What are your difficulties with kaisen and fse?

Hey all. Just wanted to start a conversation on the matter. This is not a thread to start an ultra 2 vs ultra 1 debate. I’m asking what are you problems with the ultras. What is stopping you from using them more effectively? Both are really strong and I think it’s best to pinpoint your issues and have a clear path for improving.

So do you have problems executing into ultra 2? Do you not know setups? Does the situation not present itself?

Is fse hard to control? Do you fully understand what it can do? Is it too hard to pinpoint your objective? Do your combos drop? Do moves whiff?

This is the thread to let it all Hang out an together well improve.

The only real problem I have with U2 is doing cr.mk xx l.fuhajin FADC U2 from Player One side. Im much more consistent on Player two side. On P1 side I get FADC EX fuhajin or U2 comes out but it’s blocked. I have the same problem with Oni and Evil Ryu doing cr.mk xx fireball, FADC U2. The motion on P1 side seems so unnatural to me. I have been practicing since Super and it’s frustrating. Then I have some days when I can hit it without even thinking. It’s really annoying. Maybe it feels weird to me because I started with Akuma in Vanilla, and he has no FADC into Ultra or any double fireball motions.

I drop combos in FSE. I just need more time with it in training mode. I need to learn how to open people up. Im too predictable with my overheads when I play with someone who actually knows how to block. Im pretty much a one trick pony in FSE.

With ultra 2 I’m fine as it was my ultra of choice thru most of super and ae. I wish I could Tk dive kick so I could get it in Footsies easier, but I’m pretty good at managing meter to land it off various fadc’s and air to airs…

I been using ultra 1 for the majority of 2012 to really get used to it…I love it but I know I’m not utilizing it to its fullest potential. I respect the idea of it being one giant mixup and mind fuck so I really wanna get solid with it. I feel I don’t keep it fresh enough in match though… ill get in auto pilot and forget to sekku or attempt a sekku too late in a string when its unsafe, I’m tryin to be mindful to go for it after lk,lp cause I notice most people are just blocking waiting on a Long string to block… the thing that irks me is when ill hit a string and I get far Hk instead of close hk and I have already buffered the pinwheel and I get punished in the gap, or if I sweep and don’t cancel into store fast enough and it slips out, but I feel that’s just executional and will go away after time…I am confident to use meter and fadc out of pinwheel and gettin back in there off a counter hit that gets me in there against a lot of online players

I don’t have many setups memorized or worked out on the timing enough to pull out in a match so I feel that holds me back a lot not just with ultras but with my offense period outside of basic cross ups and overheads I know I’m not nearly as dirty as I should be and that’s what I’m working on the most right now

My problem with Ultra 1 is that I get incredibly predictable, it doesn’t seem like I know what chains put me at what distance or which moves tend to trick people up and give me an opening. My execution is also overall pretty poor so that interferes with my U1 game. I honestly haven’t put any time into learning it though, if I did I feel like it’d be something I’m good with and it would up my game a lot. I really just prefer the simplicity of U2, once I upgrade to AE though I will probably put a good amount of time into utilizing U1.

My problems with U2? None I guess. Every now and again I whiff off a j.mp that lands at the wrong height. I can FADC into it, but I generally prefer to do another combo off my FADC to keep the momentum of the fight.
Every once in a while I’ll accidentally use EX Fireball when I mean to Ultra but that’s mostly because of my controller/lag.

Good thread, imo.

Gj kail liking this tread thus far.
FSE i need more practice. I know what to do with it in some cases such as activating when i have the life lead and making the opponent respect me. I just gotta work on the links that’s all.
@Fatal Takes time man. I’ve been working on it since super and i can do it on the player one side more than i could like a year ago. You’ll do it too. Just gotta churn the butter harder. Atm i’m working on stock>Negative edge u2. that’s fun stuff lol XD
@D.R.E sharing the same issue in terms of fully using u1. I know what to do with it that works for me, but i know the move can do far more than just activating it.
@Shine that light When i activate with u1 i try to walk first and let them run away first and eat space then dash in once to make them go WTF DID SHE JUST DO. Getting to dash happy gets you eating counter hits, which i hated when i first was using 2012 fse. Just gotta play with their mind. That dash scares people, use that to your advantage in terms of mind games. You don’t gotta land a hit on someone whose mind is blown they’ll make a mistake or freeze up for you to do something ie a grab or overhead.

@Kail per your request i am working hard to perfect fadc u2 negative edge in the corner. The most i can milk outta that is 512 damage =D. It’s just too good, making me wanna go back to u2…

With Ultra 2, I just suck at FADCing into it since it’s not like a Shoryuken FADC where you have unlimited time to pull off your ultra. I can get it, but not consistently yet. I like to use Ultra 2 on matchups against characters with extremely strong wake up games and I find myself being able to use it often through j. mp or (on rarer occasions) EX dive kick. I remember watching your GimmeDem points vids Kail and I think I’m gonna practice fuzzy guard setups against larger characters as well because that is so sick.

Ultra 1, I don’t really have too many issues with. Since cr. lk comes out so fast, I either use that against wakeup (into a knockdown combo), do nothing, or a sekku combo if I know my opponent likes to crouch block a lot. It all depends on the tendencies of my opponents and by the time I activate Ultra 1, I have a fairly solid idea of what my opponent is going to do on wakeup because I pay attention to that kind of stuff a lot. FSE sekku resets are probably something I should practice a little more though I if I know that my opponent isn’t going to die in one or two FSE combos.

I feel my problem with Ultra 1 is what the correct setups and combos are, ive been watching every video possible of juri players including kail, jro, etc… and all the step ups ive seen for atleast ultra 1 are a tad different from one another. Some may overhead into s.lk>s.mp>s.mk>s.hk > ex.pinwheel > s.hp or like frame trapping with cr.lk>cr.mk>cr.hk. Another thing about FSE is most people are starting to now just watch out for that one overhead to block, what others are there besides that one overhead? from situations like this i always feel like i should just run ultra 2 and just hope someone just jumps, gets j.mp, and gets punished hard…

On ultra 2, like others as well FADC from any pinwheel into ultra is pretty hard still for me atleast. Ive gotten down fadc from fireballs and lvl2 focus attacks from fireballs into ultra 2 down pretty easily. besides from just fadc from pinwheel to ultra fadc from pinwheel into most combos i feel is sorta hard. Another thing is using U2 to punish moves properly… i never seem to get the right moment to just give a nice punish to others from their mistakes using ultra 2, seems to always be a cr.hp into h.pinwheel.

@kail i wanted to ask, from that one video that was posted on SRK’s mainpage about how you use you juri, i was wondering if you consider on doing one for how to FADC properly with juri or the tactics you use for ultra’s in general in 2012.
@juri_kills_friend i was wondering if doing a negative edge fadc into ultra easier then just hitting all 3 kick buttons?

Try this combo.
cs.mp>release fireball>lk pinwheel>fadc>Cs.mp>stock>negative edge u2.
This is a good combo to help push an opponent that is close to the corner and you get a decent amount of damage if you have full u2 stocked around 450 damage. Cs.mp is 3 frames which should be easier to connect after the fadc lk pinwheel and then you go into the motion of the u2 and you nail it. To be honest i find fadc u2 easier than the negative only because i’ve been doing fadc u2 since super. Negative edge is still fairly new and i’ve only recently redabbed into it. I suggest the best way to practice the negative edge is just stock and do the negative edge motion. Then move on to doing a move and stock such as cs.mp to stock to u2. Just make a regiment for yourself and see if you can hit it 10/10 times and i’m sure you’ll get the hang of it. Once you get the basics you can do fancier more damaging stuff such as cs.mp>stock release> cr.hp>stock>u2 (no meter required)

Ultra 1: I don’t know when to stop pressuring. Add that to my predictability, and I eat wake up and mashed out SRKs all fucking day. Also I need to practice on store/using fireballs while in FSE. I seem to get the mindset of “I’m in FSE, I don’t need fireballs anymore”.

Ultra 2: FADC Ultra 2 on Player 1 side. I’m starting to land them in training room, but it is no near the level to where I can say “yeah, I sometimes land it”. Shit still like “HOLY SHIT! I landed it on the left side”. I also need to work on realizing when catching Ex Dive Kick into on the tip will make Ultra 2 whiff. And I need to do NE Fireball Charge > Ultra 2 without spamming the hell out of the quarter circles. I mash so hard on the quarter circle buffering that there are like 4 or 5 of them before I do KKK.

I’ve been working on FSE more and more recently. At first, I always seemed to go on autopilot and pretty much always going for a sekku even if I got a hitconfirm sometimes.
Now I’ve been trying to include releases FADC (midscreen), going to lows and store resets. Also I never know how to start the string, I’m always hesitant to start with a meaty / sekku / nj in fear of reversals.
I have a lot of annoying execution issues with it that I want to fix. I got better control of it recently but for these last days, I can’t get the normals I want. I’m getting highs normals instead of lows and vice versa. And ending with hk store instead of scl.hk / sweep (inputing the QCF too quick). It frustrate me, guess I have to train, train and train it all nights to get it back.

So far I need to work on FSE :

-my stupid execution
-diversity on strings, gotta stop getting predictable (my friends know they can mash or jab the overhead and one day it will be the resets)
-know setups and learn them
-mixing with throws, right now I’m only pressuring and mixing
-character specific strings, gotta stop whiffing scl.mp on Viper after a sekku :confused:

I can use ultra 2 but I’m more interested with FSE, it’s more fun and always guaranted to activate it
I have good success doing the lk release FADC ultra 2. I’m also loving to store ultra in the corner. The only way for me to land it is by doing a hitconfirm in the corner. I do it by doing the store, holding the 3 kicks and immediatly when the opponnent starts to fall down, I input the 2xQCF and release the kicks. I learned to time the QCFs and it works pretty good, mashing the QCFs always fails for me.

In the end, there’s some nice ultra 2 setups but the oportunity to use it isn’t like FSE

The timings (I still often do it too early) and cues needed for U2. I kinda need a list of things that it can punish, as well.

The do’s and don’ts of U1 activation. Alternately, I may just need some OS’s/safejumps learned so I don’t get my U1 eaten by reversals.

is there a easy way to know when to hold the other kick buttons? is it after the fadc or would u say moment the upkicks come out you hold on the rest and go all for it?

You do it right after the store started. Least confusing for the fingers and there’s plenty of time.

Ultra 1 is an ultra that I was never really too keen on. Yes, I know I can chain my combos with it and that there is a comeback potential with it but I feel I am in the same boat as Juicebox on it to be honest. That and am I more of footsie based player as opposed to stylish combo player ( not that I don’t know how to do some combos ) Granted, my view on it in AE2012 has softened a little bit because of that insane dash but when there is a video of me on youtube literally walking into Chun Li’s ultra 2 while trying to position myself under Ultra 1 then yeah, that kind of put off using Ultra 1 seriously. Guess it doesn’t really suit my playstyle and I’m OK with that ( this also explains why I got rather annoyed when the first Ae2012 change list for Juri came out but like I said, my view has softened on it after messing with it for myself. )

As for Ultra 2, I have it down pretty well at this stage. I know how to c.mk> low fb release > FADC > U2 ( and like others, have issue with doing it on the P1 side which is something I’m working on ) I can also do j.mp > j.mp > U2 and j.mp > ex dive kick > U2 as well ( though I sometimes still get the timing wrong. ) Negative edge is something I will need to work on as well but right now, I am generally happy with the options I have to land it at present and will in time and with practice, be able to open up even more options to land it.

To everyone having problems with ultra 2 on p1 side… What is happening with your failures? Are you getting ex fireballs?

When I use Ultra one, I play like an idiot. I know they’re going to dp, but for some incomprehensible reason, I just keep pressuring. I play really recklessly when using it to, I try to get in at all costs. Even after a knockdown, I always accidentally let my opponent escape.

And for ultra “This is the end for you!!!” I have issues landing it. I can get low fireball FADC 80% of the time in the training room, but out of it, it’s more in the area of 20%.

I need to work my overall execution with Juri. I’m trying some basic set-ups such as negative edge U2 in the corner.
I play in the PS3 controller and I absolutely can’t do FADC U2. Always ends up in blocking or a EX fuhajin release.
Another problem is that if my execution isn’t perfect I don’t take risks into doing that in a match.
If anyone could provide tips, I would thank a lot.

That or when the ultra comes out, it’s too late

Same with me. It just feels very awkward doing it on the P1 side.

This is the most common 2. Ex pinwheel or late. What I suggest is simple. Slow down and aim to get ultra activation… Not activation and hit. You’re inputs are sloppy and you have to clean them up.

So This is what I suggest. Concentrate and think about doing the ultra. What are your hands doing? Close your wyes and don’t hold the stick. Do the motions in your head and in the air. Look at your hands through your eyelids and try and follow the motion if the stick and see it visually. Did it look like qcfx2?

Next try fireball fadc and try and reset your hand going for the qcfx2. Most people hit f f and make a garbled mess of an input landing on df. Make your input for the fadc and reset your hand to down. That’s it that’s your training.

Once you have that… Do fadc then ultra… Slowly and precise. Even if it’s slow as hell. Do the speed that will guarantee activation.

After that you slowly increase your speed until you get it.

100% way to hit ultra 2