Viper's safe jump setups

Alright, so I’ve been trying to incorporate safe jumps into my game more, but I’m having some trouble with the whole “throw, wait a bit or a bit longer or a bit shorter, jump”.

Other characters usually have some normal they can whiff that gives them frame exact timing for their safe jump setup. Doesn’t Viper have anything of the sort?

for after a forward throw just dash then wait a second and back throw just wait a second. If you want to crossup walk forward and then jumpin. If you must wiff something maybe do a seismo feint or something else. Its not hard to just figure out something else on your own

The problem with wanting to whiff a normal to get the safe jump timing down you could do that with a back throw but the jump in is no longer ambiguous. Due to the distance Viper is at after a forward or back throw Viper is forced to move forward in order to make her jump ambiguous and whiffing a normal after wards throws the safe jump timing off. You could probably develop a whiff normal safe jump timing if you throw them into the corner but you’ll have to go into the lab for that.

For the most part, forward throw, dash, hpTK cancel works pretty okay. mpTK cancel for characters with no fast wakeup.

Also remember that against shotos, you have a safe air crossup flame kick timing as well. Learn that timing yourself, though… it’s hard to explain.

I’ve got most, if not all, timings pretty much down, so that’s not the problem. I also found that using hp feints usually gives good timing, also on back throw. (Back throw, hp feint, jump in HK gives solid safe jump timing). My main issue for starting this thread was that all other threads on safe jump setups basically say “Back throw/forward throw > Wait a bit > Jump in”. “Wait a bit” is way too random and missing a 1 or 2 frame safe jump window after “waiting a bit” can have pretty disastrous results. Also, safe jump =/= ambiguous jump in. Both serve different purposes and have different setups, so that wasn’t much help either. An ambiguous jump in is designed to get your opponent blocking the wrong way and give you an opening to combo. A safe jump setup is simply a sure-fire way to guarantee you can continue pressure/mixups or bait out a reversal.

Anyway, in summary, hp feints seem the way to go with this. Will experiment more when I get my internet back.

In the corner after a forward throw immediately whiff a mp thunder knuckle and then hold neutral jump. It’s a safe jump setup against all characters with normal wakeup time and 4 frame reversals (ken mp dp for instance). You can also use that same setup but neutral emptyjump to try to bait out 3 frame reversals (ryu).

Greetings! Nice finds everyone!

While checking this nice thread I was testing one of the setups: corner forward throw, MP TK, neutral jump. I was testing it against many characters with 4 frame reversals(like guile) and when I tested it against dudley’s EX dp, it beat the “safe jump” clean! I looked around and found the untechable knockdown frames for all the charactes, and besides ibuki, sagat and cammy(and the unfair adon) I found nothing about dudley… is there a mistake and dudley’s EX dp is a 3 framer or there’s different wakeup times for every untechable knockdown in the game?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I can post a very crappy vid if needed…

EDIT 2: Found another one, I’m sure most of you already know it but I’m glad I found it by myself: after a regular throw midscreen, mash 2 dashes and a forward jump. It’s great for almost all the cast, for 4 frames reversals and an empty jump can block 3 framers just like TheLastWolves said on his post. This one I can really do 95% of the time! :smiley: I’ll use this one and the MP TK one too until I master the timing for the back throw into HP TK feint one(I keep getting EX TK or a late feint…).

By the way, Lainysky, do you mind giving me more detail about the “forward throw, dash, hpTK cancel” one? Like, it’s supposed to be in the corner? And if it’s midscreen, after that I’m supposed to do a super jump? Thanks in advance!

It’s mid-screen, and you land with a hk. If you do it in the corner, you’ll go over them and your hk will whiff. Works on everyone with 5f reversals or worse. For 4f or lower, replace hptk feint with a and jump in with a meaty lk for a free 50/50 afterwards.

My contributions for 1 of the twins.