Vs. Strategies

I’m looking for any kind of help for me to improve my Makoto. I’m asking for any kind of information for Makoto vs ____, pros and cons. Trying to develop strats.Thanks in advance!

there are a lot of good, existing threads with character-specific stuff… just take some time searching/reading the makoto forum :x

Now I do understand your comment (and appreciate it), but I’m not going to go through EVERY forum reading, scrolling through many useless crap comments about various topics regarding peoples thoughts about pho or popeyes… I’m trying to maximize my ability to play by obtaining information on how other people play against other characters as Makoto, and not just referring to SAI or II.

If you want advice from a no namer like me that doesn’t really play anymore, but plays about the same level as Ken I, but with lack of consistency in tournies as well, take whatever you want to get from me.

Makoto is the best offensive character in 3s PERIOD. So basically I play her like Kobe Bryant. I play her knowing all her offensive options where it may be gimmicks or just utilizing her above average footsies. Her defense is basically as good as Steve Nash, which is taking charges at best. But one thing similar to steve nash is that you can go from defense to offense in jiffy. So when I’m not on offense, the best defense is just blocking and waiting out the momentum in hopes to start your own offensive onslaught.

When it comes to characters you just have to utilize makoto’s strengths over the character’s defensive weaknesses. For big characters for example, you are more able to beat them with speed from the ground and better control of the air. Some characters might have good offense like akuma, but if you play good footsies, you even out or win due to his low stamina with footsies and some offensive spurts.

Basically what i’m saying is if you make use of the other characters weaknesses, it would basically be overwhelmed by makoto’s offense. Sorry if you don’t understand basketball terminology, but if you watch kobe or MJ they make good use of this for this analogy. On smaller players they post up and have an easier shot due to height advantage. Against big players on the perimeter they out quick them with speed. Some players have some solid defensive capabilities on these players, but kobe and MJ will always try to find ways to get their points. This is just the same approach with makoto vs other characters. Theoritically, Ken does best defensively against makoto since has more defensive options. He can dp, backdash, uoh, jump, mash, block, and parry. If you are a savvy player and understand what makoto is capable of your odds of coming on top is greater.

Now, I must say, I loved the analogies! Makes complete sense. But, actually, I know Makoto’s strengths and weakness. I know how to incorporate those against other characters. What I want to know is SPECIFIC strats that other ppl use against other fighters (hence the title…). I handle myself fairly well at tournies, but I’m not doing as good as I want to. I know most of my flaws and I’m trying to get past those. Adding the information that I’m seeking will help take me to my next lvl (cue FF music).

Ex. of what I’m asking - Vs. Akuma : Personally, I find myself fighting a see saw battle, going from heavy offense to extremely protective defense. I tend to find myself in the corner bcuz I fight Therapist alot (heavy offensive power w/ Akuma). Don’t attempt to parry dive kicks UNLESS you are 100% sure that will parry correctly, otherwise you will lose about 30-45% of your life, in one combo. Try to predict when he will demon flip to either Ex Fukiage or rh in air. Watch for kara throws/ c.mk after blocked dive kick (after backdash). When he has 2 meters, watch for unavoidable (when to late) Raging Demon…

This is what I’m looking for. Detail thoughts of other ppl when they fight Makoto Vs. whomever. Regardless of how much I practice, it will suck horribly when I can completely control fights against Ken, but get my ass whipped by well trained Ibuki’s (Devil Jin).

P.S. Therapist - That’s what goes through my head when I fight you, and then some…

i wasn’t trying to be lazy or rude or anything, sorry… you just asked a really vague question that’d require a loooooot of writing…

it’s not very difficult to just scan the thread titles and see things like “How to beat Yun!”, “Makoto Vs. Ken” “Chun-Li strategies?” etc…

to start, this thread seems pretty helpful against random troublesome matchups:
though er… looking back… i, personally, posted some pretty horrible advice back then, but the other players gave some really good insight :sweat:

i don’t think there is much information about makoto vs ibuki, though :x
in the rare occasion that i play against an ibuki, i try to play against the player and not the character, if that makes any sense.
pay attention if she likes to parry-bait in specific situations, be mindful of her DP… i dunno :stuck_out_tongue:
ibuki also has some sick anti-throw mixups… you probably just have to get raped for a little while until you catch on. unfortunately, there’s not a very good substitute for actual playing-experience. (<-- worst advice ever :wasted:)
i usually just fish for a knockdown and run my standard wakeup mixups and hope that her sad lack of hp dies out quickly

i think ramza might be the only one with info on makoto vs ibuki haha, but i suggest use sa1 and get some links for big damage and don’t get confused when she moves hella fast.

I’m guessing then that you have problems with non top tier characters. If thats the case, like i said before you have to know your other characters weaknesses. Against akuma or ibuki there’s not much you can do but play footsies, which is basically control the ground and air. Akuma and ibuki have ways of getting in, so you have to stop that from happening or they will do their gay mixup tricks. Like [’_’] said, fish for a knockdown. When makoto gets a knockdown thats where your chance of winning increases like a powerplay in hockey or something.

When it comes to specific strategies, i personally don’t recommend because then you’ll probably just use these strats like its makoto’s only option. Unfortunately it’ll take playing experience because you want to go with the flow of the game thus every once in a couple games you get a BS victory.

Thank you,face. That actually was what I was looking for, partly. Some of that stuff sounded like what to do against novice to intermediate players. My reference to Devil Jin and Therapist would be me talking about high level play (these guys tend to rank high in tournies, if you didn’t know). Also, whenever I get the chance, I play against Flare too (Ryu). As well,I find myself having problems with Exoduss’ Dudley. One day, I plan on MM Mr. Quotes, Makoto Vs. Makoto, but not til I feel I’m ready. So, I really appreciate that. It gives me some thoughts, but I still need more.

2hai : The whole reason for me to make this thread is to get various thoughts of strategies, so that I pick and choose what I’ll need for each situation, not to choose one strat and use it only. As like in chess, white can mimic black all day, until white checkmates black.

last time i checked if white mimics black, black can win in something like 3 moves >.>

Then black isn’t mimicking white. At some point in time black veered away and took his own path to victory…

you didn’t say black had to mimic white >.>

lol… my apologies. Black can mimic white all day…
Now back to the topic…

heh i didn’t know exodus played dudley @_@
i’m having some weird issue about
"Some of that stuff sounded like what to do against novice to intermediate players. My reference to Devil Jin and Therapist would be me talking about high level play" etcetc

you go into a match with (sometimes, very) basic knowledge of what’s good and bad against a certain character and the “high level” bit comes in with training proper reflexes/habits & out-thinking/out-playing your opponent (which isn’t something that can be learned on a forum, i think) blah blah blah
[that is only my opinion -_-]

& er on topic: if youre still looking for matchup info that isn’t readily available… specific-ish questions make everybody’s life easier :wasted:

That basic knowledge is what I’m asking, from a variety of viewpoints. Right now, I’m trying to develop a list of, shall we say, many various ways to approach a character. I told Therapist b4 that there will be a time when I can go toe to toe with his Akuma, consistenly, but get my ass handed to me by some scrub Akuma player. I’m trying to avoid that. Every character only has so many ways that they can be played. I want info on how other ppl play Makoto against those characters. So, for example, how do you play against Akuma? Compare that to what I wrote earlier (Therapist vs Me). Then maybe you will understand what I’m trying to say.

Er… pointers.

Akuma - Use SAI unless you believe your parrying against akuma is good enough to consistantly get you a SAII combo, but against an equally skilled opponent I find this hard to do consistantly enough to warrant using SAI. This is going to be a lot of seesawing like you said as Akuma’s offense is nearly as makoto’s, but remember like 1 SAI link and 2 more combo’s and he’s done. Just play him like you would another shoto, just block the divekick and look for a hole to dash out or parry out of his aggression.

Hugo - Use SAII as your going to build a lot of bar here. DO NOT DO ANYTHING BUT JUMP/BACK DASH AFTER A HAYATE, YOU WILL EAT A 360/720. DO NOT STAND NEXT TO HIM ON WAKE UP UNLESS BAITING A 360/720. Can’t stress that enough. Now you can do other things after some serious conditioning, but otherwise stick to jumping and doing a EX tsurugi (best poke in this match) until you think it’s safe to karakusa/whatever mixup you want. This is going to be a lot of poking and running around till you build up enough sense of safety that you can finally get in with a karakusa or something and get the ball rolling. But always remember when being aggressive 360/720 will shut you down.

Chun Li - SAI - Learn her frame traps and learn your options, which is probably the most important thing. This matchup isn’t nearly as bad as some others. Don’t be the guy who gets hit a shit load trying to move out of chunli’s optimal range and gets hit by 2-3 fierces. Once she gets bar you ARE going to get thrown, but keep in mind throw < hitxxsuper so watch out. She does have a reversal that can be stuffed by a wakeup karakusa which is nice when you do it. I spend most of this match acting stupidly outside of her distance and when i’m inside it back dashing and dashing back in to dodge attacks than punish with throw/hayate. Learn to punish b. FP with a Hayate and you’ll have a much easier time getting in by punishing some of her bar building.

Ibuki - Learn her resets or your going to get reset into oblivion and it will turn her otherwise dismal dmg into a serious concern real quick. She has really solid mixup so if she gets aggressive your going to have to block high quite a bit or you’ll get supered for some nice dmg. Your dmg/stun though will hurt her VERY badly so ibuki players imo like to EX reversal quite a bit so bait it and than you’ll link into SAI for 50-60% life. Easy matchup when you get to know her, but a good ibuki can be a nasty surprise when you don’t know what she’s capable of.

Urien - SAII - This matchup is definately in makoto’s favor but if you start being stupid it’ll be over real quick when he eats 70% or so of your life with one combo. Tech Roll EVERY time when he has bar or you’ll start eating nice unblockables of death. You can hit a MP Hayate after a EX hayate in a corner so keep that in mind. Can punish his sweep with FP Hayate so make sure to do that. Whenever you see him do a headbutt and whiff IMMEDIATELY back dash or jump-EX Tsurugi cuz it’s like a 90% chance he’ll throw as the setup is just sick. Reversal EX Headbutt (goes over cr. lk and beats karakusa) can be annoying when used during you hayate mixups and i haven’t found a real way of coping with it that i like except for blocking it, but against urien i don’t like blocking much when i’m mixing him up unless i think for sure he’s going to do it.

Oro- He’s annoying and i’m not sure really what i’m supposed to do here but i tend to beat him out so someone else should do this.

Yun - read the yun section in here.

Ken - This matchup is annoying as it all comes down to not letting him reversal you while staying aggressive. Figure out a good game plan for doing that and your good. I notice the vast majority of kens will reversal if you reset them in the corner the first time so try that out, just a personal trick i like to try to net some free dmg. I like SAI here and I think it should be used unless you can 100% stun, just cuz 50% of ken’s bar is to much to lose. Don’t fall for stupid cr. MP frametraps either!!! Play conservatively and make sure to get all the free dmg he let’s you have. Punish cr. RH with FP hayate.

That’s all for now. Some Necro help would be nice though. Good Necro’s are hella annoying. I tend to win just cuz my dmg and life is greater but Necro’s setups are hella safe without parrying and one screwup can mean 50%+ stun off a stupid normal throw in the corner.

:lovin::lovin::lovin: That’s what I been looking for! Especially, due to the fact that you are talking as if the person isn’t just standing there taking what you throw at them. Any thought or comments about anything that Sephiroth73003 said?

everyone just let me down…

if your corner defense is sub-par, consider using hk sa2 to escape…

c.mk is very good in this matchup. necro doesn’t have a very reliable counter-poke, as far as i know (as long as you aren’t too far from him//his outer-s.mk range i guess). i usually just turtle/zone with this poke until i’m comfortable enough with the opponent to get in his face a little bit. — buttt, there probably isn’t anything wrong with rushing from the start. just be careful, since b.mp+other random pokes can shut you down if you dash too much, and he has a nice assortment of anti-airs.

ex-fukiage will stop him from drill-kicking… also don’t get hit by his silly overhead moves.

also be careful of his b.lk xx s.mp xx super nonsense. b.lk is fast enough to stuff a karakusa attempt; like chun li’s c.lp. during a mixup i will high-parry->karakusa sometimes, just in case.

i don’t think that you can punish a blocked sa3. maybe if you’re really close to him, you can reversal sa1.

…don’t really know what else there is. makoto is pretty favored in the matchup, in my opinion

akuma: use sa2.

hugo: if you’re getting 360’d/720’d every single time you’re close, you’re getting predictable… and you’re letting him rape you. mix it up more. i’d suggest not to jump TOO TOO much, because that air grab will rape you. it stuffs ex tsurugis.

ken: getting reversal dp’d fucks with your mind and generally throws you off. just because you can’t 100% stun is no reason not to use sa2 vs him. if his c.rh is close enough, you can punish with c.mp xx hayate.

necro: i THINK you can punish blocked sa3 with c.mp xx hayate, and parry the 2nd/both hits of drill kicks and punish with s.fp xx hayate. if you’re in the corner, it’s extremely recommended to be on your guard with teching throws. one corner throw could mean you getting stunned.

edit: one thing to keep in mind as playing makoto, you shouldn’t create a high/low guessing game against an opponent, it should be a block or don’t block game.