I’m interested. Pacific time.
Silver Rain, I’m totally with you on the “drama” and “upset” factors, but you’re going to get that simply by having the tournament. Just look at the video from Evo.
You’ve been in a tournament before, right? Remember your first one? Didn’t your nerves produce enough drama? I know they did for me! Trust me…you get quality players in there (and you’ll get more of them if they feel their skill level matters when they enter) and you’ll have the drama you seek to produce.
Plus, to quote something I said in a thread regarding a SF4 tournament that was being put on that banned (ahem) “cheap and repeatable tactics”, when you look up the word “tournament”, it’s an event that supposed to bring out the best competition level in a player. The rules should be such, as I’ve said before, that skill matters more than a fluke dizzy into a combo ending with a super (and we know good and well those happen…and I’ve had a few, too).
(And, yes, I still say ToDs FTW ALL DAY, BAY BAY!!!)
Not usre if I understand the scoring, correct me if I’m wrong:
Winner in best of 3 gets 3 points
Loser (wins 1 of 3) gets 1 point
Loser (wins 0 of 2) gets 0 points
Was also wondering whether the winner of a match will be requried to pick the same character for the next match in the set? Thats the way its done at evo…
You are completely right on the scoring for pool play. I’ve given alot of thought to the same character thing. I definetly think that has to be the case when we get into tournament play, and I think we’ll play it safe for the first season and say you have to keep your character if you win.
And OJ, I want to thank you for your help in refining this process. I think you’ve been right on a couple things and that’s why I’ve changed how pool play works. When we get into tournament play yes I believe it’ll be pretty standard. My thought was that pool play would counter-balance flukes over the course of so many different matches while allowing for drama but then the lag issue came up and other stuff and I had to concede that point so you’re comments have really (not joking) been super helpful and I want to thank you for helping me refine this process for everyone’s benefit… now are you going to play or not??? LOL
First, it obviously has to be more than one game per opponent. As people said, 2 out of 3 is minimum.
Next, the whole bit about play a game with an observer, leave and rejoin to skip past observer’s turn, play again, etc…is how you’d do it if you want the observer to record matches. If no one is recording a particular match or if one of the players themselves is recording it, there is no need to go through all that. In theory, you’d need someone to verify the match result. In practice, you don’t. I am not aware of a single time in online Street Fighter history that someone disputed the match results. Maybe it’s just too ridiculous of a thing to do in a small community, not sure why it’s never been a problem exaclty. Anyway, you don’t need an observer to slow the whole process down, just to protect against something that is so unlikely.
Next, two things about character picking. 1) Do you have to keep your character if you win, during a given set against a given opponent? Yes, and no one will disagree with that I’m pretty sure. I have never even heard of a tournament that violated that rule.
- Can you switch characters when you face a new opponent, and when you lose versus your current opponent? To me, this must be yes for it to be a “real tournament.” Otherwise, I don’t think the tournament is really valid in determining a rightful winner. Consider this situation that actually happened in GGXX. I played Chipp and Potemkin in casuals against the field before the tournament started. I won slightly more with Potemkin. Against a particular opponent, I lost like 10-0 with potemkin and won like 10-0 with Chipp. But that’s just one opponent, in general I won more with Potemkin. Because the tournament used the bad kind of rules, I had to declare my character ahead of time and stick to it. I did face that troublesome opponent by luck of the draw, even though I can beat him around 10-0 if we are each allowed to pick any character, I lost. I don’t feel this reflects who is better.
Or in SF terms, imagine if I could beat Thelo’s honda 10-0 with Ryu (not saying I would, but imagine). Then tournament rules force me to commit to one character and I pick Fei Long or something. If Thelo defeats me, that seems very unjust. In the example, he is incapable of beating my Ryu. To actually deserve to defeat me, he should have to: a) learn how to beat my Ryu with his Honda or b) learn how to beat my Ryu with some other character. But choice c) remain incapable of beating my Ryu, but advancing anyway because tournament rules prevented me from demonstrating that I cannot lose against him would be a dumb and unexciting choice. (Note to everyone, thelo is just an example, not saying he is bad or that he can’t win in reality.)
As for pools vs double elimination, maybe either can work.
What would happen if EVO made you only choose one character for HDR?
Xbox Live: St1ffPeter
Time Zone: MST (GMT-7:00)
Anything to help the fighting game community, my friend.
As for me, I’d play if I was actually subscribed to XBox Live. One day…
Juuuust in case you didn’t realize it, Silver Rain, Sirlin just gave you pure gold advice here. Being able to change characters when you either start a new match or lose while in that match is absolutely key to getting accurate results. The tournament should demonstrate the player’s ability, not just the player’s ability with one character. I, for one, would absolutely hate being stuck with one character since I know how to use all of them to a certain degree. (Plus, I’d get just plain bored…but that’s not really your problem.)
I’d go on, but I’d just be repeating what Sirlin said, so…yeah…what he said.
Well of course you can switch when you change opponents, and you can change inside of a set when you lose. I.E. Best of three games, I win the first, I have to keep my character for the second, i lose the second, i can switch for the third and final game. (I guess I see where this might not have been clear).
Each result in pool play will be determined best two out of three games with appropriate scoring as discussed earlier. Observers will be necessary if (hopefully when) this gets large enough so that we have a group of people who may be dedicated to recording matches. I have a pretty grand vision for this and I know its going to start small and have its bumps as it gets off the ground but it’ll get refined and I hope people really enjoy the experience.
So I think in the end, I’m not really changing any conventions here except adding a league style pool play to qualify for a tournament, or when it gets larger, into a more elite pool that will lead down to a final tournament.
ANNOUNCEMENT: We officially have our time zone eligible for pool drawing, NICE JOB TO THE EAST! Interestingly enough, the Euro League is close behind, then Pacific, with central and mountain bringing up the rear. The moral of the story, we need more people from everywhere. Also, if there’s not enough in a time zone, we’ll move people to the timezone west of their location, eastern to central, mountain to pacific to be more accommodating to schedules.
ADDITIONAL EXPLANATION: So if you’re in pool play and you are going to play 7 different people, you could play as many as 14 different characters. Ryu, Ryu Loses, E. Honda (Game 1) Blanka, Blanka loses, Ken (Game 2), etc. etc. I think this is what people were looking for and I think this is what works.
It would be great if someone could set up a site or something with the pools, results, and later on, the brackets. That could be asking for too much, but it would really go a long way towards making this thing quite “grand.”
Ill give this a shot too
Sounds fun, GT: Smooth4200
I’m down to play.
Put me in PST if you can. AZ does not observe DST, but it should be on PST and my connection to the west is good.
Oh I’m working with someone on a website right now, where we’ll post pools, have links to our World Warriors Youtube page (which at some point, maybe season 2 we’ll get more recorders available) and I plan on having a weekly highlights show a la (a cheap) sports center where people will talk about results, have ‘highlights’ and prognosticate on future matches, how pools may fall out and such. When it gets larger we’ll do the pool draws on the show, announce tourney brackets, etc. maybe even have interviews with players, get statements, just like a real league.
I forgot about AZ. Indiana didn’t used to observe DST, but then we changed…the one decision I really haven’t liked… we’ll put you in PST.
BTW, this latest batch of PSTs makes PST the second group which can field a complete pool. Nice job guys! Keep it up!
Sounds good. Hope this thing really takes off.
I’ll join in if you want me.
I’m Euro though so it’s up to you if you feel the pools can be arranged in a good way
Gamertag: Sweet Poison
Central Standard Time