocking. you CAN block shoryus standing or crouching.

#3

Yes you need to stand block then cr. block

If it’s online and its SSF4 I wouldn’t even try if its a wiffed lp.srk

It doesn’t matter how you block it. standing or crouching works.

Np I’m really bored.

EDITED: T_T I got beat to the reply and he gave the same advice as me XD

#4

Thanks to both of you! That answers my questions perfectly :slight_smile:

#5

Thats not accurate. You CAN block jumping roundhouse while crouching or standing; it Is not an overhead in any way. But the truth is, if you see somebody jumproundhouse, 90% of aall shotos (ryus and kens) WILL CrRH or Throw, every single time.
Also Ken’s lp SRK has ridiculous recovery, so you should always try to punish it from afar (via sweep on his landing) or when he’s in the air. You wont be able to walk up and throw him fast enough if its the lp version.

And Last but not least, Wakeup SRK (or as I like to call it in some cases "Mashing DP) is pretty much a bait-and-wiff scenario. One thing I was told and taught myself to never forget while playing online was this: Dont ever OVERestimate you’re opponent’s abilities to stoop to scrub crap tactics just to rack up cheesy wins. You should assume that every goddamn person you play WILL mash DPs, spam 360 motion command grabs, and throw nonstop.

You should get into the habit of not respecting anyones game online, and force the good players to earn your respect. But dont ever think you’re opponent WONT spam the same moveset over and over in hopes of earning a win.

Just my thots @@

#6

Wait wait wait wait

you can block jumping attacks crouching?

SINCE FUCKING WHEN?

#7

since never, hes wrong

#8

I’m aware of that.

Hence my overzealous reaction

#9

Ken’s lp shoryulen comes out in 3 frames and has some invincibility. It’s also one of the fastest moves in the game. Online with input lag and everything else, you’re gonna be hard pressed to punish one with something like a throw.

#10

Thanks again for the info guys. I appreciate it!

#11

How fast it comes out has nothing to do with how much recovery it has

#12

Touche’. Thanks

#13

With various online factors in place, it also recovers incredibly fast too. Actually, even offline, it recovers incredibly fast. It seems to be that way in Super Turbo as well. I would recommend baiting the SRK, then punishing with a basic combo that knocks down if you’re playing online. That way, they can’t mash out an SRK while you’re comboing them. Offline is a totally different story however. You can typically throw them if you’re playing offline. Be advised though, Ken’s jab SRKs come out fast and recover fast, so have your punish in mind beforehand.

#14

The real question is why are you blocking the jump ins?

#15

What the hell are you talking about? Blocking is one of the best moves you can use against a jump in because it can be used in almost every situation. Any other counter is situational.

I know this has been cleared up now but…wtf made you think this!?

#16

"And Last but not least, Wakeup SRK (or as I like to call it in some cases "Mashing DP) is pretty much a bait-and-wiff scenario. One thing I was told and taught myself to never forget while playing online was this: Dont ever OVERestimate you’re opponent’s abilities to stoop to scrub crap tactics just to rack up cheesy wins. You should assume that every goddamn person you play WILL mash DPs, spam 360 motion command grabs, and throw nonstop. "

Wake up lp shoryukens are a legitimate tactic, its pretty safe and leads to mind on people who get cocky.
If you stand above me waiting on a throw, you will eat DP.
if you try to empty jump to punish a throw you will eat DP.
if you try to try to focus attack on wake up you will eat DP.
If you misjudge your spacing from a focus fake and dash you will eat DP.
if you are waaay to high on your crossover you will eat DP.
If you block my first DP then you will eat my second DP for trying to punish it.

At least it’s not guys hurricane kick.

#17

"And Last but not least, Wakeup SRK (or as I like to call it in some cases "Mashing DP) is pretty much a bait-and-wiff scenario. One thing I was told and taught myself to never forget while playing online was this: Dont ever OVERestimate you’re opponent’s abilities to stoop to scrub crap tactics just to rack up cheesy wins. You should assume that every goddamn person you play WILL mash DPs, spam 360 motion command grabs, and throw nonstop. "

Wake up lp shoryukens are a legitimate tactic, its pretty safe and leads to mind on people who get cocky.
If you stand above me waiting on a throw, you will eat DP.
if you try to empty jump to punish a throw you will eat DP.
if you try to try to focus attack on wake up you will eat DP.
If you misjudge your spacing from a focus fake and dash you will eat DP.
if you are waaay to high on your crossover you will eat DP.
If you block my first DP then you will eat my second DP for trying to punish it.

At least it’s not guys hurricane kick.

#18

False.

Throwing someone with a DP on wakeup is silly, especially if you know they’re likely to DP. Unless you’ve got them trained to not srk on wakeup, however I stand by the idea that you can’t train 99% of online players to do anything but mash harder.

No one with any brains tries to safe jump shotos because you can’t.

No one really tries that because a whole load of characters have ways to get around it, especially shotos.

No one tries that bait as its see through as hell.

Again, who would try to cross someone up with a DP unless they know what they’re doing is safe (ibukis x-up kunai, that j,hp thing bison has)

No. lp.dp isn’t some magical unpunishable thing, it’s plenty punishable online, you’d have to have dan-tier normals not to be able to punish it, even then Dan can U1 it on reaction. Failing that I’ll block the second one and punish that, it’s not hard to notice if someone is doing lp.dp, hp.dp all the time.
Half of the things you’ve listed would just be stupid to even try against a shoto, imo.

It’s iffy to punish lp.dp, but after a while you get faster at reacting to it. Once you find out a good punish it’s easy to slap around a dp happy shoto.

True dat.

To OP, find a good quick normal that your character has and throw it out there, cancel it into a special and you should be fine (Vipers c.mp xx mp.tk, Ryus c.mp xx whatever), that or if you’ve got a quick sweep, sweep the dp.

#19

im talking about online play btw the lag screws timing and honestly i think its the only reason i can meaty makotos st.mp but those scenarios i described above are all situations ive caught myself in playing people over 5000 bp and at least 1800 pp. I think the PP is the only acurate way to measure skill in this screwed up system and sorry i assumed in match opponent training was a given

#20

your thots are fucking retarded.

ay mods can you guy start giving infractions to idiots constantly giving out misinformation.