What is a lag abuse chun? (A3)


#1

#2

Since no one can answer the first question I’ll ask another. I hear [COLOR=white]Chun [/COLOR]is a broken char in a3. What exactly makes a char broken or what does it mean? I’m trying to comprehend with some of kaillera’s finest scrubs in what they believe to be the reason they are losing. I don’t take them seriously, because I don’t believe the decisions they make that lead to them losing during game can be justified by what a decent player said about chun being broken or unbalanced… I also hear Guy Gief and Adon are broken.


#3

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=98736

post #6 is of particular importance.


#4

Uh. I guess I could see how 'Gief is somewhat broken since he has way too much priority in the air, and when you add in his high damage VCs/kattobi cancel, he’s a very tough character to beat, but I’ve never heard anyone complain about Guy being overpowered and Adon is actually fairly low tier.
Adon can be somewhat easily abused on higher delay settings online however, because it’s hard to properly punish jaguar kicks/wall kicks.

Offline A3 tiers are something like:

Top
V-Akuma, V-Dhalsim, V-Sakura, V-Zangief
Upper Mid’
V-Sagat, V-Chun-li, V-Vega (Claw), V-Charlie, V-Ryu, V-Sodom, V-Karin
Mid’
V-Cody, V-Rolento, A-Gen, V-Juni, A-Guy, V-Cammy, A-Bison (Dictator), V-Ken,
V-Rose, A/V-Adon, A-Balrog (Boxer)
Low
V-Dan, A/V-Blanka, V-Honda, V-Birdie, V-R. Mika, V-Juli

The thing with Chun-li in A3 is that like 80% of the cast has a bad match-up against her, because she has massive speed/range/priority and her jump MK goes through almost all ground anti-airs except reversals. That’s why shotos do well against her.
Online, all her fast, high priority attacks are hard to punish/stuff, because you can’t time your own normals properly in advance because of the delay. So you just end up getting hit over and over again, or you block a lot and end up getting backed into the corner.
That mixed with her fast walk speed, means you end up getting hit by a lot of brainless tick throw mix-ups.
She’s very light on combos as well, so she’s very beginner friendly character-wise, and she’s one of the few A characters who can compete with V-ISM.

Basically, Ryu, Sagat, Sakura, Akuma and Ken do well against Chun’, because they can DP her out of the air at a moment’s notice and they still have plenty of other tools to go along with that.
Almost everyone else struggles, because she gets free jump-ins on them.
Characters without reversals have it especially tough, because they don’t have any way to alleviate her poke pressure besides activating.
Things are different if you bring V-ISM into the equation but…

V-ISM in general is greatly weakened online, because:
A) It’s hard to time activations properly (Good luck activating through Chun’s normals on anything less than LAN)
B) It’s hard to finish a VC without dropping someone because of delay/spikes

B) especially hurts crouch cancel infinites, since 99% of the time, you drop them or they flip, because lag messed up your CC timing.
Shit like this is why I don’t play on anything besides LAN or P2P anymore.

The kicker is, she has a tiny ass hitbox as well. Tons of stuff goes right over her head when she’s standing and it’s even worse when she’s crouching. For example, I can’t activate into MK ruffian on her crouching FP with Cody, because I go right over her.
Also, some things that are normally guaranteed combos, aren’t always against her. Combos are much more spacing dependent with her, because her hitbox is so thin.


#5

i think this tread is kinda crazy. i mean in all reality. there are chars in a3 that are just well…online. it sounds crazy but there are just some chars that pepl pick in a3 online for the sole purpose of trying to get a cheap win. honda, chun, geif and blanka. somtimes even adon. offline is a whol diff ballgame.but it is tru. just my opinion from playin.im could be wrong though. but i have much love for chibi. she holds it down and u cant hate on that dog.


#6

scrubs will say anything as long as it makes them feel like they’re not weak. they don’t give a shit about their own character’s strengths, if your character’s strengths are very noticeable then they call your character overpowered or cheap, it’s as simple as that. Chun Li is one of the characters that has highly noticeable strengths, so’s Zangief. some people even say the same thing about Blanka.

if you want to understand a scrub, don’t try to understand their logic; understand the reason why they say what they’re saying

[edit]why the hell would you want to know why they think it anyway?


#7

So what exactly does the PLAYER (user) contribute to chun being a broken or cheap char online as well as lag abuse? [COLOR=white]In other words, how does one become a lag abuser or make their chars appear to be broken. I did read the other thread btw.[/COLOR] Now I’ll disregard that 80% of her matchups and stuff, because I don’t believe a char can be cheap or broken on its own (and not saying that you said that to make chun to be cheap), but more so a player utilizing or “abusing” certain moves or attacks that would be considered lag abuse mainly when the victim (opponent) has to counter or defend against chun.

A prime example would be someone like Aures using gief. Hes one of the giefs I actually struggle with and even though he uses autofire hes fun to play. If he ever gets the slightest chance he will body splash me with crossups left and right. I believe this is considered a natural abuse of lag with gief because of the moves properties. Not that I’m complaining or reinforcing that theory because I can actually deal with it, but I can understand that a lot of players who try to counter it and need precise timing don’t get it because of delay thus the tactic being lag abuse maybe?


#8

It’s possible that normal Chun tactics become even stronger in lag, taking a very good char, and making her broken. Some guys suffer more from lag then others, and I think A3 suffers a good deal from it. I’ve found that I enjoy A3 somewhat offline, but not at all online.

A3 has some very weird/stupid move properties, similar to KOF 2k2 in that regard but worse, which also may not help matters out any.


#9

People should probably use the new MAME .117 for A3. I used the old .64 on LAN recently and it ran like the new MAME on good setting.


#10

Yeah, I definitely notice a difference between 0.64 LAN and 0.117 LAN.


#11

Offtopic (or on?) and just out of plain curiosity…what’s the purpose of this pic?


#12

wondered that myself :rofl:


#13

Pic is off topic.