... Vs. Ryu.

c-viper

#1

This is a character specific matchup thread as per my suggestion here:

http://shoryuken.com/f315/suggestion-no-more-character-matchup-mega-threads-259159/

This will be the official thread for discussing this matchup. If at a later point, people come to a consensus regarding specific points of this matchup that should be in this OP, I will update it for quick referencing.

Here’s what we have so far coming from Kunai’s stickied thread (which is very old):

-lpTK and f.MP are both timed attacks to advance forward over/under fireballs (even super or ultra)

-If caught in a close range battle usually a simple back dash or a defensive c.mp to get your space again.

-You can try to trick him into playing with crouching shorts/strongs and f.MP or Burning Kick him. Can become risky because of SRK’s so try to make sure you have felt it out properly.

-Can play with Seismo a bit from full screen as with all FB characters, but this can also let you control the pace of the fight (especially if you get that knockdown).

More from Ryuga’s matchup thread

-Overhead and Light Thunder Knuckle can be used to go over and under fireballs.

-Can be Seismoed out of fireballs.

-Forward+roundhouse, overhead and Burning Kick hops over cr.mk and sweep and beats them out.

-However, Ryu can use cr.mk to lower his hitbox and make your Burning Kicks whiff.

-If Ryu player knows option select DP([media=youtube]nL2zpySSymE&feature=related[/media]) it’s best to just block.

-Is possible to use Burning Kick to beat out wake-up reversal Shoryukens.(see below)

[media=youtube]79Q7tfP3U7Y&feature=related[/media]

[media=youtube]DyeUKVbXVVc&feature=related[/media]
[media=youtube]XEt6BB5zpmQ&feature=related[/media]
[media=youtube]zklg_t7wxdM&feature=related[/media]

Get him to throw special moves or whiff normals. That’s the jist of the matchup. Another very baity matchup. Make him burn meter or whiff his shoryu when he has 2 meters and an Ultra. Otherwise you’re looking to get FADC Ultra’d soon. The match is in Ryu’s favor so don’t get too discouraged about losing. He already beats the crap out of your normals and on top of the move he uses when he doesn’t know what to do (LP shoryu) trades into Ultra and if he really doesn’t know what to do he can make his shoryu safe with FADC Ultra. Basically Ryu doesn’t have to respect your mix ups all the time like other characters.-DevilJin01

i tend to counter whore-ible (see what i did there?) Ryus by walking back and forth right at the edge of their c. mk range.-Flook


#2

I’m having big problems with Ryu’s zoning and footsies. Viper’s walk speed isn’t nearly as good as some people make it out to be. Sweep owns me. If I decide to let up on a block string and give him space to bait something (such as a DP, Low Forward or Sweep) walking back in his range sees me getting owned because it’s easy to react to her walking forward.

Also, the Ryu I play likes to use Tatsu to avoid my Seismos. LK Tatsu seems surprisingly effective. Eventhubs says the recovery is 12+5. What does this mean? Whatever it means, the move seems to recover almost instantly.

Also, if I’m ducking a Tatsu going overhead, what’s the most efficient means to punish it, with/without meter? What’s the smartest thing to do after a blocked Tatsu? I seem to lose there a lot also, since MK/HK is only -2.

What’s the most efficient punish for a badly spaced low forward fireball? With/without meter?


#3

Goddamn it, I posted this in the wrong forum. Someone please move this to the Viper forum.


#4

Good start so far. LOL


#5

:frowning:

lol.

I’m messaging Sosage.


#6

Ahahahahahahahaha

Anyway, there’s some stuff here: http://shoryuken.com/f254/new-viper-match-up-thread-227146/ I’ve been meaning to update it though, but I’m quite tired and I’ve got Juri stuff to work on as well, which I’ve been slacking on.


#7

Sweet. I’ll add it to the OP. Almost forgot about Viper’s tech jumping Forward Roundhouse.


#8

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6336/threaddie1000.jpg


#9

Are you going to split the post into character specific match-up information?

Like, although it’s obvious you’ve done a Viper section, you haven’t easily made that identifiable.

Honestly, I think character sub-forum match-ups threads are much more logical. All match-ups for one character condensed into one thread.

EDIT: Never mind, you posted this into the wrong forum.


#10

This is even more disorganized than the character matchup threads. :confused:


#11

I fail to see how that’s even possible. If you’re talking about the OP, that makes more sense. However, all I did was copy and paste disparate points pertinent to Ryu from two separate megathreads. If you’re just used to seeing spoiler tags and pretty colors - I’m sorry. That’s just not my style.

When an actual discussion gets started, I can categorize information into a more digestible format (punishes, option selects match videos etc). Right now, the OP is more a reflection of lack of said discussion. I’m more concerned about the thread existing than the OP. By all means, if you have a better example of how this can be done, start one somewhere.


#12

Guys, I know SF4’s been out for a while, but I’d really appreciate some help with these threads. Not all of us are veterans. I’d really like some detailed help regarding this matchup, if anyone’s willing to give it.

I’m going to update the OP with the Godgarden vids with Daigo and Uryo. Any other significant Ryu vs Viper vids you guys feel belong there?


#13

Actually . . . I would really like any more useful info too. This matchup sucks for me as well and anything else would be appreciated. I’m not the best viper player, but I try.


#14

My Viper has gotten much better recently and so has my experience with this matchup. What’s in the OP actually can help a lot.

Siesmo pressure really helps. If the Ryu attempts to zone you from a distance, you win, because while Seismo may be slow to execute, it knocks down. Any trades that aren’t EX Fireballs are in your favor. Assuming a trade happens at a distance, you want to apply Seismo pressure again, immediately, while Ryu is getting up. You can cost Ryu half his life just trying to get to you if your Siesmo game is on point.

One thing I try to do is resist jumping in on wakeup on Ryu. Not as much out of fear of DP, as much as I want to apply more Seismo pressure so I can train him not to use it. You can push him out to an optimal range (mid - just beyond midrange) so you can set him up to make some of the same mistakes (jumping, which you’ll be ready to greet with Fierce TK/Ex/Medium Seismo and badly placed Fireballs, which you’ll be happy to trade with assuming you have the life).

When Ryu is OTG, at ambiguous cross-up range, you can hit Ryu with a LP Seismo and be out of wakeup DP range. This is important, because you can apply pressure to Ryu, while training him not to DP. Once you smell he’s scared to DP on Wakeup, you can start jumping in for a different kind of pressure/more damage. Just be wary of Wakeup Ultra 1.

Of course, be wary of DP during your block strings. Remember that outside close st. lk x 2, cr./st. lp, and cr. lk -> st. lk, Viper has few true block strings. If the Ryu likes to DP during block string pressure (which he should, if he’s not he’s not playing the matchup well), you want to focus on baiting that when you’re on offense.


#15

You should try to play Ryu on the ground as much as you can, he easily dominates the air against viper since most smart Ryu players won’t try to fireball from full screen. Instead they’ll be wanting to neutral jump from about 2 or 3 characters length away since at this distance any air approach you do can be easily countered. Try to ground him by making him land on a seismo or anti airing if he jumps forward.

Once the match starts to play out on the floor you can try to play footsies against ryu. Some of the best options are trying to overhead his cr mk if he’s getting too happy with that and at that point you get a mixup. You can cr mp for the counterhit if you’re at tip range since you’ll beat out most of his normals or cr jab if you expect a jab mash. If the jab counterhits u can combo into cr mp and then tk. You can also flame kick if you expect a throw tech and just block if you think they’re dp happy.

A huge part of this matchup is fishing for counterhits using cr mp outside of it’s tip range to look for cr mk; on counterhit cr mp comboes into ex seismo. Also use cr mk a good amount into ex seismo since this will also combo on counterhit and they’ll have to block the seismo and won’t be able to jump out. If you make them block a seismo right outside of footsie range, meterless FADC to get close and apply pressure.

Always apply pressure intelligently, burn kicking at various angles and heights can beat out dps fairly easily. But it’s definitely not abusable due to cr mk. Use it wisely and sparingly so that it’ll hit when you do actually use it. There’s no safe jumps against Ryu at all, but you can land on his back from back and forward throw to stuff dps. The timing off the back throw is something you’ll need to figure out in training mode. The forward throw timing is pretty simple, you dash forward once after the throw, take about a step forward and superjump and roundhouse. When you time it right, they’ll get hit out of dp.