Wake up *Reversals* not possible with every special/EX in SFxT? O_o?


#1

So I was testing wake ups vs meaties, & found that I couldn’t wake up “Reversal” (…you know, when the game actually tells you by way of that notifier caption, telling you that you’ve timed your wake up 100% perfectly) with every special possessed by my character.

For example, with Ryu, I recorded Hwo doing a dash up low RH, and followed by a meaty low FWD. Now, 10 out of 10 times I can wake up dp, but zero out of zero times can I wake up hurricane kick, or EX hurricane even. And that immediately struck me as odd. I can’t wake up with fireball (of course who would want to but why in theory wouldn’t that work?), but of course it accepts wake up *super *fireball.

With Kazuya, I couldn’t wake up Slaughter Hook/High Kick (qcb+P), not even once. But I could easily EX Reversal Slaughter Hook with any strength. So that led me to believe… “Ohh… in this game Capcom only wants you to have one wake up reversal???”, but then Kazuya, unlike Ryu, has an additional wake up EX Reversal; the EX Rising Sun (qcb+K). And Kazuya’s EX Demon Godfist (qcf+P), yeah… that doesn’t work either. = /

And let me stress that I’m exclusively speaking on the topic of wake up reversals. Of course out of block stun/hit stun can one “Reversal” time any special, any super, pandora, etc etc you get the point. But in my short testing, you get at most 1 special technique wake up Reversal options, at LEAST 1 EX wake up Reversal option, & 1 (or ALL… depending on how you look at it) super Reversal option.

I’m curious to see what you guys are seeing, because I can’t make sense of it. I didn’t play SF4 at all, so was it like this in that game as well? Or is this maybe some training mode glitch of some kind? In my method of testing does a meaty disrupt any “Reversal” special that lacks invincibility of any kind? But even so, shouldn’t they still give you the Reversal notifier? Because I swore I’ve on several times have woken up with EWGF in gameplay, but couldn’t reproduce in training. Or maybe my memory isn’t serving me correctly? Either way, I’m anxious to hear some input on this & feel free to go in & test, because I know this all sounds a little strange.


Spiders United - Juri Q&A and General Discussion
#2

Lili


#3

It’s always been like that in SF. What move is good on wake-up has to do with it’s frame data. What you are looking for in the frame data is Start up Frames, and Invincible frames. Ryu’s dp has 3 start up frames(3 frame start up is one of the fastest in the game) and it also has invincible frames where ryu cannot be hit during those invincible frames .

Ryus LK Tatsu has 12 frame start up, which is kind of slow and it will get beat by moves with smaller start up frames.

You can get a wake up reversal with any special move. It’s just not wise to do so with some.


#4

That’s not really news to me, but to further make you’re point here… are you suggesting that because a move hasn’t yet reached it’s hit frame and/or frames of invincibility allowing it to reach those hits frames, would the game not recognize that as a “Reversal”???

Because I did test without the meaty, and yes… all specials & EXs will give the reversal notifier. That doesn’t strike anyone else as odd? I mean… just because it doesn’t reach a hit frame in sub 5 frames doesn’t mean you DIDN’T execute it in the fastest & most perfectly timed manner… right? With that same execution, and if there were no active hit frames of your opponent’s waiting there on top of you, & they were instead completely across the screen, that Reversal caption would indeed pop up would it not? So why not in this case with the meaties? I mean… if you’re gonna get hit, you at LEAST want the satisfaction of knowing there was nothing you could do, you chose (for sake of this example…) the “BEST” option, timed it perfectly… but still lost out. Isn’t that the entire purpose of that notifier? It’s not to tell you that you successfully reversed (…even though it says reversal ironically enough), but instead to tell you the player that you in fact time your option as perfectly as possible. Right?


#5

Oh, ok. Sorry, I thought you were asking why some moves lost to meaties.

You want to know why the game doesnt give you a reversal notice on wake up if you get stuffed.

Your right that it is odd because in SFIV, you got a reversal notice on wakeup no matter what. In SFxT you just get a counter hit notice, if stuffed, and only get a reversal notice when left alone.


#6

Yeah, I agree that is totally what is going on here.

Also, I didn’t play SF4 but I can’t think of any sf that didn’t always give you the notifier if you indeed timed your special perfectly. shrug No idea.


#7

Ok, I just tested this in training mode. I did Ryu vs Ryu. I set the dummy to walk up sweep followed by a meaty cr.forward then block. I did wake up lk tatsu.
Here’s what happened. I get counter hit with the cr.forward.

Then I tested doing the meaty as late as possible without being able to jump out of it. I get counter hit with the cr.forward, but I also get a reversal notice, and I can hear Ryu say his reversal quote. Weird.


#8

Wait… by “late” you mean the low FWD is hitting late? By that I mean you’re hitting on the last active frames of the low FWD? Orrrrr… you mean you’re executing the low FWD late, so in essence hitting with the earliest meaty frames? Because if it’s the latter, then it technically may not even be a meaty at all? Because even if it’s not a true meaty, I believe you can’t always jump out of the attempt with all characters.

So again, if it is the latter (& it’s indeed not a true meaty), I think what’s happening is the realization we just hit upon: that the attack must… maybe not necessarily reach it’s hit frame[?](which it would indeed certainly would if given a few frames of breathing room by way of the not-so-meaty-meaty) but at least reach it’s animation cycle to yield the Reversal notifier & as well quote? Maybe that’s how it works? If that’s the case, that’s dumb, just give me the reversal.


#9

That’s what I tested first, trying for the latest active frame. I was not getting the reversal notice that way.

When I did the low forward late(earliest frame), I get the message.


#10

Yeeaaaaaahh, that’s what I was figuring. = /

Welp… it looks like mystery solved; how anti-climactic. ._.