What is the most powerful or important tool for a character to have in your opinion?

What move or option do you feel is the most important to making a character strong or more competitive?

An invincible anti air?
A move to alter your jump arc?
A fast hit confirm able low?
Combo to ultra?
Long reaching relatively fast two hit normals?
Combo to hard knockdown?
A projectile?
Fast Walk speed?
A fast invincible reversal option?

What option do you think is the single most important of the tools available in SF4?

Are there any tools you feel should be universal? Such as having a 2 hit normal. Or having a hit confirmable low. or a chainable light attack.

just one of those doesn’t make or break a character, but a combination of tools. I don’t think you can say that if a char has a specific tool, it automatically makes him good/competitive.

Deejay has most of those and he sucks.

Projectile with short recovery.

I guess that makes Gouken and Cody gdlk

Yes the combination is more important. That doesn’t mean that one tool can’t be considered to be more important than another tool for a character to have. Or are you saying that Deejay would be better without a projectile or invincible reversal?

Also I didn’t say that a tool could single handed MAKE a character competitive. I asked what tool you think is most important to make a character strong or MORE competitive.

Abel has only the hard knockdown and combo into ultra, but he kicks ass against midtier.

Good pokes.

-Have a good anti-air? What good is it if you can’t force people to jump through your poking.
-Good ultra? Need to FADC into them anyway, unless on punish.
-Good fireball? Meh. Many characters have fireballs in AE yet only a few are actually useful. Only Guile and Sagat can win purely off fireballs for the most part.
-Fast walk speed? Not as useful if your pokes suck.

dive kick obviously

Good pokes don’t seem to help much in a vacuum

Chun has great pokes and still sucks

Official Bison pressure

LOL, these replies are hilarious. Seriously guys just answer the dude’s question for what it is.

Very good question. My opinion: I would have to go with a fast invincible reversal option. Unfortunately you did not go into enough detail when describing that option (which is understandable since it’s a very complex thing to describe). There are many types of fast invincible reversal options, some more useful than others. Some reversal options such as dp’s also have the additional use of being excellent anti-airs. Invincibility can also come through the way of an armor point such as Abel’s EX COD or Balgrog’s EX punches. Some ex throws could also be considered invincible reversal options (which brings up the question of what exactly is it invincible to, everything?) Another thing this brings up is the amount of meter required to initiate this type of reversal. Another thing to consider is whether this reversal is able to be fadc. If so, this makes it very scary since it can be both safe and invincible on defense while being safe and invincible perhaps on offense as well.

The most powerful form of this is the generic shoto dp b/c it is motion instead of charge, can typically be used as anti-air in addition to reversal, comes out very quick with generally good invincibility, and can generally be fadc which provides it with both extremely powerful defensive and offensive damage capabilities.

I know there are many exceptions to what I just said as I was speaking very generally. I also know that just because a shoto dp is very powerful, that does not mean that shotos are therefore OP. I think shotos happen to be pretty well designed/balanced in this game. But every once in a while their strengths will bring out the raging demon in me.

Edit: If I was to say anything should be universal, it would most likely be a two hit move. Every character could possibly deserve some sort of normal or special to deal with focus attack. Yes, every character does have a special move to deal with it, but some just stink at that. Yes, some characters have very fast walk speeds and can literally just walk up throw to deal with it. And yes, I could be completely wrong about this and some characters might actually become OP if they were given two hit moves that deal with focus attacks. It’s possible that weakness against focus attack could be the only balancing a character out… Tough questions indeed!

  1. Dive kick
  2. FADCable invincible reversal
  3. 3f pokes leading into damaging combos

-3 frame jab
-Combo into Ultra (initiated with said 3 frame jab)
-Fast walk speed and excellent pokes
-Godlike anti-air
-Big damage normals/High HP
-Final TAP into Super :stuck_out_tongue:

I want to phrase a hypothetical to help me understand this question better. So basically we start out by designing a generic character who lacks any of the features described in the initial post. Basically what the initial post is asking is: If this generic character was to be given only one of these features, which feature would provide it with the greatest strength to be more competitive against other characters already containing certain amounts of these features.

Does this make sense to you guys or do you think this hypothetical is veering off from what the initial post had in mind?

Well I admit I wasn’t terribly clear in my OP, my point wasn’t so much to limit people to the list I gave but rather to inspire them to discuss tools overall even if they don’t fall into the list I gave.

everyone knows that crouching jab is what fighting games are all about…

Fast walk speed both ways. Great defensively, and offensively. You can retreat easier and put pressure on easier. Also only one character or very few can be the fastest, while many usually have a fast hit confirmable low (which is a strong tool).

here is a related question

if everyone agrees that fast walk speed and good/fast normals are important, why is Chun so bad? I don’t think it’s as simple as EX SBK sucking.

Poor anti airs, limited reversals, wide hurtbox.

Anyways, the point of this discussion was to separate tools from characters and try and discuss the concept of the strength of a too on it’s own merit. Obviously the sum of the parts is far more important than the individual pieces but the whole idea was to discuss the parts themselves without the context of the character’s OTHER tools. I think that a lot of people are missing that point and/or are just unable to try and view the tools on their own merit.

Yes, for the purpose of an argument of what character is the strongest taking a single tool out of context is a bad way to discuss balance or tiers. However I find it somewhat amusing and somewhat sad how hard it is for people to actually think about these things in a more abstract way without the examples of a character itself.

I was hoping to get a discourse going about “what makes fast walk speed good” or “Is an invincible anti air more important than the ability to alter your jump arc?” How does the strength of a single tool stack up in the grand scheme of things to other individual tools.

Seeing as people are having trouble with the concept I’ll propose another question:

As Ryu, if you had to give up ONE move would it be his hadoken or his SRK?