Vism Karin A3


#1

any good comboes or infinites she has on regular or Vism?


#2

(Ooh, my first post, I’ve been reading the odd shoryuken article from time to time for a few months though)

While this sticky thread:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=916

offers more than I could, I’ll give this one a shot based on how I play Karin online…

basics:

standing medium kick is a good poke, and cancelled into DF+Punch for punch rushes will be the main 'meat' combo of the match for the most part... Vary your finishes.

This isn't as basic as it sounds. The power (weak, medium, powerful punch) of the rush punches should always be selected in order to make you finish *just* tapping them with a shallow finisher, to that you can't get punished if they block.

Also, remember that one of her best options is to just do 1 or 2 of the rushed punches, then run forward and grab while their block is up. After a few of these, a smart opponent will start poking in the gaps, so use the low counter finisher and follow it up with an air grab if he flips. (or supermove f you're in Aism)

The up+kick finisher can be followed up with medium kick -> DF+punch

AISM:
~~~
I just have 2 uses for karins Aism bar...
1. Hop kick (whether it's a finisher or not) -> kick super. (Note: Much easier to time with a level 2 or 3 super than a level 1). If they don't flip you can follow this up with a powerful flying kick.
2. Hop kick -> punch super - if the enemy blocks your hop kick, they will often retaliate, and the punch super will hit them, setting them up for juggles. If they keep their block up, the punch super at level 2 will keep you safe.

VISM:
~~~~
I use Vism almost exclusively for off-the-ground combos, or activate Vism just as the opponent is getting up, to stuff their DP timing and get in a grab...

Most powerful:
Medium Vism -> 360+kick -> fierce elbow x2 -> fierce DP -> DF+P -> F+P finisher -> DP+P
(This does the command throw, enemy is kneed twice then throws behind karin - karin then juggles with her double elbow, followed by a palm thrust, followed by a basic rush punch (which misses), and the palm thrust finisher, followed by another palm thrust, followed by another whiffed rush punch, palm thrust finisher, etc...the joypad roll after the grab is funny since karin changes direction - If you're facing right and grab, roll right-down-back and hit fierce twice)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sylph1/KARIN%2050%25%20FRO%20UPPERCUT.avi

Easiest to do:
medium Vism -> 360+kick -> medium rush punchesx2 -> up+weak/medium kick finisher (misses) -> immediate 360+kick (grabs off the ground) -> repeat.
(This sounds like it might be difficult, 3 off-the-grounds in one combo... It's not, it's incredibly easy. If you're facing right as you grab, then roll down -> right and hit medium punch twice, followed by up+weak kick. The timing is all done for you, so you *will* grab them off the ground if you do a 360+kick the instant she lands from her overhead finisher.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sylph1/karin%20easy.avi

Not OTG:
If the enemy is standing and you can't get the off-the-ground throw in, then sometimes it's worth activating medium Vism, doing rush punches into the powerful or medium up+kick finisher... This will jump right over the enemy's head, missing them completely, but you can do a 360+kick the second you land to get into the above combos.



That's about it, her infinites need little explanation (just find a V combo that incorporates a hopkick, then jump and powerful punch, followed by a crouch cancel then repeated jumping powerful kicks for as long as you like).

As a final note I'd advise you to get used to 360+kick, because she heavily relies on it, not only for Vism combos, but for crossups. After you can do them 100% of the time, start working on timing them to grab off the ground - the timing has to be somewhat precise - you'll notice an opponent 'bounces' twice when they are swept - you want to be grabbing them at the instant their second 'bounce' hits the floor.
Play her as a real grabber and you'll probably do well online. I can't speak for tourney play because I'm not an expert myself, but I'd imagine punch rushes into grab would not work and grab as opponent is getting up would not work.

[edit - whoops, I just realised the stickied Vism youtube thread does a far better job of addressing this than I did here. You should read it...]

#3

How do you crouch cancel with Karin? I’m an idiot, please help. :lovin:


#4

Same as you crouch cancel with any character - hold down as you land from a jump, then the moment you do actually land, before she’s got all the way into the ducking pose, jump again.

For example, while corner-juggling with palm thrusts when your Vism is nearly out of power, go into a jumping light punch, hold down, when you land quickly shift the pad to towards to ‘crouch cancel’ into a walk (walk cancel), then after your shadow hits them with a jumping weak punch, you jump toward the flying opponent, powerful kick, then land holding down, quickly jump again and powerful kick again, and keep repeating that as long as you can keep it up…

You should really check the youtube videos thread that’s stickied, better to not clog the board with a post like this…


#5

That makes two of us! Anyway, here are some other good A-ism Karin combos that I found useful…

  1. J. Middle (works better as crossup) -> C. Strong (wait and cancel, the timing is tricky) -> Rekka-ken (use Hop kick as a finisher) -> Kick Super
    This worked many times for me since I usually always use Rekka-kens to cancel out the opponent’s wake-up games, and once they get discouraged and try to block instead I use the cross-up combo above. Also I like using her air throw sometimes after the kick super to finish the combo.

  2. J. Middle -> C. Strong -> Punch Super
    I prefer the other combo but this one works almost just as good. This one knocks down the opponent unlike the other one.

  3. J. Middle -> C. Short (three times) -> Rekka-ken


#6

Rather than make a new thread, I’ll just post some stuff here. This is for Karin in general, with specific ISM tricks also thrown in.


As Sylph said, s.mk is a great poke, and probably her primary. …But s.mp is also great. It has a bit more priority, and seems to stuff better than s.mk. As a result, it is a great tool against advancing pokes, ESPECIALLY Ryu/Akuma’s hop kick. It can be used, to some extent, as a meaty after a knockdown (but be warned that it is vulnerable to wake-up supers, and has to be timed right). You can also combo her rekkas off s.mp.

c.mk is also good…off the top of my head I’m not sure if it has more range/priority that s.mk, I just know it’s decent. It’s a good poke to use if you think your opponent is going to go for a high/mid poke.


Thanks to Karin’s fast walking speed, you can actually evade pokes, and then use your s.mk to punish the whiff.

Let’s look at Sakura’s s.fk, a very potent poke. If you try to s.mk at around the same time Sakura does her s.fk, Sak is probably going to win that one. But, if you input the command a few frames after Sak’s s.fk, you can actually hit Sak’s leg during recovery. This is where Karin’s walking speed is key. Use the two together - walk into the edge of Sak’s s.fk range. This will probably bait out a s.fk from your opponent. Now, back out of range, then stick out your s.mk to punish Sak’s leg. You’ve now turned one of the strongest pokes in the game into damage for you.


An unexpected poke that Karin has is her DP+K, the hop kick. …No, really. It moves her foward while attacking at the same time. It works great as an anti-poke. You should only do this move in mid-range…doing it too close can lead to you possibly getting punished. Also, note that at the optimal range, it won’t launch…but you don’t really need it to.


Another great tactic - while in mid range, do ONE rekka. It will whiff, but the important part is what comes next.

If you’ve done it close enough, your rekka has whiffed, but you are (relatively) safe. But now, from here, in one move you can counter, rainbow palm, or slide, all of which will be in range. This is an incredible mix-up game.

Rainbow palm (I’m gonna abbreviate that RP) isn’t that fast and can be easily countered…but by throwing out that first rekka, now you’ve sort of mind-frozen your opponent. What are you going to do next? The second rekka? The hop-kick? The slide? A counter? Nothing? That momentary pause is often more than enough time to allow you to RP. If it hits, great, but if it doesn’t, you’re still in a great position, which I’ll cover shortly.


j.lk is a great, almost underrated attack. It has the angle and priority of Akuma’s dive kick, just without the actual diving. You should always use this for any meaty jump in, ESPECIALLY against a cornered opponent.

j.rh is also really good. She has mad reach with it. You can punish fireballs/pokes from 3/4ths of the screen away (perhaps even longer depending on who poked what). You may not always be able to combo, but sometimes just getting that hit counts. It also works as an unexpected poke by jumping straight up. You then clear your opponent’s poke range (vertically at least) and actually extend yours. This is something to be used carefully though, and definitely not in close range as you’ll be prone to anti-airs/VC’s.


Anytime you successfully land a rekka chain, ALWAYS finish with the slide. ALWAYS. It knocks the opponent down, keeps them close, and Karin recovers with enough time to keep the pressure on. Palm strike enders knock the opponent too far away (and Karin has a ton of recovery to boot) and the opponent can air-recover from the hop kick, which resets whatever pressure situation you might have had. Against certain characters, the hop kick ender can actually become very disadvantageous for you (Akuma and Gief come to mind).

Additionally, if done just right, rekka + slide ender will set up a great cross up situation. I’ve heard that if done perfectly, the cross-up j.mk is unblockable. …I don’t know about unblockable, but it will be very difficult at least. I’m no scrub at blocking cross-ups, but once I had a a-cho player hit 3-4 cross-up j.mk’s on me in succession with Karin.


As for A-Karin, be VERY wary of the hop kick -> kick super combo. It seems like her strongest offensive weapon, but it can backfire on her hard. I don’t know exactly how it works, but I believe that certain characters can neural flip after the hop kick and the kick super will actually completely miss. Any character in V-ISM can VC activate through the super, and then they’ll be all nice and shadowy while you are completely vulnerable. …This is especially dangerous in the case of V-Akuma.

While V-ISM is still the best for Karin, I think she can still put up a good fight in A. I saw an A-Karin player racking up a few wins at an a-cho tournament a few weeks ago. Concentrate on the punch rush super, and find ways to bait your opponent into it.


At certain distances, Karin has a few moves that are safe if blocked. …More than that, she recovers…and can attack.

Rainbow palm and hop hick immediately come to mind. If done just right, they will connect for a blocked hit, but recover in time before Karin can be punished. …Most players will REALLY want to punish these moves. Use this to your advantage. In A, you can blocked RP/HK -> Level 3 punch rush super. In V, blocked RP/HK, activate VC, c.rh xx RP, OTG 360, and so on. Or blocked RP/HK, activate VC, palm strike, etc… This is, IMHO, a solid strat.

The most common way to bait is in the rekka string. Especially if you do meaty s.mp, s.mk, rekka to lead into it. Do two of the rekka strikes, and then when you do the RP/HK as the ender the opponent will usually think you are done attacking. Most players will stick out an attack here - even if they don’t think they can hit you before you recover, they will still attack to try and make contact with Karin and kind of reset your pressure situation.

Outside of the rekka string, other ways to bait into this are the aforementioned one rekka -> RP/HK. Random RP/HK’s work as well, especially the poke HK.


#7

Great info :tup: some small things to add:

You can hit confirm into Rekkas after a meaty s.MP, since you can link a c.LK into Rekkas if you hit the s.MP deep. If they block it, doesn’t matter, just start her Rekka mixups.
I started using her “whiff one Rekka” mixups too lately. Her best way to set them up imo is a max range s.MK cancelled into whiffed qcf MP/HP + followup of choice.

Imo A-Karin has a very strong air-catch game (stronger than most), even without kicksuper, since her walking speed and normal anti airs are just that good. Gouki/Gief (and i’ll add Chun) can be tricky, but that’s where you usually use the kicksuper as a mixup to beat their attempt beating your usual stuff.
But you’re right, her slide follow up from the Rekkas into crossup MK is very strong, especially since she can combo it after every s.MP/s.MK at poke range (you have to be closer than that to combo into launch-kick). Slide finisher is probably the only way to go for V-Karin, her options after the knockdown slide are just too good.


#8

Yes, done perfectly, it is unblockable. And she is not the only one. If you encounter an enemy possible of doing it perfectly, then you start doing reversal special’s which takes you airborne. You get countered and then you can air recover. You just take the cross-up instead of a unblockable cross-up followed by a murder combo. (or with Sakura and Karin you even in danger of eating a unblockable cross-up loop.)


#9

I love Azrael’s Karin posts. Too bad the old thread disappeared.

Just to add, Rekkas can also be a good poke mid-range and are also very effective as a shut-down tool in the corner. They can really stuff a lot of things if your timing is good, and they keep you close while forcing the opponent back, which is great. Overall, her Rekkas are risky if you just throw them around randomly, but they can be a wonderful offensive tool (along with her hopkick) once you get use to using them that way. You can get sneak some damage out of a cornered opponent by delay-timing your Rekkas and starting up new Rekka strings in-between Rekkas.

Also, I had a specific question. When (if ever) do you find use for her :r:+:mk: overhead?

I’m always afraid to use it because it seems very telegraphed and very laggy (punishable on either end). Doesn’t seem useful for V-ism either since she has more practical/guaranteed methods of forcing damage.


#10

There was one thing I forgot to mention from before - use Karin’s sweep very sparingly. VERY sparingly. It’s got mad range, so a lot of people will be tempted to throw it out and see if it hits. The problem with this is that a LOT of players are waiting for you to throw out that sweep so that they can jump in on you. Since Karin doesn’t have anti-air, all you can really do is eat it.

Refraining from sweeping will tighten up your game by a whole lot. Anytime you feel the urge to sweep, go for the s.mk instead. This will take one air option away from your opponent, which is one of the places where Karin is weak.

This is a really good idea. I dunno why I hadn’t thought of it, but I’m going to start using that too.

One of the biggest problems I had playing A-Karin was against V-Akuma. V-Aku players would neutral flip, then VC activate, which ensured that whatever I tried to do would whiff. Then Akuma would land, in VC mode, with me probably in recovery from whatever I’d just whiffed. …Very. Bad.

To me, it’s a big gamble. You might get that extra hit in…or you might end up getting punished hard. I found that it was much better to land the slide, and then continue to apply pressure. That way the flow of the match was still in my control. I usually used her punch super, by either comboing it in or as a wake-up or baiting the opponent into it.

Man, I always use this.

I don’t know if it’s particularly laggy, but this move has stupidly good range for an overhead. Combine that with Karin’s walking speed, and you can even walk up to an opponent and hit them with the overhead.

Also, because of its range, you can knock down an opponent, move in as if you were going for a standing meaty, then before they get up move back a little bit. As you move back, your opponent will NOT be expecting an overhead. I use this strat quite a bit, and it’s fairly effective. Not abuseable of course, but I get good results.

While V-Karin does have better ways of forcing damage, this is still a good tool. IMHO, anything that does any damage is worth using. Plus, it gives your opponent yet ANOTHER thing to worry about, which works in your favor. …One of the things that made CvS1 Nakoruru so good was that after a knockdown, she could attack you from the four different directions (forward high/low AND reverse high/low) in almost an instant. Knowing this, a lot of players would freak out and try a wakeup/counter and whiff, which would give Nak free damage (and subsequently, put the opponent back in that screwed position). …I’m not saying Karin is anywhere near the level of CvS1 Nak, but if you can incorporate into your offense a gameplay that keeps the opponent off-guard, it works very well in your favor, as it did for Nak.


#11

I’ve been thinking a lot about her tick throw VC. I think the ideal way to set it up is off a cross-up.

First because you’re not risking any meter. The only time the opponent can Reversal (escape) out is before the crossup connects, and at that point you haven’t used any meter. However, if they get hit by or block the crossup, you’re guaranteed a throw so you’re not risking meter. EG. If they escape you don’t waste anything, and if they don’t escape you’re guaranteed a throw (thus, no risk).

Secondly, because it’s easier to confirm off a crossup. It also keeps you close to the opponent, so you can’t really be out of throw range. The timing/execution is also much easier than her OTG’s.

And lastly, you’re also throwing them the same direction you were facing when you started (ideally into the corner).

So for example, let’s say your midscreen and : Rekka->Rekka->Slide->crossup->Activate->360

If they reversal and escape the crossup, no worries, you didn’t waste any meter. But if they don’t reversal then you have them and can confirm into activation. So now you’re close to the corner and also throwing them toward the corner. That means plenty of time for some Palm loops and on into a CC setup.

Personally I think the BAS OTG and the tick throw VC are by far her most useful VC’s since they both practically guarantee damage. I think the BAS OTG is more for utility and the Tick VC is more for forcing damage after a successful knockdown/crossup.

In a way, the crossup into Tick VC is basically the same as V-Chun’s “Stomp Cancel” unblockable. It’s essentially: confirmable, unblockable, inescapable, and combos right into her midscreen.


#12

a question: i’ve had mixed results getting karin’s punch air throw to combo after a rekka -> hopkick string in the corner. sometimes, i jump up, grab them, it combos. great! sometimes, i jump up, they tech, i still grab them. wonderful! and sometimes, i jump up, whiff the grab, and look stupid. not so smooth. what’s the deal with this? is it character specific, or does my timing need work, or is it something else? do people even use this, i’ve never seen anything like it anywhere but if there’s a way to make it a gauranteed hit, it seems like a very solid finisher, especially considering it’s a ‘slam’ type throw so the opponent suffers alot of damage from it, tech or not.


#13

A lot of it has to do with the way the opponent flips. If the opponent flips forward or don’t flip at all, then you can grab them almost instantly when you leave the ground. If they flip backward, then there’s a short period of time where they will be out of range of your throw (roughly 8 frames, I think) before you can grab them. And if they neutral tech, then you won’t be able to throw them at all.

On a side note, Karin’s K airthrow can’t grab certain juggled characters in the corner at all. Her P airthrow seems to be able to grab everyone, though.

I think the best thing to do after a hopkick in the corner depends on if you’re in A-ism or V-ism. But for meterless followups I think it boils down to a guessing game. You could try option-selecting using a standing JP (or maybe j.SK?) immediately after the hopkick, but I really don’t know how effective that is.


#14

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I just wanted to ask if anyone had found any decent player 2 CC infinites for karin?

The only one I’ve found is:
palm thrust corner juggle -> jumping jab (while rising) -> walk cancel -> jump into corner -> jumping forward (crosses up) -> CC -> vertical roundhouse -> normal CC infinite.
After 8 hits it gets the opponent to the other side of the screen, where I assume it can be repeated, but I’ve never managed it.
The trouble with this is that it’s so diffucult to do it’s somewhat impractical in a real match.

Anyone got any other/easier ones?


#15

CC’ing vertically is harder to do than diagonally. But, IIRC if you’re able to CC vertically then you can do so indefinitely with Karin as P2. Problem is the setup.

You can do the combo you listed above, but when you get to the other corner you can repeat CC vertical j.RH instead of switching sides again.

Or: (VC2) palms -> j.JP -> walk cancel backward, crouch, [jump vertically j.RH, CC]xN

Or: (VC1) palms -> vertical j.JP -> [CC, vertical j.RH]xN

In general, when it doubt do an air throw for the slam damage. Usually P-airthrow is easier to land.


#16

why is it harder? just because of the execution? (ie. inability to roll from down to u/f)


#17

More than that, the timing is actually different, it seems it takes longer to land from a vertical jump, making the timing on some CC infinites impossible with vertical jumps.


#18

Yeah, in Karin’s case it’s both.

Sagat has the same issue on P2 side, and the same solution. CC’ing vertically lets him bypass having to do crossup stuff. The difference is that Sagat’s jump arc lets you be a little loose with the inputs (both CC’ing and attacking), where as Karin’s is really tight.

Claw, Chun-Li, and Ryu have other solutions that involve multiple crossups.


#19

That’s for the help Xenozip, I hadn’t thought about going back into a crouch after a walk cancel - you’re a star.


#20

I read everyones post’s and they’re all gr8. I have some personal karin VC’s of my own.

VC#1: HP/HK activate, 2 in 1 s.HK + HP DP, RDP HPmisses HP hits, repeat for 2 and a half sets followed by DP HP, RP OTG 360 HK. 10 hits

link combos followed by CH.

c.LP, c.MP or FP(has to be hella close for the c.FP to hit.)

and a meaty s.MP can be followed by s.LK, or s.MK(that’s a hard link to get especially the s.MK)

Crossup forward is really good but it can easily be walked under by sak almost anytime.

oh yeh about the Crouch cancel do i have to begin croching to hit the person with a jumping normal in the air? or can i jump and hit them and perform a crouch cancel?