Viability of 1-frame links


#1

I was just watching the TS5 dvd trailer and noticed BAS did this with sakura;

qcb+hk, s.lp, activate, s.lk, s.mk, shoshosho

Got me just wondering, how consitent are people (by ‘people’ read: japanese) at 1-frame links thesedays? I know that I still find them far, far too inconsistent but that’s just me :rolleyes:. Has anyone started to actually incorporate them into their tourney games or is it just saved for casuals? I remember noone said RC could become consistent and that 3frames was too unreliable but we got passed that. Think the same would ever be true for 1-frame links?

P.S If you CAN consitently do qcb+hk, s.lp with sakura, then you have one hell of a bnb :tup:.


#2

Anyone could link that sak link after practice with enough consistency. But why would you do it over the regular bnb which is lightyears easier to perform than this one.

cvs2 speed3 will omit every 5th frame, so you have 80% given chance that it CAN link and 20% impossibility. I think that’s in your favor.

Combofiend rolento might be a good example. Fool keeps doing meaty stand strong - stand jab - low forward XX patriot circles. I’d just link low forward right after the meaty strong, but he gets it more than often to actually go for a jab’s damage and make this a 1 frame link combo.

practice


#3

So you think it is possible to be fairly consistnent? If you can get it downpat then sak would have say j.hk c.hp xx qcb+hk, s.lp s.lk xx dp+hp.

Also if what you say is true then I don’t know if 70-80% is consistent enough. Since when does cvs2 omit every 5th frame?


#4

GGXX relies on them for some characters. It isn’t too hard to get them down, but you may miss them occasionally.


#5

That Sak combo you mentioned is character specific, i think.

To your last question, since forever


#6

In Guilty gear I could get 1 frame FRC’s like 80% of the time. It’s hard takes time and is random but not impossible


#7

Sak’s qcb+rh into the jab short dp isn’t that hard. Activating off the jab seems a bit harder but still possible to do consistantly, just practice.


#8

Yeah, Guilty Gear does have some reliable one-frame links such as Ky’s 6K -> 5S. People do these all the time too.

Comepletely different game yes… But It shows that people CAN be somewhat consistant with one-frame links.


#9

Does GGXX run at 60fps and hence suffer the same ‘missing 5th frame’ that cvs2 apparently does though?

And can anyone explain WHY cvs2 omits every 5th frame? Does it matter if the tv is running 50hz or 60hz?


#10

GGXX only runs at one speed. It’s always 60FPS.


#11

Show me proof! A translation out of the Japanese CvS2 book would be great for example. A confirmation from BAS himself or one of the respected players he plays with would work as well.

“Somewhat consistent” is an oxymoron. Either you are or you aren’t.


#12

That Sakura combo isn’t character specific, unless there is some character in the game that can duck Sakura’s standing jab.

kcxj, just watching match videos. Some characters (Slayer) basically have the links as their B&B. They aren’t that much harder than 2 frame links.

I heard that Kindebu used two of them in one combo during the finals for something? That sounds like confidence to me.

And that frame omission thing can’t be true. Then 2-frame links would have a random 20% chance of becoming a 1 frame link, omitting one of the two frames possible for the link to exist on. Which would make any 2-frame link only 90% sure.


#13

What I meant by somewhat consistant is being able to get it right but missing it occasionally.


#14

ask bucktooth he seen me do axl FRC alot(when he was around). Not as much as I can now but still a good 80 %(or maybe it was tragic? fuck i cant remember)


#15

Yeh I’m still very skeptical on the existence of this ‘disappearing 5th frames’. I’d love to hear a reason WHY this would happen…

As for the 1-frame links I guess it’s a question of risk/reward. I used to be able to do akuma’s c.lp --> c.hk link fairly consistently (I’d hazzard a guess to say around 70%) and that wasn’t worth it when I messed up. It ment that 30% of the time I’d lose a CC opportunity (I’m not gonna lie, I can’t do Akuma’s ‘proper’ CC myself - but it’s the principle of the thing =P).

Does anyone know if the Bas scenario I listed above in the trailer was in a tourney match or casuals?


#16

Well, the risk-reward is based on the damage potential/advantage of that move or combo in particular.

If you want to know if you can manage them consistently (around 100%) with practice, then yes, it is possible and I bet many players use it based on how confident they are in it. But unless it gives you a large benefit over some other alternative, then I wouldn’t suggest it, unless you are going to pull it in casual to be flashy.


#17

Gawd…where’s Maj. I thought surely SOMEBODY would tell these guys how cvs2 and other games’ speed settings work.

FACT #1: All games’ frame data is taken from speed 1. That is the speed where everything is based off of. Speed = where every frame gets animated on screen to your eyes.

FACT #2: All the other (obviously faster) speeds omit a frame every X number of frames to reduce speed. In cvs2, speed3 is told to be omitting a frame from animating every 5 frames. This is how all the games since forever sped up. Run an emulator and count for all you still-nonbelievers.

3s only runs on one speed as well as the guilty gear series, thus giving all the possible links 100% chance that it can work.

If you ever remember leeching those sairec and harvest combo vids and watching some, tell me that they didn’t slow the game down to speed 1. Those ChunLi combos they do with tons of lightning kick links are sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to do in speed3, because I can recall at least 3 instances where they did 2 hits of rh lightning kicks - stand far strong XX kick super (which is a 1 frame link). Same with that Blanka combo, where they combo 4 cr.lk in a row XX ball (dizzy) and then doing cr.lk x3 - cr.lp XX lv3 ball. This is all 1 combo.

If you do the math, a combo containing 1 one-frame link has 80% chance of success in speed3 in cvs2. That Blanka combo that has 6 one-frame links has (0.8^6 = 0.262144) 26.2144% chance of success in speed3.

As a side note, if you activate in cvs2 at a moment where you’ve put at least +5 frame advantage to yourself, then you gain +1 at the end of CC flash, making +5 into a +6. Go try with Ryu cr.mp - activate - sweep, or with Sak s.jab x2 - activate - far s.rh .

I should’ve known… that these people will only kiss someone like BAS’s ass to ask about how cvs2 speed settings work (he might very well know), than give someone like THE LAUGH credit for his kind answer to someone who wanted to know exactly what he wanted to know plus more. I love srk.


#18

Noone ever hated on you man :P.

Thankyou for explaining about the dissappearing frames. This all makes a lot more sense now :).

What we still don’t have however is anyone’s flatout opinion on whether 1-frame links are viable in CvS2 tourney play. We know that the most consistent you can ‘inhumanly’ be is 80%, and we know that number scales drastically with multiple 1-frame links in the same combo. From what I’ve heard here I still get the impression that they’re just for flaunting in casuals. I’d by happy to hear different if someone says so.


#19

I thought kcxj was joking ^^


#20

Omni showed me the TS5 trailer cuz he said it was the best trailer of all time. When we got to the crazy bas combo, he said, “and that bullshit is the reason bas loses tournaments.” Tournament or not, people like to show off.