I agree. It’s already a guessing game regardless once he’s in your face. Just can’t be too overzealous about reversals or challenging certain areas.
Haven’t ever fought an Abel who blocks after step kick, so I’ll continue to do throw/lk.ruffian all day until I’m proven otherwise lol.
I like to neutral jump sometimes. Not often though because he might hit you during your prejump and get a grounded combo if his timing is really good. But they never do falling sky punish even when it would work and NJ MP/HP usually beats his crHP depending on timing and it’ll punish a whiffed TT unless he did HP TT which recovers crazy fast for a command throw (39F recovery. His HP TT is only 45F total, that’s faster than LP Criminal Upper!)
I like the NJ option at times also since people would rather go for TT over falling sky. There are times I will get clipped by the first hit of cl.HP though. But you are right in the sense that no one ever seems to go for falling sky.
The abels I play usually do cl.hp to anti air a NJ, I very rarely go for it, although if it trades with NJ Hp it’s gonna be in Cody’s favor I guess.
It’s a common problem for Cody, he lacks an option that counters crossups both quickly and effectively due to lack of invincible anti air, terrible backwards walk speed, and lack of a crouching anti air that covers above him except for crHP on last active frame only.
Jump back LP/LK work very well and are probably your best options. I’d say they are better than MK as they are much faster but that’s just my opinion. NJ LK can work if he is above you. NJ MP if he is in front of you.
On the ground you can try and slide under him and swap sides, his grab will still snatch you though if he timed it properly but it requires his timing to be more strict. close HK is a risky but viable option as is far HP. Both are somewhat slow but reach pretty high up, much higher than B+MP. Far HK works alright but tends to fail more as the hitbox is much farther forward and if he manuevers in mid air to be directly above you or crosses up it’ll fail.
EX Zonk works pretty decent bu t as you noticed you gotta be strict on the timing and it’s a big risk because you might end up going the wrong way and burning a bar for nothing, maybe even getting punished for it.
All in all, that blind spot to crossups is one of the bigger weaknesses in Cody’s neutral game and one of the reasons we wanted a backwards walk speed buff so much.
Wait until you start dealing with Vega’s j.HP. Then you’ll really see the issue with Vega jumping along with wall dive crap.
Re: this video:
So every time at that range Cody is cr. jabbing, he’s buffering MK Ruffian to be ready for a confirm? Is this a piece of tech that I need to incorporate into my game instead of just LK pokes -> LP Criminal Upper? Is this important for other matchups too?
cr.LP buffer into MK ruffian is pretty important that helps a lot to implement into your game. Cody’s Jabs are already extremely good and you’re bound to hit/stop something that gets thrown out eventually in neutral. buffering into MK ruffian gets you a knockdown, gets you in, and gets your pressure started. Just off controlling your frontal space with a jab. It’s very helpful in the bison matchup. It’s a helpful tool for Cody in general.
cr.LK is still great to use because it’s a 3 frame far reaching short. Doesn’t mean you stop using it for a poke in the mid range game.
crLK and crLP have totally different reaches and uses. crLK reaches farther, is faster, and hits low but has a really bad hurtbox that gets stuffed very easily and has less hitstun. crLP has a better hitbox and is less likely to whiff with a MK ruffian or LP Criminal Upper buffered but doesn’t reach even close to as far and is much slower.
One of Cody’s better strengths is that he doesn’t have to rely on a single poke sequence. Granted he doesn’t have any dominating options like Ryu’s crMK - fireball sequence, he has a lot of very solid options and is much more versatile than most characters in what poke and buffer he can use. This makes it so if you play smart it’ll be harder for the opponent to get a read on your ranges and patterns. With Ryu for instances you generally know where to stand to fight most of his standard moves (sweep, crMK buffers, crMP, F+HP, all of these cover some what similar distances. F+HP/Sweep being a bit farther and crMP being a bit shorter but they are all PRETTY close unlike Cody’s crLK/crLP/crMP/farHK/F+HK/F+MP/F+HP which vary pretty widely.)
Does the ex. ruffian double dash j.hp fake cross-up in the corner still work in ultra? I know they fixed unblockables but what about reverse blockables.
Think it works, I remember landing the Guile one and Ryu one.
So I fought my first decent Poison on sunday at my local arcade, gotta say it feels like a struggle for Cody…
I found it very hard to get in despite being able to slide under her full screen fireball and her neutral game seemed kinda hard to deal with (bare in mind I didn’t know what range to stand at straight away).
Her cr.mk has decent range and kinda keeps you from being at your optimal range, I wonder if charging zonk alot is decent in this MU to go through cr.mkxx fireball?
Do not fuck with her HP fireball (shoutouts to @ADN2), it has long start up but really good recovery and if you land on it she can juggle U1.
If you try and react with ultra the fireball can either hit you out of the ultra after the dust hits, or the fireball will absorb the initial dust hit and let her block the ultra.
Here’s some positives I found:
You can U2 her overhead if blocked, also her sweep.
You can punish her first rekka with cr.lk if blocked (although it takes some getting used to cause of weird blockstun).
Her Dp is super easy to punish if you bait it. (You can literally jump to punish it pretty much all the time.)
Anyone else have any tips/findings for this matchup?
Man… it’s hard to even say Poison’s HP Fireball has “Long startup” the thing is a fucking monster. 70damage 20meter on startup/hit, 23F startup 40F active 20F recovery +6F onblock +10F on hit AND it moves her forward when performed to let her combo out of it. It’s literally Cody’s LP Badstone on crack lol.
There is a spot you can throw out here HP Fireball and do a jump in combo without an FADC or needing to follow behind the fireball for a long time. Literally just throw fireball -> jump -> both combo. Keeping in mind Poison has a long jump time (same as Rose’s) too.
I play poison and personally I think this match is fine for Cody. Like Rose, Cody can hold Zonk for any of poison’s followups off cr.mk/cr.mp/st.mk. If Rekka’s block, it’s -5 and even from maxed range I believe Cody can still punish with cr.LK. You can focus all those followups besides love me tender (qcb+K) as that’s her focus break. Which is where the mixup comes in after blocking one of those normals.
normal > LP Rekka is a true blockstring. But the range of LP Rekka sucks so it’s a free punish on block/whiff.
meduim/hard normal > MP/HP rekkas aren’t blockstrings unless on hit with the same strength move (so something like hit confirm cr.Mk>HP rekka isn’t going to hit because HP rekka startups is longest of the rekkas. But cl.HP>HP rekka will hit. Basically hit confirm medium normals combo into MP and LP rekkas and HP rekka only combo off hard normals.)
normal > EX rekka is also a blockstring IIRC but EX rekka has the further range and has LP rekka startup.
Only way you’re generally making rekkas safe against Cody is if they waste meter to FADC.
Her fireball game while great, is still lackluster. It’s her best tool but you have rocks to match them. You can keep up with her in the fireball war. The only edge here is that Poison doesn’t have to play the fireball game because of love me tender (will just say LMT from here on.) LMT helps her get over fireballs. In order to counter that, you need to mix up your rock strengths. Because you can knock her out of it with rocks. Just keep that in mind. If she wants to play the fireball game, let her. Throw rocks, gain meter. She’s more than likely going to make a way in anyway (and her fireball animation does mover her forward a bit.)
Generally Poison shines when she has you in the corner. Expect the fireballs to fly and consantly fly. But Cody doesn’t really have to respect it. If you have meter, charge EX zonk or use EX upper. normal>EX is an actual blockstring in the corner and she’s plus after it on block so don’t challenge her. Anything outside of that go for it. Even if she does HP fireball and it trades with your choice, you get some breathing room and you’re out of fireball nonsense.
you can test the poison player on their AA game but if they don’t have it, jump in. Her notable AAs are cr.HP (the usual go to), far.HK, cl.HK. cl.MP, s.MP, j.MP, j.HK, U1 (if they have the reactions.)
j.LK crosses up so be weary I guess. IMO it doesn’t have nearly enough hitstun as it does in SFxT so they have to do it heavily deep to combo off it.
Her DP is ass. Just neutral jump or block it. This isn’t SFxT.
I’m not sure how many people use it in this game but her backflip is easily OSed if they try to use it on wakeup. The range was nerfed from SFxT so she goes nowhere. Now that Cody has a walkspeed buff you probably don’t even need to OS it but simply walk her down.
Honestly just play a good neutral and once you either get it or get a knockdown (or stop her from doing something she shouldn’t be doing) maul her. She has 1000 health but her reversals are bad. She loses to rushdown.
A few notes about things you’re wrong or I disagree with, Shin.
Rekka is -4F not -5F. Also EX is -3F. Regular also spaceable so that only crLK can punish. EX Rekka range is very deceptive. You can actually do it from so far away that Cody’s crLK wont reach to punish it on block.
EX Criminal Upper is a terrible idea because she can do block strings from a distance where EX CU will whiff first hit and lose to her fireballs. crMP, crMK, farMK, farMP buffered to LP fireball or MP fireball done at near max or max range will beat a reversal EX Criminal Upper or even a delayed EX CU. EX CU only beats the HP FB option.
Many of her normals beat regular zonk free. crMP, crHP, crLK, crMK, crHK all beat zonk during upper body invincibility frames, only go for EX Zonk.
MP Fireball is almost as much of a threat as HP. It’s a true block string from heavies and is 0F on block and Poison’s crLP is 3F and can combo to her clsHP. Doing crLP - clsHP - MP Fireball - crLP is a 3F frame trap followed by a true block string followed by a 3F frame trap while chipping and it’s very easy for her to make her MP Fireball hit ever so slightly later so that it’s + on block but it wont be a true block string then.
You can KIND OF keep up with her fireball game but she’ll win it, it’s more important that you put her into a pattern of comfort and then surprise her with an EX Ruffian.
LP Fireball = 44F total (same as Cody’s LP)
MP = 43F
HP = 42F
EX = 37F
LP = 44F
MP = 46F
HP = 48F
EX = 40F
As you can see, Poison wins this hands down. Framedata wise, damage wise, meter building wise, and active frames she beats Cody in every category except for the speed the fireball actually moves. That is the only saving grace Cody has in this situation is that his fireballs move fast enough to intercept Poison’s before he loses a lot more ground in a war. If Poison is smart about how she uses her fireballs she can easily win any fireball confrontation. She builds 2x as much meter from fireballs as Cody and throws them faster. The catch is watching out for Cody’s EX Ruffian kick at specific distances.
Her anti airs are way way under explored.
farLP is a good anti air.
crLP is a solid anti air
crMP anti airs but tends to trade.
closeHP also antiairs
I haven’t found one YET but I feel like she should have a crossup jHK setup at least in the corner.
I don’t think this is in Poison’s favor, at the moment I feel the match is about even. However it’s certainly not in Cody’s favor.
completely forgot about cl.HP and s.lp for AA. I dunno about being underexplored. People just aren’t using anything outside of cr.HP most of the time with a little of j.HK/jumpback j.HK. (which is great if it doesn’t trade because it’s special cancels and sets them up landing on a meaty HP fireball.) I also remember hearing her overhead (f+MP) also does pretty well as a AA since it has a rather huge frontal hitbox.
the -5 I keep thinking of SFxT frame data. So that’s on me.
Yeah I was testing with her overhead and it works decently but the catch is: it’s REALLY slow as an anti air goes (as an overhead it’s plenty quick enough). However the nice thing is that it tends to go over the hitbox of the opponents attack as well as has a good hitbox of it’s own. Probably the most situational of all of her anti airs.
NVM Poison has a nice big fuck you to Cody now thanks to me accidentally finding one lol. This could easily shift the match. She can safe jump + mix up cody with a cross up or not situation.
Back Throw - Immediate Jump - JHK will hit crossup on only Cody and Blanka. Plus vs Cody it’s a 7F safe jump meaning she blocks both EX CU and EX Zonk, and if he backdashes she is still in range to punish it during the recovery. It literally is a fuck you SPECIFICALLY to Cody. I wasn’t even trying to find that. I was trying to find safe jumps, was testing her back throw and thought "hey, this kind of looks like it might be a 6f or 7F safe jump. Let me try Cody since I know EX Criminal Upper is 7F) and then my recording hit crossup on him and I was like “seriously?”
Has anyone got any ideas for getting out of Hakan’s oil dive loop? I tested it out and I could only do Ultras so far to get out of it.