vs Honda

vega

#1

what do you do in this matchup?

IDK if it’s just Honda being bad for Senior Vega or if the guy I’m fighting is really good (he had a few EVO seed points that he didn’t use), but this seems like a very retarded matchup

You can’t go in on Honda. Vega has very few options to deal with and punish Honda’s reversal options. You can’t Focus between the two hits of a Reversal Butt Splash (can you at all? I always get hit for trying) and 2nd hit is safe. MP and HP Headbutt can only be punished by far s.MK most of the time, so it’s not big deal for Honda. And if you get hit by either of these, that’s like 100-200 damage plus a knockdown leading into mixups. The only time you can work frame trap/kara-throw mixups without risking throwing the who game away is when Honda has no meter, regular headbutts are throwable (Splashing is still a problem them).

And that situation represents the matchup in general. From what I gathered, Vega is supposed to stay away from Honda and play footsies with him and try hard to keep the life lead (without it, Honda has no reason to go in and get poked). You can’t really sit on d/b to keep your charge tho, so you’re mostly just going to do like 60-80 damage per hit tho. Meanwhile, Honda has almost as good footsies and his correct guesses will net him anywhere from 100-500 damage. And like always,it’s very easy to for Honda to jump in on Vega and start working some decent 50/50s that leads into huge damage.

Walldive mixups never work on Honda if he knows how to autocorrect Sumo Headbutt every time. Sumo Splash also works very reliably. In non-wakeup situations, jump s.MK works almost every time.

Basically it’s a matchup where Vega tries to sit on a life lead, and it’s very, very easy for Vega to lose it. Vega can just scratch Honda, who has a lot of health and can take hits like a tank, while Honda can put a ton of hurt on Vega. And Vega’s footsies don’t give him such a huge edge in this matchup, especially when he gets jumped on for free. And the moment Honda has life lead, he can pretty safely tank it. So your best bet is to play footsies at first, get a significant life lead and try to win by time out and never, ever guess wrong because you’ll lose the life lead.

So what am I missing? I wish I had footage of myself fighting Honda for you guys to chew up.


#2

i’ve resigned myself to this matchup being lost… so in order to win i just must simply beat my opponent rather than the character. Pick up habits and abuse them. His weakest link is his headbutt. Smash can be dashed under or away from. but generally you’re going to want to do the opposite of honda. If he is on the ground and no charge you need to be in the air. If he is in the air you need to be on the ground… probably blocking. if he has charge you either sit there on down back as well or be ready to counter headbutt with jump back fierce into combo. if you lose the life lead and he decides block, you’re fucked.


#3

Hrm, well the Honda I usually fight, I’m pretty convinced is just better and more solid. He only does s.HK at a range where I get pushed out and can’t punish with c.MP, I will always get anti aired if i jump (and if I don’t then I can be sure as hell that he’ll EX Headbutt after I jump in, so either I hit a button and get hit or I block it and can’t punish it), I might be able to outpoke him for a while and get a life lead little by little, but most rounds one jump might go anti-aired or he’ll get one good headbutt or splash in and then he’ll be inside and able to work his frame trap-mixup game and I’ll quickly lose the life lead and can only get out by one really lucky guess. It honestly feels like one of those matchups where, I can beat a lot of random Honda players, but if the player using him is solid enough and does “everything right,” it’s virtually unwinnable.

So it sounds like I need to finally learn to counterpick.

IIRC Mike Ross once said something along the lines of “Japanese matchups are way different, and I swear in Japan Honda vs Vega is impossible [for Honda to win].” Anyone might know anything that I don’t? I’d be happy to hear about tech/strategy that I’m not using. I used to think that vs Guile was pretty much a losing fight for Vega if the Guile was solid enough, until I figured a couple things out that I could exploit.


#4

Joz probably disagrees with me but I think that the reason Vega beats honda in Japan is because there arent many good honda players in japan. it’s really the only thing I can think of. As far as anti airing you… dont jump if he has charge. if he’s beating you with normals change the range of your jump and make sure you’re either using jHP or jHK


#5

For this reason I dislike the fact that the old matchup guide was unstickied. It didn’t have many writeups of matchups, but it contained matchup-specific links to posts for a reason. It was made like that for the purpose of preventing people from actually having to skim through countless pages (I wouldn’t wanna bother with that either, tbh) and/or clutter the board with the same questions over and over.


#6

I used to think that honda was a stupid matchup for Vega until I figured it out.

  1. Make sure your AA is perfect
  2. Make sure you can deal with his focus attacks well. (I’m unsure if st hk breaks it, but I don’t think it does.)
  3. Know how to punish buttslam. (KKK flip will work if you start it relatively at the beginning of buttslam. If its not a reversal buttslam, then just focus attack it.)
  4. Know how to punish headbutts. (Don’t try to punish EX headbutts on block. Low attacks beat lp headbutt, so cr mk is good for that. St mk or st hp after a blocked HP headbutt.)
  5. Know how to karathrow perfectly. Never get closer than the tip of kara throw range.
  6. Don’t jump or attack on his wakeup.
  7. Don’t do any block strings.
  8. Play footsies the whole match and just kara throw him to death or let him kill himself.
  9. Use U2.
  10. Make sure you know his tactics on offense and don’t get hit by it. For example his st hk is a low attack so make sure you block low.

I know that st HK has been nerfed in AE 2012 but if its unpunishable, then st HK and cr mk are the way to go when attacking at around kara throw range. If you trade with st hk you can do a combo or just do another st hk. Cr lp and cr mp might have to be used instead if st hk doesn’t break focus or if it is unsafe.

That’s about it. Honda should not be able to outfootsie Vega. Not even close. And Honda does not do well with kara throws. Basically the whole match you should have a Honda getting beaten by footsies if he tries to play footsies. If he just sits and blocks, then you walk up and kara throw him. Every time on wakeup he may try to reversal of some sort so just don’t get hit by them. If you do a block string, then the same thing may occur, so no block strings. If he just sits there, then kara throw him.

I don’t own the game so I cannot test things out. This is just from what I remember.


#7

I don’t think s.HK (or HK scarlet terror if that’s what you meant) was ever nerfed. Vega got nothing but (incredibly minor and irrelevant) buffs in the 2012 patch.

But thank you anyways, that sounds very helpful. I can see why “don’t get closer than kara-throw range” is a solid strat. I will try it if I have to fight him again tomorrow. I prob won’t win but at least its practice.

One thing that always hits me is blocked HHS FADC Oicho throw. I swear to god that I’m looking at his bar, bracing myself for the mixing, start holding up when I see him dash, and I still get hit by it every fucking time. Is there something up with this throw or am I just sloppy?


#8

Are you playing online?
If so, there is your answer.


#9

No. I rarely play online for reasons like that. Also usually playing on ASUS monitors.


#10

that’s easy to avoid once you get used to seeing it. also use backdash so you have more time to punish.


#11

I am pretty sure that in previous versions of the game, st hk (Not scarlet terror) always hit twice on crouch block, whereas now I don’t think it does. That could be a huge nerf depending on what the negative is on block from the first hit.


#12

st.hk has no nerfs that i recall, using it as focus breaker against honda is not viable though, honda goes very low in his focus, the second hit of st.hk will whiff, leaving you on a one way street to crumple city.

st.lk into cr.lp, cr.mp or st.hk (4f moves to be quikest) to break is more viable but not without any risk, because he does have a tiny release window to (counter)hit or trade wich leaves you crumpled.