Vs. Seth

guile

#1

Hi all,

I’m new to the board, though I’ve been maining Guile since Vanilla. Pleasure to be here. Anyway, I usually run somewhere in the 2500pp-3000pp range so I’d like to think I"m reasonably ok with Guile. I know this would usually be a question for the matchup thread, but for some reason Seth seems to have been skipped over.

Anybody have any tips on him? I’ve been having some REAL trouble with this matchup lately, second only to Fuerte (and maybe Akuma, but most online Akumas suck lol). I just can’t figure out how to approach this match.

Obviously you’ll lose a fireball war against Seth very, very badly, so you can’t really make him come to you. But I’m finding it pretty hard to safely approach him, and even when I do get in, between his command grabs and crossups it feels like I’m at a massive disadvantage. It’s pretty hard to tell which way to block his headstomp thing. Plus you can’t crouch too much without running the risk of his long range overhead thing. And in the midst of all that I have to worry about his ultra too. Doesn’t seem like there’s any way to play “safe” in this match, so mostly I end up having to hope that I guess right or my opponent whiffs something so I can punish.

But against any reasonably decent Seth I usually lose soundly. Any advice on how to approach this matchup? Should I be trying to zone him somehow? Or if now, how to get in? And what to do once I am in?


#2

In terms of sweet spot, you’ll want to stay around mid screen, but just slightly out of his ex leg range (set it up in training mode if you’ve not got the spacing yet), so you can apply some pressure via sonic boom/backfist. You have to be patient in this match, because seth can get in on you and stun your ass real quick and like you said there’s no real safe way to play the match-up; it’s very much about reactions.

A lot of the problems you’re encountering (i.e. headstomp shenanigans and overhead punches) just take practice and experience though. So again, see if you can set them up in training mode.

If you have any video footage of your guile vs a seth, make sure to post it in the following thread: http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/ssf4-ae-2012-guile-video-thread-return-to-respectability/100200. I’m 100% sure you will get more constructive feedback!

Lastly, if you have any other Match-up concerns, please make use of the match-up thread, thanks!


#3

i’ve found that you’ve got to make the seth player aware that you won’t just let him jump in on you for free. this means you want to be on point with your air throw. st.mk is good against his wall jump dive kicks and what not, but the good seth’s will know not to use this. they’ll start to do an earlier dive kick…not to hit you, but to close in on you. if they try dive kicking you from closer range and you happen to be crouching, early cr.hp works. but from my experiences, it’s very hard to do on reaction (it’s more of a guess punish). the problem with this is that it’s risky. they can bait you into a cr.hp and whiff punish you with something like spd…then you’ve got to deal with a mix up.

i’ve found that no anti air is 100% reliable against seth though. cr.hp and st,mk win/trade/lose to his dive kick depending on the range and situation, whilst one problem with relying on air throws is that i’m pretty sure seth’s jumping mp and dive kick will beat it if they are already out there.

his sonic boom has lots of recovery, yours doesn’t. here’s where the opportunity arises to cause damage imo. if you’re winning, play at long range and ex boom his fireballs. if you’re losing, try to play at around back fist range. from here, if you predict a fireball, there’s enough time for a jump in combo.

in terms of ultra selection, id go for ultra 1 in this match. ultra 1 beats his dive kick clean.

the tanden mixup shenanigans are where you will have problems. if he’s in on you, you’re blocking, and he goes for a block string that you think is going to end with a tanden engine (something like cr.lp, cr.lk, tanden), you can punish him with a jump in during the tanden engine startup, or you can flash kick if you really want. i will say this right now though - this is basically impossible to do on reaction, you just have to guess. if he goes for an spd instead of tanden engine, flash kick will beat that too. however, if he does the same block string and ends it with a lp dp, it will beat your flash kick. same rules apply if he’s sucked you in from a tanden. if you think he’s going to spd, flash kick or back dash. if you think he’s going to srk, block. if he does a block string that you think is going to end with a dive kick, early cr.hp. he has a punish for everything you can do…and you have a punish for everything he can do. **it’s a straight up guessing game. **he’s got more tools, but you’ve got more hp. the odds are certainly stacked against guile though.

the way to beat seth is to guess right and max punish everything when you do guess right. it takes just over 3 bnb’s worth of damage to kill him. so when you think about it, one bnb, an air throw, a backfist and a couple of standing fierce’s are going to win you the round. stay patient, guess right, punish correctly.


#4

Excellent advice, guys, thanks.

Looks like I have to work on my air throw timing…I tend to fall victim to headstomp/dive kick shenanigans in this matchup, as well as his tandem mixup. Guess I’ll hit practice mode.


#5

I tend to not quick stand when I see a cross up coming. This can confuse him but its still risky business. My biggest problem is that his combos tend to put you in the corner and his head stomps can put him on either side of you.


#6

I watch for the jump ins or wall jumps and hold back in this one.
Jumping FP I find works well with him in the air and despite everything I go with U1. The damage to him if connected just destroys him. He has openings for it. Not many but they are there.
Despite how I play it the match is still tough as hell.


#7

I agree that U1 has it’s uses in this match, but I still think that you shouldn’t count out U2. If he goes for a wall jump and a boom isn’t already on screen, a well timed U2 will catch him whether he early dive-kicks, late dive kicks, or just comes in with a j.hk (in some cases). Mostly, U2 on reaction to divekick, EX flashkick if he doesn’t.

Either way, it’s hard to force him to wall jump without throwing a boom… so… I just pretend like I don’t even have an ultra in this match. Both of them are too hard to land, and if I’m thinking about landing an ultra, I’m not thinking about reacting to other, more pertient stuff.


#8

Advice giving to me from a really good Seth (Tekken Tim) was to play mid to full screen. L SB from full screen to bait wall jump, but buffer FK. (Charge, forward, down-back, release L SB) You will have enough time to charge the FK and use it as AA. Works really well. One thing to note, Seth’s ex dp will hit back dash and it beats everything. (All Seth players know this) Try to find a way to bait Seth to ex dp…Many high damage punish combos. I hate this match-up…I think its worse than Fuerte. I also use U1