We just lost our sweep

ken

#1

2012 is changing kens sweep back to 8f start up. wtf capcom? was his one frame untechable knockdown combo which was weak and only worked on standing opponents really that broken for us to have it removed?


#2

pretty sure everyone discussed this as soon as the change was released.


#3

i looked and couldnt find, can you link me?


#4

Doesn’t matter, adjust.


#5

it does matter, from super to ae capcom nerfed out air ex tatsu, our cr.mk and our dp’s frame data. in a trade we got our cr.mp and sweep improved. the sweep being comboable set ups an untechable knockdown and more mix up opportunities. for example ken can jump off of one spot on your wake up, and do the following:
hit you from the front and combo into a dp knock down or sweep and continue pressure
empy jump and attack low into a dp combo or sweep and continue pressure
hit you from the front and tick throw
empty jump and throw
cross you up with a lk tatsu and jab into sweep and continue pressure

losing sweep means now i cant set up an untechable knockdown, and if i do a lk tatsu cross up, i cant turn it into a knockdown set up because i land to far.

super ken traded overhead property on air ex tatsu, nerf of frame data on cr.mk and added recovery to dp’s for comboable sweep and we just lost that sweep in 2012, and we still lost those other things. all we got were some useless damage buffs and buffs to moves which are useless.

super ken> 2012 ken


#6

Player >character…Adapt.


#7

{Lex Luthor}WRONG!!{/Lex Luthor}

Comparing AE2k12 Ken to Super Ken.

Improvements

st hk is now viable for footsies (No one thinks Sakura’s st hk is crap and this is nearly the same now)
vastly improved target combo in dmg, hitbox and being able to delay it.
c.mp > c.mk now possible, c.mp > c.lp now a 2 frame link
20+ dmg for ex shoryuken
3 frame quicker thunder kick feint (Better for FTK mixup after F.SRK and now useable after EX DP)
ex fireball full juggle
120 dmg on LP DP, up from 100
imp hitbox on cl st.lp

Nerfs

EX Tatsu doesn’t hit overhead.
LP DP has 2 more frames of recovery
loses 2 active frames on c.mk

Still 1 round of changes to come (prob another +10 dmg on EX SRK lol) And don’t forget that a lot of the nerfed Super characters are still not as good as they were in Super. Guile? Nope. Honda? Nope. Boxer? Nope. Chun Li? Nope. Cammy? Not even close.


#8

Ya u could do all those mixups to most of the cast from a straight f.dp anyway. I truly think it wasn’t completley game changing for ken except for some match-ups like makoto. Now we have better footsies, a way better frame trap (were damn neaAr able if tc is buffed as much as it sounds) and more damage


#9

someone needs to play with this new Target combo S.HK and faster RH.OH fake already! I wanna know how good they are already!!!


#10

#11

The nerf to cr.mk isn’t nearly as bad for ken. Its huge for ryu cuz now he can’t cr.mk xx fireball anymore Which is huge. Its still a great poke and ex tastu cancels almost just as well. And the l.dp should have never had recovery like that anyways. And u could still use it to build meter. U just can’t be close to someone which sounds like everybody elses meter gaining moves. The ex tatsu thing wasthe ex tatsu was def a nerf. But I still think its a great move considering that u could link anything after it including full ultras. And in super every once in a while pressing cl.st.lp wouldn’t hit if you timed it wrong. And unless u hit with the first knee of ex tatsu in a lot of combos ex srk already does more damage. And imo f.rh is already a alright move with the buffs I think it will be great. And the ex fireball thing was like a wtf buff why would they give us that, althought f.dp fadc ex.fb ultra 1 in the corner was nice looking, and I always had a hard time hitting the air ex tatsu u1 in the corner.


#12

this is still on potential

If Sakura’s is more than viable in footsies than Ken’s is viable as of AE2k12.

Sakura/Ken AE/Ken AE2k12

110 / 130 / 130 (Dmg)
10 / 12 / 11 (Startup)
15/ 21 / 18 (Recovery)
0 / -6 / - 3 (Frame Adv on Block)

dont remember reading its damage being raised, but no one is sure yet what this means

Dmg went from IIRC 90 in Super to 130 in AE
I think being able to delay it means you instead of going MH you can press H any time the MP is active? Maybe even recovery?

id rather use ex tatsu as it still is more damaging. and if i wanted the knock down pressure, id save my one bar and use a regular fp dp.

You forget a lot of combos with ex tatsu is too far spaced out to hit with the knee so it loses a portion of it’s dmg. Also the opponent needs to be standing… I’ll copy paste G77’s post from the Ken thread.

Ok, done some maths, and here’s the breakdown for damage implications with the new EX DP (200 damage). This includes all the correct scaling and assumes that you are getting far.st.lp and not cl.st.lp as the third light attack.

  • 2 light hits to hit confirm (works on entire cast):*

  • cr.lk, cr.lp, EX DP = 210 damage*

  • cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mk, EX tatsu = 217 damage (standing opponent only)*

  • 3 light hits to hit confirm (spacing and character dependant):*

  • cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lp EX DP = 214 damage*

  • cr.lk, cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mk xx EX tatsu = 210 damage (standing opponent only)*

  • Crouching HP links:*

  • cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp xx EX DP = 290 damage*

  • cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp xx EX tatsu = 249 damage*

  • I don’t know what the stun value will be for the new EX DP. It might not change, so I have left stun off for now.*

  • Thoughts? I’m definitely liking the EX DP ender now. The oki will be much scarier and you’re not directly in your opponents face (like after the Ex tatsu) and you can play safe if you intend to. Certainly has potential…*

  • Comments guys?*

  • Peace,*

  • G.*

And with the new quicker feint you can get the exact same mixup after EX.DP as you can now with FTK after F.SRK.


#13

Look, all changes that lessen dmg suck, but there’s no pont bitching. Adapt your style and move on. If you find Ken is now broken for you, get another character. The game is what it is.


#14

The only real issue I’ve found with Ken now is that if I hit c.LK > c.LP too far away, then I can’t fall back on c.HK to keep up the pressure when HP shory will whiff.

Anyone know any other options that would suffice when at this distance? Or should I go for c.LK > s.LP from now on? I haven’t tested which characters s.LP hits on crouch yet.