“Mago proposes Balrog, Honda, Cammy, Fei Long, and Guile as top-tier. Especially Balrog. Nemo more or less agrees.” :bgrin:
Did you make a new thread to discuss Fei Long’s placement on the tier list?
Did that sound like a good idea before you posted?
Yesh! YESH! :bgrin:
dosent matter man. not like srk as a whole is in any sort of great organized shape. let it ride
on topic, mago must be smoking the crack if he didnt include rufus
I don’t quite agree with Fei being top tier but he definitely rose up the ranks due to the Shoto characters getting nerfed.
That said, I do agree with the assessment that there are many more fights that are character dependent than before. I also agree how some “top tier” have problems with some “low tier” which is how I think fighting games should be. All in all, I really like the balance in SSF4 compared to vanilla. It’s not perfect but I really can’t complain thus far.
I’m sorry but Japan must be playing a different Street Fighter.
Fei over Ryu, Rose, Dictator, Abel, Chun Li and others makes absolutely no sense. Don’t get me wrong, Fei is a great character and I’d play him if he was labeled Z Tier (hell, I play Dudley, who, somehow, is at the bottom of both lists lmao) but there is no way he has better match ups than those characters. Stupid things gimp his game, like cl.LP missing on crouching opponents and useless Ultras (this above all, since Ultras play a great part in this game), giving him 0 comeback potential. Really, is there any relevant matchup that is 6-4 in Fei’s favor?
In the end this just proves that Mago is indeed a tier whore. Maining Fei because he now thinks that he’s top tier.
But really, Dudley is bad? Gouken (!) is above Cody, Juri and Dudley?
The only thing in that list that seems general consensus are the five weaker characters: Makoto, Gen, Sakura, Hakan and T. Hawk.
Stripped of Ultra’s , I’d say Fei is better or at least matches the majority of the cast. With Ultra he’s just missing a few things as otori says.
Ryu and Abel to me are about even in my (short) experience.
OHH MYY GODDDDDD
We’re all tier whores! :lol:
I’ve been saying Balrog was the best in this version for a while so I’m glad someone reputable agreed with me. It’s good to see Fei FINALLY get the recognition he deserves. That makes me happy, even if the Global ranking has him lower… I’d put more heart in the arcadia one since Japanese players >>>>>> everywhere else.
Ryu, Rose, Dictator, Abel, Chun Li… none of those matchups give Fei a problem really. Rose is annoying but it’s definitely even IMO. Fei does well vs Dictator, Ryu he does well with now… Abel is pretty much free for Fei, and Chun, although challenging in it’s own right, isn’t anything worse than even.
So if you ask me, I think fei does deserve that spot. He gives a lot of characters trouble and goes even with most. The only ones IMO that are really difficult for him is like Balrog, Guile, and maybe Honda.
Dudley isn’t that good, neither is cody. They’re both pretty unsafe as fuck, too. Juri is definitely a mid tier. She’s not really good at anything, but not bad at it either.
Fei Long top tier though… Idk about all that.
Tiers list are so subjective lol. I’d never point Balrog and Honda as bad matchups for Fei, those would actually some of the fews that I’d make 6-4 in Fei’s favor (maybe I’ve had poor competition in those). Balrog is free on wakeup (meaties all day and the command throw gets a whole new perspective in this matchup) and against crossups. And Honda, well, Fei is one of the select few in the cast who can punish is headbutts and Ultra 2 is actually good here, since you can punish the butt slam. Only thing is that against him you have to play really defensive, which gets annoying. I my humble opinion, characters that give Fei trouble are good zoners and chars with awesome pokes, like Chun Li, Guile (well, everyone has a hard time against him), Dictator (Mago even played Sagat against this match up), Shotos (because of c.mk, specially in Ryu’s case and shoryuken threat during pressure) and Sagat (worst matchup in Vanilla, only better now because of damage nerf and slight buff to CW). So, as you can see, this numerous bad matchs would put Fei, in my opinion, in mid tier and nowhere near the top. Still, I think this is one of the most balanced fighting games I’ve ever played (if not the most) so there’s little to no sense in making lists as these.
Oh man, I think Dudley is godlike. Unmatched damage output, a comboable overhead, a ridiculously easy to land Ultra, the most number os specials in the game (I think), above average normals, etc. He has so many options. Cody is also pretty cool, I like the frame trap style he has going, can’t really say he’s a solid character though, since I don’t know him very well.
But still, placing Gouken, who cannot for fucks sake link anything viable, above these much better, solid characters seems ridiculous to me. Gouken has absolutely no hit confirms, pitiful footsies (can’t even combo a safe hadouken in a blockstring), is free on wakeup, has a weird back throw (easier to tech, which, in high level play will be done), and poor AA. Seriously, I can’t see anything that puts Gouken on par with the rest of the cast.
I dunno, Gouken does have some of the best fireball recovery in the game and he also gets a free ultra pretty much every round. He doesn’t have a good reversal and no good links but he’s not a combo character, he’s a zoning and throw mixup character. I do think he’s better than much of the cast below him so I can see why he was placed there.
But I do agree as balanced as this game is, a tier list is not needed.
If someone last year told me, you’re a tier whore if you use Fei Long, Guile or Honda, I would have laughed in their face.
It’s even weirder when you remember the general thoughts of these characters were during the capcom blog days when no one had Super yet.
“You gave Guile shades? wtf capcom”
“counter ultras. why does capcom hate fei and cammy?”
To people who say Fei’s ultras are useless:
U2 shuts down a lot of rush down game like Viper’s burn kicks and Rufus’ dives for free if your hands are fast enough or if you’ve got super yomi. Also I find that stretchy arms become quite the hindrance against it. Sim and Seth long range pokes become not such a wise thing to do.
U1 is a great fireball punish and does damn good damage. At 495 for a raw ultra, it is one of the strongest in the game. The universal combo j.HK > cl.HP x MK flame kick > FADC > U1 for 3 hits does 483 damage, which is very respectable, but here’s the kicker: j.HK > cl.HP x MK flame kick > FADC > HK CW 3 hits > U1 3 hits. It’s probably character specific, but it for sure works on Honda (I haven’t tested it much) and it does a whooping 553 damage, which is a lot more than respectable, it friggin’ hurts. Those of course are best case scenario combos, but the damage is still there. Just MK flame kick > FADC > HK CW > U1 for 3 hits does 480.
I think a tier thread makes for good discussion, so this is highly appropriate :wgrin:
Personally I don’t see Fei as A tier as he doesn’t particularly overwhelm anyone. Up close he can have a pretty mean pressure game especially with Tenshin on his side, though he still loses to good zoning and will have a large number of unfavorable match-ups because of it. Characters who can chuck fireballs and run away will be a bitch to fight if the other player knows to do that.
Fei is definitely NOT low-tier, however, and I totally disagree with the initial tier lists composed by iplaywinner for the first month or so of SSF4. With his crazy meterless damage output on a large portion of the cast, ability to open up turtles with Tenshin, and his general utility against other characters he’s a contender for B class. Considering we haven’t even seen anyone capitalize on Fei’s 400 damage meterless combo in real play, we may yet to see any true Fei Grandmasters.
To the majority of players out there, and even tournament players in particular, Fei is a new character to the competitive scene. Mago’s competition may also still be naive about the match-up even if they are “godlike Japanese players.” If we say that more time is needed to discover where the new characters fit, then perhaps more time is needed to discover Fei as well.
Thats all fare and well, but how many time’s in a game do you land a J.HK in a match (if any) and then have the meter to continue on to …xxxxx??
His Ultra’s can’t be combo’d into and Ultra 2 can very well cost you a round easily. Ultra 1 can whiff on certain match ups in certain scenarios, all in all, you’ve got to be dam certain of the ultra or your toast.
I’m not saying they are useless, but a great deal of care is needed, Fei’s Ultra’s can actually lose you a game.
Like I said in my post, if you would have bothered to read it, is that j.HK was a best case scenario combo and I even posted the damage off of a raw MK Flame kick, which if you can’t land an MK flame kick at all in a match, you’re not playing Fei very well. x means cancel in a combo string. And it’s only 2 EX for a single FADC, are you saying you don’t get 2 measly meters in a round? Really?
His ultras CAN be combo’d into seeing as how I just posted a damn combo for U1, and U2 does exactly what it’s supposed to do: counter. Burn kicks are easy enough to see coming, of course throwing them out randomly will get you a loss real fast, but when you actually use it to COUNTER a move, there’s no chance of failure. U1 combos aren’t even hard to land, and those certain scenarios where U1 whiffs are rare.
You don’t need to take any more care than anyone else’s ultras, you just have to know what you’re doing.
lol wow still with this Ultra argument. THeir matchup specific nothing to argue about. As for Fei being top tier, hes probably mid or mid-high at most.
It’s not even a matchup discussion, someone called both of them useless and Highlandfireball jumped on as saying they’re bad. It’s not a discussion of “hurr hurr U2 is better for X,” we’re talking about how good his ultras are at all.
their both good, whether or not they know how to use it is another story. If HIghland thinks Fei’s ultras are useless than it just means he doesnt know how to use it well enough. In comparison to Ryu’s DP FADC Ultra, damage isnt too far apart if you practice how to HK CW 3 Hit into it let alone it nets you more stun and pretty much corners your opponent once you land it.
As for U2, its pretty much used to aid in Fei’s more difficult matchups like Viper, Chun, Dictator, Akuma, Rufus. Once you have it, their options to rush you down are fairly limited unless their willing to also take a risk of eating the ultra. You can get baited, but that doesnt mean his Ultra sucks. Its the mind games it gives rather than whether or not you can actually land it every round.
Exactly my point.